CCW Permit Denied With Expungement


J

JohnMas

New member
I am in Indiana, they recently passed a law to have your criminal record expunged, if old enough and all rights restored, including firearms carry permit rights.. etc..
Over 30 years ago I was convicted of a class D felony for receiving stolen property, I have since had no blemishes, I think 1 speeding ticket and an upstanding law abiding citizen.
I paid a lawyer last year and we appeared before a judge requesting the expungement of my criminal record and he granted it, the document restores all my rights, including firearms, it even states on the judges order, spelling out gun rights. My lawyer told me to wait about a month and apply for my carry permit, I did and after 5-6 months it came back rejecting my application for answering no if I've ever been convicted of a crime (as advised by lawyer) and lying on the application. I then filed for an appeal, they sent a notice of hearing for me and spelled out the reason was for a conviction (the one I got expunged).
I went to the state police office with papers in hand ordering the expungement thinking it's not cleared out of the system and she looked at them and told me Indiana state police is not honoring the judges order and following federal law, as in their eyes, I am still a convicted felon, because all the expungement does is hide my record, but open to law enforcement to view, so, I have a local judge ordering my rights back and the state police are saying they are following federal guidelines...
This is kind of confusing to me, look at Colorado and marijuana, against federal law, but within state law, so it's ok.
My lawyer wants to fight this conflict..etc... but I don't know if I want to get into a drug out fight with the state police, hampering any and all my future chances of getting the permit.
Any suggestions or help would be appreciated.
 

the advice that you get here is worth what you paid for it
if you want your permit you'll need to listen to what your lawyer is telling you
 
if you don't fight it now, what makes you think it will change in the future?

In many states, expungement or sealing of an arrest record or a conviction does not prevent law enforcement from access to or use of the record for purposes of firearms permits. But you'll never know the law in your state unless you challenge it.
 
Just as a follow up...if you lived in Virginia getting your firearm rights restored and getting a ccw is a no brainer.
 
Howdy John,

If having a ccW permit is worth the fight to you then fight the system.

It really sucks to have done something stupid when you were young and then having to pay for that mistake the rest of your life.

Paul
 
Stengun said:
Howdy John,

If having a ccW permit is worth the fight to you then fight the system.

It really sucks to have done something stupid when you were young and then having to pay for that mistake the rest of your life.

Paul
Click to expand...
And Paul? We final agree. There are people who had two DUI's (2nd a felony) when they were young and get denied even though they completed rehab and haven't touched a drink in decades.
 
John Mas was the conviction in Indiana? If not you need to have it dissappear from the conviction state. I too did the same thing here in MA when I was 17 but I got a pardon from the governor. That cleared it up so I could get me permit.

Sent from my SM-N900V using USA Carry mobile app
 
I would encourage you to fight for your rights but the attorney fees might get expensive. Even if they know that you will eventually win the cops could just be trying to delay your permit and make it too expensive. If you can get the Second Amendment Foundation or another 2A group to take up your cause this will change the entire balance of the equation.
 
No confusion. The question is really very simple. Have you ever been convicted of a crime? The answer is "yes, but find attached my documentation of expungement."
.
The Indiana wording is...
.
On July 1, 2013, Indiana’s new expungement law (House Enrolled Act 1482) went into effect. Under this new law, individuals who meet certain criteria will be able to expunge their criminal records. Expungement is the destruction or sealing of criminal records so that they are only available in limited circumstances. Under Indiana’s new expungement law, expunged records are sealed and may only be released by court order or to a law enforcement officer acting in the course of their official duty.
.
A LEO doing a background check is performing an official duty thus the records are available to him. If you were convicted of a crime the answer to the question is "yes." If your lawyer advised you o not tell the truth he gets sanctioned by the state bar. It is an ethics violation. Further, it's legal malpractice... deviation from a standard of practice that the lawyers should have known by his education and training to be truthful, legal and correct.
 
BC1 said:
No confusion. The question is really very simple. Have you ever been convicted of a crime? The answer is "yes, but find attached my documentation of expungement."
.
The Indiana wording is...
.
On July 1, 2013, Indiana’s new expungement law (House Enrolled Act 1482) went into effect. Under this new law, individuals who meet certain criteria will be able to expunge their criminal records. Expungement is the destruction or sealing of criminal records so that they are only available in limited circumstances. Under Indiana’s new expungement law, expunged records are sealed and may only be released by court order or to a law enforcement officer acting in the course of their official duty.
.
A LEO doing a background check is performing an official duty thus the records are available to him. If you were convicted of a crime the answer to the question is "yes." If your lawyer advised you o not tell the truth he gets sanctioned by the state bar. It is an ethics violation. Further, it's legal malpractice... deviation from a standard of practice that the lawyers should have known by his education and training to be truthful, legal and correct.
Click to expand...

Sometimes the forms can be conflicted. The 4473, the form everyone fills out at an FFL, asks if you have ever been convicted of a felony or adjudged insane. The answer to give on the form is "no" even if convicted or adjudged if your rights have been restored...all of your rights. The exceptions are on the back of the form. The Virginia State Police form SP65 asks the same questions...you are to answer no under the similar exceptions. In Virginia if your rights are restored you must notify the State Police by faxing all relevant documents before trying to purchase a firearm. But even after you send the proper documentation they then tell you to go try to buy a firearm. You will most certainly be denied immediately but a follow up phone call will get the ball rolling at the State Police Firearm Transaction Center. Thereafter delays will come in the form of a few minutes to perhaps an hour. Now for the ccw permit application in Virginia you are again asked that question, ever been convicted etal. In this case you are to answer "yes" and provide the documents showing your rights restored. It can be confusing to say the least...answer no here but yes to the same question over here...
 
I think I would try and get a Pardon. Pardons restore ALL rights to the individual. Pardons wipe the slate clean.
 
I fought a pointing a firearm at a person charge a few years ago,I could have taken a plea deal but it would mean I was admitting I did something to something someone was just saying had happened.
Yes it cost me some money to my Attorney,and yes I had to get dragged through my states in justice system for around seven Months.

But in the end a jury found me not guilty. I kept my CCW and fire arms and Ammo.

I know your deal is not the same,but I still think you need to fight them bums in your state and get your CCW.
 
rifleshooter474 said:
I fought a pointing a firearm at a person charge a few years ago,I could have taken a plea deal but it would mean I was admitting I did something to something someone was just saying had happened.
Yes it cost me some money to my Attorney,and yes I had to get dragged through my states in justice system for around seven Months.

But in the end a jury found me not guilty. I kept my CCW and fire arms and Ammo.
Click to expand...
Bravo! "If forced to choose between peace and righteousness I choose righteousness." T. Roosevelt.
 
apvbguy said:
the advice that you get here is worth what you paid for it
if you want your permit you'll need to listen to what your lawyer is telling you
Click to expand...

Doing what your attorney tells you...give me more money! The exact same thing happened to me. Sixty years after a conviction of a minor class D felony, expunged, then denied a permit and the lawyer knew that Indiana wouldn't give me a permit! $750 later he now suggests a pardon or reduced to a misdemeanor. Now why should I trust this lawyer? Or any lawyer? I believe some lawyers will take your money even though they know what will happen! That deserves disciplinary action against the lawyer and I'm thinking of filing a complaint with the Supreme Court of IN.
 
Actually on Indiana state police website for carry permit under FAQs it says You do NOT have to list expunged convictions.

I cleaned my record & waiting for it to be removed from system (most is gone except 1 as of yesterday) & I'm going to try & get my carry permit as I was under the impression all my civil rights are restored.
I will be pretty p*ssed if I cant, & will try to fight it. As my felonies are all non violent minor felonies & Indiana changed the law this year & my felonies are now considered misdemeanors if 1 where to be arrested for it today.
 
The wording now is "Have you ever been convicted of a crime that has not been expunged by the courts" This is paraphrased.. The only problem is that federal law does not recognize Indiana's expungement law due to clause that they can look back on your record if you committed another crime. So if you did by chance get your CC permit, and if you got pulled over and caught with a weapon, chances are you may still go to jail.
 
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