Competing Bills Would End Concealed Weapon License Requirement

[S&WM&P40]

Nobody should be carrying a firearm into the court house. Yes I understand you feel your rights are being suppressed when you can't bring your firearm into a courthouse but a cop can. I just personally feel that a person who has been charged with a felony should not be armed in the court house. If you had family working in the court room would you want to worry about somebody having a fire arm on them when the guilty verdict is handed down?
I feel you should be able to check your weapon at the door of the courthouse, maybe put it in a locker, but not bring it into the courtroom itself. Things like that need to be included in the language of any bill that passes.

Have you read the laws we have now? We are already allowed to carry into a court house by NH law. You check your firearm with the court house rent a cop, who in turn locks it in a locker. All court house shootings that happen now are a result of a POLICE officers firearm being taken away. Disarm everyone across the board.

 

[Jets-Fan in Patriots Land]

By Federal law, a person with a felony conviction cannot legally own a firearm, much less carry it concealed.

This proposed NH law cannot circumvent Federal law.

yeah felony conviction, but if this is their first offense, depending on what law is passed then they could in theory have a fire arm in the courtroom because you are innocent until proven guilty. I never said a convicted felon, just somebody accused of one.

S&WM&P40:
I agree with you, disarm everybody in the courtroom including bailiffs and police. I haven't seen where in the laws it says I can bring a fire arm into a NH court house, but I know for a fact that you have a better understanding of the laws then I do.

Going back and reading RSA 159:19,
I. No person shall knowingly carry a loaded or unloaded pistol, revolver, or firearm or any other deadly weapon as defined in RSA 625:11, V, whether open or concealed or whether licensed or unlicensed, upon the person or within any of the person's possessions owned or within the person's control in a courtroom or area used by a court. Whoever violates the provisions of this paragraph shall be guilty of a class B felony.
II. Firearms may be secured at the entrance to a courthouse by courthouse security personnel.
III. For purposes of paragraph I, ""area used by a court'' means:
(a) In a building dedicated exclusively to court use, the entire building exclusive of the area between the entrance and the courthouse security.

I guess that means you could carry it in, but in the Strafford County Courthouse (I visit frequently) I have seen no visible area or offer to lockup a firearm, and as you walk in the front door there is a sign that clearly reads no weapons allowed in the building.
Maybe if I came in and told them I had a weapon and I wanted to check it they would, or maybe I'd end up prone on the ground and in a little trouble. Either way, I leave the gun locked up in my truck.

 

[S&WM&P40]

yeah felony conviction, but if this is their first offense, depending on what law is passed then they could in theory have a fire arm in the courtroom because you are innocent until proven guilty. I never said a convicted felon, just somebody accused of one.

S&WM&P40:
I agree with you, disarm everybody in the courtroom including bailiffs and police. I haven't seen where in the laws it says I can bring a fire arm into a NH court house, but I know for a fact that you have a better understanding of the laws then I do.

Going back and reading RSA 159:19,
I. No person shall knowingly carry a loaded or unloaded pistol, revolver, or firearm or any other deadly weapon as defined in RSA 625:11, V, whether open or concealed or whether licensed or unlicensed, upon the person or within any of the person's possessions owned or within the person's control in a courtroom or area used by a court. Whoever violates the provisions of this paragraph shall be guilty of a class B felony.
II. Firearms may be secured at the entrance to a courthouse by courthouse security personnel.
III. For purposes of paragraph I, ""area used by a court'' means:
(a) In a building dedicated exclusively to court use, the entire building exclusive of the area between the entrance and the courthouse security.

I guess that means you could carry it in, but in the Strafford County Courthouse (I visit frequently) I have seen no visible area or offer to lockup a firearm, and as you walk in the front door there is a sign that clearly reads no weapons allowed in the building.
Maybe if I came in and told them I had a weapon and I wanted to check it they would, or maybe I'd end up prone on the ground and in a little trouble. Either way, I leave the gun locked up in my truck.

No, what you do is bring in the law posted above and show it to them. Then ask the rent a cop who you should turn it in to IF and when you chose to follow the said law. By follow I mean, should you choose use your right (posted above in the law) to pass off your firearm.

At first you may get the "You can't bring firearms into the court house" you will be arrested crap. That's why I said show them the law and talk to the supervisor and get teh steps. Do not settel for the threats they may try and use to keep you from using your rights under the LAW.

The police chief in my city told me how it would work, after I read the law and asked about it. I cant remember all of it so I wont try and butcher it by posting what I can remember.

 

[snatale42]

They are also trying to pass HB235 "Parking lot law" as they seem to call it. It would make it legal for you to have a firearm in your vehicle on company property. The employer could no longer fire you for having the firearm on their property. But again they are fighting over the wording of the bill. Mostly the supporters of the idea because it again leaves to much open.

Thats the only way to do it, every state needs to have that in place, VA passed that like a year ago because they found the existing law to "create felons" when a parent had to pick there kids up in school, Go to a local govt bldg etc.

 

[Jets-Fan in Patriots Land]

No, what you do is bring in the law posted above and show it to them. Then ask the rent a cop who you should turn it in to IF and when you chose to follow the said law. By follow I mean, should you choose use your right (posted above in the law) to pass off your firearm.

At first you may get the "You can't bring firearms into the court house" you will be arrested crap. That's why I said show them the law and talk to the supervisor and get teh steps. Do not settel for the threats they may try and use to keep you from using your rights under the LAW.

If it was just me then maybe I would do this. Considering my wife is a young attorney just starting her carrier I'd rather not kick up the dirt. Maybe after she leaves the job to go private practice in a year.

Starting a **** storm with the 90 year old sherifs deputies at the courthouse isn't worth the negative effect to my wife's carrier

 

[S&WM&P40]

If it was just me then maybe I would do this. Considering my wife is a young attorney just starting her carrier I'd rather not kick up the dirt. Maybe after she leaves the job to go private practice in a year.

Starting a **** storm with the 90 year old sherifs deputies at the courthouse isn't worth the negative effect to my wife's carrier

How would it effect her? Following the law would have a effect on her carrier?

 

[Jets-Fan in Patriots Land]

How would it effect her? Following the law would have a effect on her carrier?

In reality, yes it would. Having a confrontation with the deputy would most certainly effect my wife's carrier. Lawyers, judges and the NH legal system is a very close community. If I have a problem with a deputy at the court house, trying to do something that I legally have the right to, but they politically don't agree with could and most likely would have an effect on my wife's carrer. I'm not saying that it is right, just the reality that we live in.
No sense in chumming the waters you are swimming in, especially in this economy where there are very limited numbers of jobs and more young lawyers not practicing law than ones who are.

Once again, its not about the legal issue, its a political one.

 

[Jets-Fan in Patriots Land]

HB 330 passed

BTW, HB 330 passed. Because in the wording of it, it says "Effective Date. This act shall take effect upon its passage." Does that mean it is effective now or does it have to get signed by the governor first? How long can he let it sit on his desk before he has to do something?

Edit:
Actually I've only found one source that says it passed, and its a college news paper so I think they might have gotten it wrong. Any updates? http://www.keeneequinox.com/mobile/news/carrying-on-campus-1.2520043

 

[S&WM&P40]

In reality, yes it would. Having a confrontation with the deputy would most certainly effect my wife's carrier. Lawyers, judges and the NH legal system is a very close community. If I have a problem with a deputy at the court house, trying to do something that I legally have the right to, but they politically don't agree with could and most likely would have an effect on my wife's carrer. I'm not saying that it is right, just the reality that we live in.
No sense in chumming the waters you are swimming in, especially in this economy where there are very limited numbers of jobs and more young lawyers not practicing law than ones who are.

Once again, its not about the legal issue, its a political one.

Sometimes you just have to go balls to the wall. Grab the great white shark and fight till it backs down.

Well anyway, you got me thinking with the whole court house thing so I did some calling today.

I called the court in my city and asked to speak to a court house baliff. Well the uptight know it all clerk took it upon herself to ask me what I was calling about. I told her "RSA 159:19 item two" she snapped back and said "They would not know what that is." I told her their whole job is court house sercrity! How would they not know about a law such as this. She said "What's it about and what do you want to know?" I read it off to her and she flipped! At this point I was doing all I could from laughing my ass off at her. She said "why would you want to do that? God, if you want a make a scene" ect... At this point I started to laugh, I said "I didn't write the law, I'm just wishing to know what steps I need to take to follow it!!" Well little miss know it all again felt she could answer this one. She said you just bring it in and hand it to them. I again asked to speak to them, so she passed me off.

Some 70 year old guy came on and told me how it worked. He said you just bring it in and hand it to them. Then he said something that shocked me! He said to get it back you have to pass a BC (background check) they also run the firearm to make sure it's not stolen. They also run a check to see if you have any PO's (Protective orders) or any other orders placed on you.

If you pass all that crap then they return your property to you.

I called Concord to speak to the head ASO but he was out. I'm going to call again tomorrow to speak to him, before I decide to contact a firearm lawyer and or the NRA. I'm not going to let them get away with not following state law.

The Manchester PD did something just like this, someone took it to court and the judge told them they could no longer do such a thing.

We shall see I'll keep you posted.

 

[Jets-Fan in Patriots Land]

best of luck

Best of luck with that, I really do hope you can make a change. I'm usually not one to back down from a fight, but as you can see from your conversation it most likely would not have gone well for me. In the political boys club that is the network of lawyers word travels fast. I'm just not willing to jeopardize my wife's carrier over something this small, because quite honestly I don't care about not being able to carry into the court house anyway.
With the lack of knowledge of the laws by the court house security who's to say that when I tell them I have a firearm on my person, and I plan on handing it over to them I don't end up kissing the carpet. Granted I might get a settlement out of it if something like that happened but why bother?
Plus knowing there are other people out there that can challenge this without putting my family in the middle makes it easier for me to sit back and watch.

 

[S&WM&P40]

Best of luck with that, I really do hope you can make a change. I'm usually not one to back down from a fight, but as you can see from your conversation it most likely would not have gone well for me. In the political boys club that is the network of lawyers word travels fast. I'm just not willing to jeopardize my wife's carrier over something this small,

because quite honestly I don't care about not being able to carry into the court house anyway.

With the lack of knowledge of the laws by the court house security who's to say that when I tell them I have a firearm on my person, and I plan on handing it over to them I don't end up kissing the carpet. Granted I might get a settlement out of it if something like that happened but why bother?
Plus knowing there are other people out there that can challenge this without putting my family in the middle makes it easier for me to sit back and watch.

Nor do I. Will I ever have a need to carry into a court house? More then likely not. It's the principle of the thing more then anything. The law is the law, you nor I wrote it we are just told to follow it. I cant stand by and watch while they try and circumvent the law with some back door policy.

You let them do it once on a issue you could careless about, the next thing you know they get the idea this kind of thing is ok. Were would it stop? Issues we do care about would start to fall to this same backdoor style of doing things.

If you don't like the laws VOTE! Push to have the laws changed, don't just decide not to follow them.

 

[S&WM&P40]

I called the lawyer today and had a nice chat with her. We would not be sueing. All I want to do is overturn the policy not sue the courts. She said what we would do is get a hearing to overturn the policy.

I'm going to get a copy of the policy and send it to her and go from there. She said it's 200 dollars an hour. But if a group of people got together it could be split up.

We shall see what happens.

 

[Jets-Fan in Patriots Land]

Looks like a step in the right direction. Even if the Gov. veto's bill there should be enough votes to override it.
Link Removed

 

[imrambi]

Some 70 year old guy came on and told me how it worked. He said you just bring it in and hand it to them. Then he said something that shocked me! He said to get it back you have to pass a BC (background check) they also run the firearm to make sure it's not stolen. They also run a check to see if you have any PO's (Protective orders) or any other orders placed on you.

If they run a NICS check, that is illegal per case law filled by E.F. Nappen:

For more information:
NEWS - E.F. Nappen Attorney at Law, PC

 

[S&WM&P40]

If they run a NICS check, that is illegal per case law filled by E.F. Nappen:

For more information:
NEWS - E.F. Nappen Attorney at Law, PC

They run a NCIC and Triple I check on you.

 

[S&WM&P40]

So we are moving ahead with a Right to Know Suit,so that this information will be available to the public. I'll keep you posted.