CCW for the Blind

[K-Products.US]

A dilemma:

This is a new one for me but I have a individual that is legally blind that works with the police Juvenal division that wants to have his own Conceal Carry permit.

I have been informed that there is no Ohio law that says he cannot have the permit as long as he passes both written and firing exams.

I'm not really wanting to work with him but then again am I subject to suit for discrimination of the handicapped?

Thoughts?????

 

[N R A]

I do not see a problem (pun intended)

Run, don't walk away from that.

Call your range insurance provider, and if hey sign off on it, precede with caution. I would suggest a closed range, just he two of you, maybe one other range officer you trust.

Still, helping a bind guy get legal use of handgun, is a huge kettle of worms, attorney wise.

 

[MDT]

A fellow instructor In my area had a student with visual issues. With a few agreed upon rules, she completed the shooting portion and did quite well. The written test was read to her and her responses were recorded and scored. She passed the class, impressed the group and is good to go. Xisabilities are strange. Lose on of your senses and others compensate. Offer to ha ve them take the classroom part of the course with a group but opt to do the range qualification in a private session.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using USA Carry mobile app

 

[RossA]

Check your state laws closely, and if possible get something in writing from the state police or whoever runs the CCW program in your state.
In some states, the student has to do virtually everything for himself on the range, like loading mags, loading/unloading gun, etc. If that's the case, your student may not be able to pass that portion of the test.
In some states, there are rules which allow the instructor to perform certain things for "impaired" students, such as pulling back the slide for an elderly person with arthritis and poor grip strength.
Be sure that you know what your state requires, and hopefully whatever the state tells you they will put in writing so you have some backup.
Of course, the problem may resolve itself on the range. If the student is truly blind, it would be very difficult for him to score very high on a target that he can't see if you are not allowed to point the gun for him. If he fails, he fails, just like anyone else.

 

[tlglenn]

Someone who is, "Legally blind" could have perfect vision, but a limited field of view.

Btw, even if your state allows it, the student shouldn't be aided by the instructor on the range during a final qualification test if that same aid wouldn't be available to the student off the range in a self-defense situation.

 

[NavyLCDR]

In some states, the student has to do virtually everything for himself on the range, like loading mags, loading/unloading gun, etc. If that's the case, your student may not be able to pass that portion of the test.

And to think we had to field strip, reassemble and function test our M-16s blindfolded in Army Basic Training....

 

[RossA]

Someone who is, "Legally blind" could have perfect vision, but a limited field of view.

Btw, even if your state allows it, the student shouldn't be aided by the instructor on the range during a final qualification test if that same aid wouldn't be available to the student off the range in a self-defense situation.

Some states may not allow the instructor to make that call. I have heard instructors say that they are required to make "reasonable accommodations" for students by state policy. Don't know the laws, procedures, etc. of all states so I can't comment on whether that's true or not.
Hence, the advice to contact the powers that be in your state and hopefully get their advice in writing.

 

[JimPage]

Aside::::

Why is there a set of braille instructions at my drive up ATM?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Aside::::

Why is there a set of braille instructions at my drive up ATM?

For the people who can't read English? :lol:

 

[N R A]

I had a guy that came in and wanted to register for CC class, but he was just a little odd, so i turned him down. He could see fine, but sometimes the little voice inside says walk away from this one. A blind guy (legal or otherwise ) is one i would walk away from.

 

[NavyLCDR]

A blind guy (legal or otherwise ) is one i would walk away from.

Because blind people have no right to self defense?

 

[N R A]

Dont buy snow shoes to cross a unfrozen lake. It is your right to do so, but as a contingency plan, be ready to swim.

In my state, one has to take and pass an eye exam, or show a DL that is evidence of passing an eye test.

The certificate I give to students that pass says "Who does not suffer readily discernible physical infirmity that prevents the person from safely handling a handgun". This standard is not mine, it is required by my state.

Even so, if my state would allow a blind guy to have a CC permit, I would balk at teaching him the class.

Having a handicap does not mean a pass because one cannot do something. It is not a no child left behind public school debocle.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Dont buy snow shoes to cross a unfrozen lake. It is your right to do so, but as a contingency plan, be ready to swim.

In my state, one has to take and pass an eye exam, or show a DL that is evidence of passing an eye test.

The certificate I give to students that pass says "Who does not suffer readily discernible physical infirmity that prevents the person from safely handling a handgun". This standard is not mine, it is required by my state.

Even so, if my state would allow a blind guy to have a CC permit, I would balk at teaching him the class.

Having a handicap does not mean a pass because one cannot do something. It is not a no child left behind public school debocle.

I'm glad that my state does not deny the blind the right to self defense with a firearm. I find it disgusting that you would balk at teaching them the class if they could qualify for the permit in every respect except for meeting an eye test - if the eye test was not required by law. I've known blind people that I would trust much more with a firearm than probably most of the rest of the general population.

 

[K-Products.US]

Thanks, for all of the advice..... I think I will try to pass on this individual, too much liability even after the course if he should pass.

 

[N R A]

I'm glad that my state does not deny the blind the right to self defense with a firearm. I find it disgusting that you would balk at teaching them the class if they could qualify for the permit in every respect except for meeting an eye test - if the eye test was not required by law. I've known blind people that I would trust much more with a firearm than probably most of the rest of the general population.

It is not just the student, it is the team of litigators that could pop up should the student get involved in a deadly force case. However in my jurisdiction i am prevented from offering someone with a limitation such as blindness, certification. Iowa i think certifies blind people. Any NRA class will do. First Step Pistol, and the guy with coke bottle glasses is good to go.

At what point does public safety trump personal rights? Do we let 106 year olds drive? Do we let 6th graders watch porn? Both these two analogies want that "right" , so do we let them?

If i were to go blind, i would like to keep my gun collection but i would not want to pack a Glock on a mass transit bus

 

[NavyLCDR]

At what point does public safety trump personal rights? Do we let 106 year olds drive? Do we let 6th graders watch porn? Both these two analogies want that "right" , so do we let them?

There are some many things wrong with that comparison....

1. Who determines who is "safe" to carry a firearm and who isn't? The government? The instructor? Why is a blind person automatically a danger to the public if they are carrying a gun just because they are blind

2. Does your state also have age limits on driver's licenses as well? Does any state have age limits on driver's licenses where the state says, "No way, we don't care how many tests you can pass?" Last time I checked if a 106 year old can continue to pass the required tests, they get their license and I don't have a problem with that.

3. Where do we stop with the public safety crap? If a 45 year old is at high risk for a heart attack due to high blood pressure, high cholesterol, obesity, smoking and family history do we say, "No driver's license for you pal, you are at much higher risk to have a heart attack while driving and we just can't take that chance with the 'public safety'".

4. Is driving a right or a privilege? Is watching porn a right or a privilege?

5. Even if we define driving or watching porn as a right rather than a privilege, which amendment to the US Constitution protects those rights? Last time I checked the 2nd Amendment does not end with the words, "unless you are blind or somehow otherwise not qualified."

If it is the law that you can't grant a certificate to a blind person, that's fine. We need to work to change the law. You don't feel like a blind person can be safe carrying a firearm, or worse yet should be prohibited by law from carrying a firearm - now we have a serious disagreement.

 

[NavyLCDR]

This is what is absolutely hilarious about Glock20's state and his reluctance to certify a blind student if there were no eyesight requirement for the Concealed Handgun Permit. Nebraska is a no license required open carry state. The ONLY thing the CHP does in Nebraska is offer the person the option of concealing the gun if they want to! Right now in Nebraska there is no law prohibiting a blind person from carrying a gun - they just can't conceal it. :lol: But Glock20 would be worried about litigation by certifying a person to hide a gun vice open carry it. Although there is no preemption in Nebraska law for open carry, so maybe Glock20 does business in a municipality that has regulated open carry more than state law does.

 

[N R A]

I was once a gun dealer and i would also refuse to sell a gun to a blind person. As a private citizen i would not sell a gun to someone incapable of following safe gun handeling procedures.

 

[N R A]

I also would not throw the keys to a hellcat to a 16 year old. Prudent comes to mind.

 

[LarryOKC]

We were just talking about this, this weekend. Test was verbal and when it came to the course of fire the lane was empty just the instructor and a RSO they hung a line to the lane lines with a bell at the end. Jiggled the line he shot and was able to hit paper and reload was no problem..