Canton, OH Stop Revisited w/ Police Trainer


FloridaBlue

New member
TekGreg, Yea I know it's going to take some time and now that I am back in Ohio I am going to find ways to get involved on helping that law get changed or totally removed.
 

PaxMentis

New member
In Ohio, our CCW classes were told to NEVER buy one of the CCW badges as they can be considered "Impersonating a Law Enforcement Officer" and get you in a lot more trouble than the need to inform. No one in Ohio is supposed to be flashing a badge except actual law enforcement officers (LEO).

I notice you are pretty new, so I will be gentle.

CCW Badges are pretty much a running joke here, since "we don' need no stinking badges"...

G50 will put in a mention whenever there is a place into which one can possibly be squeezed...

Having one would be pretty hard to make stick as impersonating, not to mention that MOST officers would be so busy laughing that they would probably screw up the arest.
 

Terminal Lance

New member
As lame and ridiculous as cc badges are, you can not be charged with impersonating an officer unless you use it on a police uniform, identify yourself as a police officer, or the badge itself says something about police
 

TekGreg

New member
What a bunch of bull. 25% failure rate in business? I'd love to know where he gets that stat. i never had a work force where 25% of my employees failed at their job. This LEO has some serious anger issues. He couldn't keep a job at Burger King with that behavior. Look at that video again. this isn't some guy having a bad day. This is an accomplished lunatic. People don't go that far over the edge just once. This is part of his personality. He needs help.

BC1, Corporate employees are not watched as closely as LEO's or other public employees. Corporate employees are not always fired when found to be "failures." As a matter of fact, I and my family have worked in many of the Fortune 500 and seen people in the same chair for many, many years that could definitely be considered a "failure" at their job, but for one reason or another, no one ever got around to removing them from the company. I would say their waste of corporate time, resources, morale and synergy would definitely still qualify them as a "failure" and I can personally attest to an even greater than 25% rate in some corporations larger than 7,000 people.

This is just a personal observation, but I'm sure if others look at it in this light, they can see "failures" in other businesses and corporations for what they truly are.
 

TekGreg

New member
Not so much.

It depends ENTIRELY upon where you are. There are places (like Chicago, New Orleans and Philadelphia) where a Harless can not only get by, he can PROSPER. If he's in the right environment, a cop can shoot an unarmed man, lie about it, get found out, and still get promoted. It happened in Chicago with Officer Alvin Weems. He murdered a guy and got promoted to detective. He recently ate his own gun... YEARS after the crime, and while an active cop.

Don't kid yourself about "bad apples" getting "weeded out". It took Weems "weeding" HIMSELF out.

Deanimator, I believe in most jurisdictions Police Chiefs are appointed by the Mayor or the City Counsel. This means that a corrupt force most likely flows from the top down and therefore starts from the elected officials. Were I in one of these jurisdictions, I would make sure I was voting against ALL of them. Secondly, letters and e-mail to the FBI to investigate the police corruption is the only chance to get something done legally. Also maybe the ACLU could push for action on the part of the FBI to clean out the [email protected] However, nothing gets done until someone starts the ball rolling and the complaints start piling up on someone's desk that can do something. Yes, it can and does happen. Now what will the people do to stop it?

Another quote from Edmund Burke: "All that’s necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing."
 

TekGreg

New member
I notice you are pretty new, so I will be gentle.

CCW Badges are pretty much a running joke here, since "we don' need no stinking badges"...

G50 will put in a mention whenever there is a place into which one can possibly be squeezed...

Having one would be pretty hard to make stick as impersonating, not to mention that MOST officers would be so busy laughing that they would probably screw up the arest.

Ah, got it! I'll keep an eye out for G50 and the running "badge" joke from now on. Thanks for the heads up! :wacko:
 

TekGreg

New member
As lame and ridiculous as cc badges are, you can not be charged with impersonating an officer unless you use it on a police uniform, identify yourself as a police officer, or the badge itself says something about police

Just passing along what our LEO trainers told us. Actually, they were not so worried about our misrepresentation of the badge, but a bystander can claim that a badge was presented and that the holder claimed to be LEO. If you own a badge, that claim then has to be investigated; if you don't own one, then the claim was obviously a lie.
 

whitetiger

New member
Sometime the police dept has bad leaders from the top who say things and cover up bad things and if they do this for a long time the entire force is out of control. So in some towns it 90% of the force and only the new cops are doing what they learned in the academy. till they are retrained by the older cops then they are bad too, sometimes the fbi gets the police charter taken away if it's a small town and the couny can cover it or the city get a oversight review and training mandate it has happen. I wished the fbi did more.
Do they even have a full time dept to cover bad police forces. prob not!
that dept would be the ones who for real serve and protect. it seems the policeforces just serve and protect
city GOV, the kings guard.
 

TekGreg

New member
Sometime the police dept has bad leaders from the top who say things and cover up bad things and if they do this for a long time the entire force is out of control. So in some towns it 90% of the force and only the new cops are doing what they learned in the academy. till they are retrained by the older cops then they are bad too, sometimes the fbi gets the police charter taken away if it's a small town and the couny can cover it or the city get a oversight review and training mandate it has happen. I wished the fbi did more.
Do they even have a full time dept to cover bad police forces. prob not!
that dept would be the ones who for real serve and protect. it seems the policeforces just serve and protect
city GOV, the kings guard.

The FBI won't do anything about things the public doesn't complain about. I mean, if the public doesn't care that their police force is corrupt, why should the Fed waste resources cleaning it up? If complaint after complaint hits their office and the ACLU gets on the news complaining, then it looks bad if the FBI doesn't do something. Someone has to start the ball rolling.
 

rifleshooter474

New member
The FBI won't do anything about things the public doesn't complain about. I mean, if the public doesn't care that their police force is corrupt, why should the Fed waste resources cleaning it up? If complaint after complaint hits their office and the ACLU gets on the news complaining, then it looks bad if the FBI doesn't do something. Someone has to start the ball rolling.

Thanks you gave me a good idea and I drafted a letter to the Oklahoma ACUL this morning regarding my arrest and treatment by the Tulsa Police Officer Kristy Maxwell Allen on July 16 2010.
 

BC1

,
BC1, Corporate employees are not watched as closely as LEO's or other public employees. Corporate employees are not always fired when found to be "failures." As a matter of fact, I and my family have worked in many of the Fortune 500 and seen people in the same chair for many, many years that could definitely be considered a "failure" at their job, but for one reason or another, no one ever got around to removing them from the company. I would say their waste of corporate time, resources, morale and synergy would definitely still qualify them as a "failure" and I can personally attest to an even greater than 25% rate in some corporations larger than 7,000 people.

This is just a personal observation, but I'm sure if others look at it in this light, they can see "failures" in other businesses and corporations for what they truly are.
Yeah but we're talking about something much more than a person not being a good employee. Sure there's lot's of poor workers, just call any customer support department. But we shouldn't be comparing that with a bonifide lunatic who is out of control and dangerous. This guy is much more than just a bad employee, he's disturbed. 25% of the work force is not comprised of such people.
 

Deanimator

New member
The FBI won't do anything about things the public doesn't complain about.
In places like Chicago, that's the ONLY thing they've EVER known.

It's like North Korea, if North Koreans could watch or listen to anything they wanted and could come and go as they please, but STILL chose to be slaves.

A LOT of Chicagoans that I've known, including relatives, are seemingly PROUD of the corruption, and simply can't IMAGINE living some place where you're WON'T be robbed by the police. For them, out of control police criminality is the NORM.

On the other hand, you have people in small towns who simply REFUSE to believe that a home invasion ring could POSSIBLY operate for YEARS, INSIDE of a police department. NO amount of evidence will convince them. Cops just WOULDN'T do such things and it's simply IMPOSSIBLE.
 

rifleshooter474

New member
In places like Chicago, that's the ONLY thing they've EVER known.

It's like North Korea, if North Koreans could watch or listen to anything they wanted and could come and go as they please, but STILL chose to be slaves.

A LOT of Chicagoans that I've known, including relatives, are seemingly PROUD of the corruption, and simply can't IMAGINE living some place where you're WON'T be robbed by the police. For them, out of control police criminality is the NORM.

On the other hand, you have people in small towns who simply REFUSE to believe that a home invasion ring could POSSIBLY operate for YEARS, INSIDE of a police department. NO amount of evidence will convince them. Cops just WOULDN'T do such things and it's simply IMPOSSIBLE.

This very item of people thinking the cops can do no wrong, was my one real fear when my case went to the jury trial. Thank God they got it right and I was found not guilty.

Later when the wife and I got our sit down with the Tulsa Oklahoma Police Mingo Vally Div. Officers and Officer Kristy Maxwell Allen. I told her after the jury found me not guilty, they asked the Judge Cliford Smith to allow them to shake my hand.
Allen replied Quote: I don't care how many of the jury shook your hand the Jury got it wrong.

Just shows when they close the ranks it's them against you, nothing will make them admit they were wrong about anything.
 

Deserteagle

New member
Just a guess here, but maybe people fail to believe because more than 1-3% of their police encounters have been with assholes. In addition to being a normal guy who occasionally gets a speeding ticket, I spent many years as a Volunteer EMT and Fire Chief: I've worked with and dealt with a few cops, ranging from the very finest to true sadistic psychopaths.

Based on my lifetime of observation, I do not believe the 1-3% figure. Maybe once, but that was in the past. I've known some really fine Officers; most of them have retired or are about to. My best friend since Jr. High put in 30 years as a King County Mountie, and he's very glad to be out of it.

Police are the enforcement tools of the ruling class, and what that ruling class wants today is not Officer Friendly.

I am glad we have no "duty to declare" in my state, but I believe the linking of CPL to Driver's License and Vehicle Registration is done in hopes of causing a few violent events that can be used by the anti-freedom forces of the ruling class.

Your opinion, my opinion, and everyone else' opinions of police are based on a lot more than the actual police officers themselves. Many people think more than 3% of cops are assholes because they have heard stories from other people... stories that are biased and filled with emotions. Opinions of police are also based on what we see in the media, the more stories and videos you hear about bad cops, the less you think of them, and when you do think of police, those stories are in the back of your head. Opinions are also based on emotions, like being mad about a speeding ticket and deciding the cop is an ******* because you dont think speeding is a big issue, or maybe you didnt like having to get searched.

Ill say it once again, opinions we have towards the police are based on a lot more than the actual police officers themselves.

Any ignorant person can say, "look at this video of the cop beating this guy up, and I heard from a friend that he got a DUI when he wasnt that drunk, and I heard another story on the news, and I didnt like how I was treated when I was arrested for fighting in public, therefore based on these stories, all cops are bad".
I got a question: Those are some neat stories there, but what about the thousands of other police-citizen interactions every day that do not end with bad feelings or a video for the news? Thats because most cops do their job right, and are out there doing good work.
 

TekGreg

New member
Yeah but we're talking about something much more than a person not being a good employee. Sure there's lot's of poor workers, just call any customer support department. But we shouldn't be comparing that with a bonifide lunatic who is out of control and dangerous. This guy is much more than just a bad employee, he's disturbed. 25% of the work force is not comprised of such people.

Well, I was only comparing people that didn't do their jobs and were fire-able - to me, these are all failures. But to be fair, the comparison wouldn't truly be compete unless we placed guns in the hands of everyone in corporate America and allowed them the ability to enforce, say, a balance sheet, by pulling a gun and taking someone to jail! It's a ridiculous premise, I know, but I bet we would find a lot more "bona fide lunatics," as you put it.
 

TekGreg

New member
Thanks you gave me a good idea and I drafted a letter to the Oklahoma ACUL this morning regarding my arrest and treatment by the Tulsa Police Officer Kristy Maxwell Allen on July 16 2010.

Hey, Great! I hope they can do something to help! Good luck on that course of action. :biggrin:
 

TekGreg

New member
In places like Chicago, that's the ONLY thing they've EVER known.

It's like North Korea, if North Koreans could watch or listen to anything they wanted and could come and go as they please, but STILL chose to be slaves.

A LOT of Chicagoans that I've known, including relatives, are seemingly PROUD of the corruption, and simply can't IMAGINE living some place where you're WON'T be robbed by the police. For them, out of control police criminality is the NORM.

On the other hand, you have people in small towns who simply REFUSE to believe that a home invasion ring could POSSIBLY operate for YEARS, INSIDE of a police department. NO amount of evidence will convince them. Cops just WOULDN'T do such things and it's simply IMPOSSIBLE.

Absolutely Correct.

North Korea is a Communist State - I have no experience living in such a environment so I can't really comment about how to change their state of affairs.

It sounds like Chicagoans don't wish to change their corrupt police force and therefore the only recourse for those not wishing to be abused is to move. Since Illinois has never been gun-friendly anyway, this may be the only state where fighting may not be the best course of action and moving a good idea.

Obviously, I was making the point of view of citizenry that wished to live in a non-corrupt, friendly city that got along with a law-abiding and law-enforcing police force. If this isn't the case, then you as a citizen might have to re-evaluate if you wish to continue to live where you are.
 

TekGreg

New member
Your opinion, my opinion, and everyone else' opinions of police are based on a lot more than the actual police officers themselves. Many people think more than 3% of cops are assholes because they have heard stories from other people... stories that are biased and filled with emotions. Opinions of police are also based on what we see in the media, the more stories and videos you hear about bad cops, the less you think of them, and when you do think of police, those stories are in the back of your head. Opinions are also based on emotions, like being mad about a speeding ticket and deciding the cop is an ******* because you dont think speeding is a big issue, or maybe you didnt like having to get searched.

Ill say it once again, opinions we have towards the police are based on a lot more than the actual police officers themselves.

Any ignorant person can say, "look at this video of the cop beating this guy up, and I heard from a friend that he got a DUI when he wasnt that drunk, and I heard another story on the news, and I didnt like how I was treated when I was arrested for fighting in public, therefore based on these stories, all cops are bad".
I got a question: Those are some neat stories there, but what about the thousands of other police-citizen interactions every day that do not end with bad feelings or a video for the news? Thats because most cops do their job right, and are out there doing good work.

DesertEagle, you're absolutely correct! Emotions always come into play. My wife and I literally just got done watching a video on TruTV (It was one of the shows that aires dashboard cams from police cars) where a trooper pulled a guy over for a speeding ticket. After issuing the ticket, The driver went completely ballistic on the officer, screaming, cussing, flailing at him in his vehicle, tore the ticket up and threw it at the officer. The officer remained completely unemotional in the face of this barrage of insults, which clearly qualified as Assault on a Peace Officer, and then he told the driver he needed to pick up the pieces of ticket or he would be cited for littering. The driver got out and kept up the tirade while picking up the pieces, screaming and cussing at the top of his lungs while the officer just stood there. The driver got back in his car and tore off down the road while the officer simply watched him and offered a "Bye" as he disappeared. The officer was the epitome of calm and collected. He had absorbed all of the driver's abuse without blinking an eye, but these types of videos don't really entertain the public because it's not the officer AGAINST a civilian, it's a civilian abusing an officer, which we don't like to acknowledge happens every single day.

Something you said rings true, though, DesertEagle. A psychology teacher of mine told a class one time that we make choices emotionally and then justify them logically. What this means in this case is that a lot of people will decide whether or not they are going to like law enforcement or not (emotional decision) and then they will start gathering evidence to only support their decision - only watch the bad police videos if they hate police, etc. It's obvious I'm an LEO supporter, but I embrace problems like this because I believe they happen and they need to be dealt with. I think if we look fairly at both sides of the issue, we will see LEO's as humans and maybe find better ways to deal with them in real life situations.
 

Deserteagle

New member
A psychology teacher of mine told a class one time that we make choices emotionally and then justify them logically. What this means in this case is that a lot of people will decide whether or not they are going to like law enforcement or not (emotional decision) and then they will start gathering evidence to only support their decision - only watch the bad police videos if they hate police, etc. It's obvious I'm an LEO supporter, but I embrace problems like this because I believe they happen and they need to be dealt with. I think if we look fairly at both sides of the issue, we will see LEO's as humans and maybe find better ways to deal with them in real life situations.

The psychology part is very true and Im glad you mention it. I also agree that in cases like this when officers are acting outside the law, they need to be dealt with by being taken off the streets, and repaying the damages they did to the citizens.
 

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