Blind and carrying a gun....


NavyLCDR

New member
What do you think? I'm just going to toss this out there and see where the discussion goes:
Iowa grants gun permits to the blind

No one questions the legality of the permits. State law does not allow sheriffs to deny an Iowan the right to carry a weapon based on physical ability.

The quandary centers squarely on public safety. Advocates for the disabled and Iowa law enforcement officers disagree over whether it's a good idea for visually disabled Iowans to have weapons.


On one side: People such as Cedar County Sheriff Warren Wethington, who demonstrated for The Des Moines Register how blind people can be taught to shoot guns. And Jane Hudson, executive director of Disability Rights Iowa, who says blocking visually impaired people from the right to obtain weapon permits would violate the Americans with Disabilities Act. That federal law generally prohibits different treatment based on disabilities.


On the other side: People such as Dubuque County Sheriff Don Vrotsos, who said he wouldn't issue a permit to someone who is blind. And Patrick Clancy, superintendent of the Iowa Braille and Sight Saving School, who says guns may be a rare exception to his philosophy that blind people can participate fully in life.

Washington is another state where a blind person could not be refused a Concealed Pistol License just because of the physical challenge.
 

Well, I probably wouldn't go shooting with them. If I was going to their home, I'd probably call in advance.
Perhaps they've got the right to own a gun, but it sounds like an accident waiting to happen. A potentially fatal accident.
 
I'm also thinking that this is not a good idea for the blind to have a regular firearm. Perhaps restricting them to the pistols that shoot .410 gauge shotshells might be better though. A Governor or Judge might be the best option, that way they have a much better chance of hitting their target and less chance of inflicting collateral damage.

Joe
 
I've known & worked with quite a few blind people over the years. I once was driving a blind man to a speaking engagement (for transplant, blind, & people with disabilities function). I got lost in the city where the event was taking place. The man I was with asked me to tell him what intersection I was at. Then, he began to give me turn by turn directions to the venue. He knew every red light, stop sign and what was at every intersection. (Amazing! Better than GPS)

I don't think a blind person would get into a wide & open area gunfight. But, if they are physically attacked, I believe they could hit an attacker up close or in a HtH encounter.


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I don't see a problem with it. As far as a blind person having an accident with a gun I would think that is less likely. Everything must be a routine for them like folding bills a certain way for different denominations. They probably would not be too successful if they wanted to snipe innocent people in public but then again that is not their reason for getting a gun in the first place. A blind person is already at a disadvantage in terms of protecting themselves. A blind person could easily carry a small pocket pistol and it they are attacked they can grab a hold of the attacker with one hand and reach for their gun with the other hand. Then they simply thrust the gun at the attacker and as soon as they make contact they pull the trigger; no aiming required. Of course they should still be held to the same standards if they happen to shoot an innocent bystander. Why not let them have the same rights as others and require them to follow the same laws?
 
I've been thinking about this since I saw it... I've seen (not myself, but read about it) blind target shooters who were actually very good. I've also seen them skiing. They follow a sighted skier down, and it's often very crowded. We try to stay back, but it's not always possible, and the blind skier has no trouble following his leader and figuring out which one that is. I feel that with proper training (clearly, training specific to their disability), any responsible person could carry, blind or not. I don't need my sights to shoot accurately, and a sufficiently trained blind person wouldn't either.
 
here's one instance. Link Removed

personally I do NOT see any issue with it. Those that say they shouldn't have a gun are doing the exact same thing the liberals are doing by saying YOU should have hours and hours of training before you get your gun, and you should register it, and you should have limits on how many guns, and how much ammo you have. Why do you need that, etc. Seriously folks, if a blind man is being robbed and the robber says I'm going to kill you if you don't give me your money and watch, how far away would the robber be? 25 feet? 5 feet? Or the average, which is 3 feet. Don't you think someone that is completely blind could tell exactly where the bad guy was? Most times their other senses increase, hearing etc. It's pretty much just like everything else I believe, until you have proven yourself a problem, why should any limits be placed? And btw, there is a big difference between blind and legally blind. My mom is legally blind, but can still drive with corrective lenses.
 
From the Iowa Gun Owners email I just received....
"In fact, as I just finished telling this reporter, aren’t people who are disadvantaged in this way even MORE likely to need firearms for self-defense - as the criminals in society always target the more helpless amongst us to rape and kill?

Does a young woman, about to be raped, really need to see with 20/20 vision in order to shoot a man who is on top of her?

Should the elderly woman who fired a shot and missed a violent attacker who was breaking into her home on the East side of Des Moines a few years ago just surrender her life to a criminal because she’s old and can’t see well?

Does an elderly man, out for a walk, have to just lie down and die when being attacked by a dog because liberal hysterics say he can’t carry his .38? "

OF COURSE NOT!!!!!!!!!!!
 
There is a wide range of “blind”. Keep in mind that the legal definition of blind does not mean that you can not see.

My mother still passed the eye exam for her driving license and drove every day for several years after she was declared “legally blind”.

I have no problems with somebody who is “blind” having a gun or a permit to carry it.
 
We are a forum of people that have seemingly believed in the rights of Americans... not some Americans, ALL Americans. How dare anyone in this forum say someone should not be able to carry a firearm. You really think if someone tried to attack a blind person and they were within hands reach of that person, he/she couldn't un-holster and fire?

I'm actually quite ashamed at some of the comments I've seen in this thread.

Also, you know the little chamber indicators, the ones that stick out. I had read somewhere (and no I don't have the article.. .if someone does, please post) that CA mandated the chamber indicator specifically for the visually impaired. Also, to be "blind" in this country doesn't necessarily mean they cannot see even with corrective lenses. One can be legally blind and still have corrected vision.
 
We are a forum of people that have seemingly believed in the rights of Americans... not some Americans, ALL Americans. How dare anyone in this forum say someone should not be able to carry a firearm. You really think if someone tried to attack a blind person and they were within hands reach of that person, he/she couldn't un-holster and fire?

I'm actually quite ashamed at some of the comments I've seen in this thread.

Also, you know the little chamber indicators, the ones that stick out. I had read somewhere (and no I don't have the article.. .if someone does, please post) that CA mandated the chamber indicator specifically for the visually impaired. Also, to be "blind" in this country doesn't necessarily mean they cannot see even with corrective lenses. One can be legally blind and still have corrected vision.
You were doing great until you used a decision from Kommifornia to bolster your argument... Just sayin'... :)
 
I could not support the idea of someone who is really, totally blind from using a firearm for self defense.
The difference between being legally blind & totally blind should be obvious.
Owning them is another story.
 
You were doing great until you used a decision from Kommifornia to bolster your argument... Just sayin'... :)

So you think a chamber indicator isn't a beneficial addition to some firearms? So you are in a low light, no light situation... adrenaline pumping because some arse-face just shot at you, you changed mags, and aren't sure if you've racked the slide. You don't want to give away your position by turning on the flashlight, you don't want to rack again for fear of losing a precious round or for making a sound to give away your cover. So you brush your finger over the chamber indicator and you know exactly whether one is chambered or not. Just because CA mandated doesn't mean that it is a bad thing. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and again. Yes, pun intended.
 
I could not support the idea of someone who is really, totally blind from using a firearm for self defense.
The difference between being legally blind & totally blind should be obvious.
Owning them is another story.

So who gets to decide which of our citizenry gets to exercise their rights and who is denied them? I certainly hope it is not you.

You really think that George Zimmerman used his eye sight to defend himself when TM was straddling him and pummeling his face into the ground? I think not. I guarantee you, had GZ been blind and just point-shooted as is obvious that GZ had to do, that the news media (if it got covered) would have been praising GZ instead.

I cannot take credit for the above argument. Bluesstringer, from a similar thread that is happening simultaneously, came up with that argument.

Here is his post:
I had several friends in high school who were blind. Our school was the only one in the District that had a whole program for them. One of those high school friends was a young lady who sang like an angel. Another was a kid I'd known since grade school because his brother was in my same grade and we hung out quite a bit comin' up. That kid was a heckuva drummer, but not only on his kit. He could sit down at a kit and "flick" the heads and cymbals with his fingers to figure out how the kit was set up, and then play like he was on his own kit in just a minute or two. Out of the many garage bands that came out of our 6,000-student-body high school every year, he was among the most sought-after drummer.

Anyway, they came to that school with skills that were really quite remarkable. The walk-ways around the campus were very wide with large brick planters interspersed around in no discernible logical order. Add to those obstacles a bunch of trash cans, a skateboard that might just be left while its owner is talking to friends or whatever, and during period-changes, hundreds of people walking in every conceivable direction. Lorita, the blind girl, did use a cane in one hand, but like Bob, the blind drummer who didn't use a cane, would walk around snapping their fingers (lightly) and could walk around any obstacle just like they could see as good as you or I. It was a kind of developed sonar. Their ears had so completely compensated for the lack of vision that they could discern the amount of time an echo or reverberation returned to tell them what was in front of them. Well, maybe not "what" was in front of them, but that there was indeed a significant obstacle there.

For all those thinking this is just a ridiculous idea, did George Zimmerman aim before he fired? Could he see his target clearly? He simply felt the pain and helplessness of being mounted by an attacker in the dark, and managed to draw his weapon and fire into him, even thinking when it was over that he missed him and that he gave up only because the shot let him know his victim had a gun (or at least that was GZ's story). But just think about being a fight for your life. How much do you actually see, and how much natural point-and-shoot do most people actually engage in?

I have a couple of concerns about blind folk having guns, but I don't have a flat-out, knee-jerk objection to the idea. If they can be illegally attacked, they have the right to defend themselves. They would also have the responsibility to account for any harm a stray bullet might cause just like the rest of us. I've spent a ton of time with just normal folk who happen to be blind, and have witnessed them accomplish remarkable things, from skiing to surfing, so I can't consider their challenges so debilitating as to justify taking their rights of self defense away from them.

Blues
 
We are a forum of people that have seemingly believed in the rights of Americans... not some Americans, ALL Americans. How dare anyone in this forum say someone should not be able to carry a firearm.

OK, this is the second thread for this article. I disagree with this portion of your post, but didn't think about it untill I was responding in the other thread. There are some with disabilities that should definitely not carry firearms for self defense. The blind are definitely not on that list, as their situational awareness is exponentially better than any of us sighted people. The ones I mentioned in the other thread are those with an affliction that effects their decision making ability or their ability to control their physical movements. My sister has Downs Syndrome, and I have taken her shooting where she did well and had a blast. I would not trust her to make the proper decision on whether or not to take someones life. I have also been met people with MS that could properly make that decision, but would have trouble hitting their target without possibly harming others. Cerebral Palsy, Autism etc. There are many examples of people who should not carry guns for self defense.
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That said, if they are afflicted to the point that they could not safely defend themselves, they would (hopefully) never be in the position where they were left alone and forced to.
 
Sorry about the second thread on the topic. I am in a very different time zone on deployment and even though the time stamps may not indicate, our two threads were started very close to the same time.
 
OK, this is the second thread for this article. I disagree with this portion of your post, but didn't think about it untill I was responding in the other thread. There are some with disabilities that should definitely not carry firearms for self defense. The blind are definitely not on that list, as their situational awareness is exponentially better than any of us sighted people. The ones I mentioned in the other thread are those with an affliction that effects their decision making ability or their ability to control their physical movements. My sister has Downs Syndrome, and I have taken her shooting where she did well and had a blast. I would not trust her to make the proper decision on whether or not to take someones life. I have also been met people with MS that could properly make that decision, but would have trouble hitting their target without possibly harming others. Cerebral Palsy, Autism etc. There are many examples of people who should not carry guns for self defense.
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That said, if they are afflicted to the point that they could not safely defend themselves, they would (hopefully) never be in the position where they were left alone and forced to.

And if you are the one that is taking care of her, YOU get to make that call... NOT the federal government.
 

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