Active shooter at Ft. Hood...


E

ezkl2230

Guest
Coverage is developing right now.

And once again, as happened at the Navy Yard, our FIGHTING MEN AND WOMEN have been ordered to shelter in place.

"[FONT=istok_webregular]The Bell’s County Sheriff’s Office dispatched deputies and troopers from the Texas Department of Public Safety to the nearby post," Link Removed[/FONT]

County sheriff deputies and troopers to defend a MILITARY BASE?!

THIS IS A DISGRACE!

LET THEM DEFEND THEMSELVES!!!


UPDATE: FOUR DEAD, SHOOTER COMMITTED SUICIDE.

 

Coverage is developing right now.

And once again, as happened at the Navy Yard, our FIGHTING MEN AND WOMEN have been ordered to shelter in place.

"[FONT=istok_webregular]The Bell’s County Sheriff’s Office dispatched deputies and troopers from the Texas Department of Public Safety to the nearby post," Link Removed[/FONT]

County sheriff deputies and troopers to defend a MILITARY BASE?!

THIS IS A DISGRACE!

LET THEM DEFEND THEMSELVES!!!


UPDATE: FOUR DEAD, SHOOTER COMMITTED SUICIDE.


Sad, prayers to the victims families and what a son of a nut job......................................:mad::mad::mad::mad:


Cnon
 
I go to the local military installation quite frequently for various reasons. I have to leave my weapon at home because, even with a pistol license, there is no concealed carry authorized. I understand it is incomprehensible to some that carry is not allowed on post but there are more valid reasons for prohibiting it than for allowing one to carry. Troops today have been exposed to active combat for extended periods and it has taken an emotional toll on many. Suicide rates are up and could possibly go even higher if troops had constant access to weapons and live ammunition. Not only suicide, but shooting as have occurred at Ft. Hood. The incident today was supposedly between two individuals and not necessarily a jihad so we don't go looking for Muslims this time. If one has kept abreast with recruiting processes in the last few years, many young gang-bangers have entered the military. Those young people will kill another today without any feelings of remorse and, to let them carry freely on post, would be sheer insanity. Discipline has to be instilled and troops trained to integrate into a civil society as well as being an active combatant. This subject was brought up after the first shooting at Ft. Hood and most people argued that the insanity was in preventing troops from carrying. If not the lower ranking troops, mention was made of allowing officers and senior NCOs to carry. Regardless of who is allowed to carry, they will not always be at the location where the need presents itself. There is no real reason to compound the problems by enabling another occurrence(s) to happen with much more ease. Military personnel today are but a reflection of our civilian society so maybe society needs to be changed first.
 
I go to the local military installation quite frequently for various reasons. I have to leave my weapon at home because, even with a pistol license, there is no concealed carry authorized. I understand it is incomprehensible to some that carry is not allowed on post but there are more valid reasons for prohibiting it than for allowing one to carry. Troops today have been exposed to active combat for extended periods and it has taken an emotional toll on many. Suicide rates are up and could possibly go even higher if troops had constant access to weapons and live ammunition. Not only suicide, but shooting as have occurred at Ft. Hood. The incident today was supposedly between two individuals and not necessarily a jihad so we don't go looking for Muslims this time. If one has kept abreast with recruiting processes in the last few years, many young gang-bangers have entered the military. Those young people will kill another today without any feelings of remorse and, to let them carry freely on post, would be sheer insanity. Discipline has to be instilled and troops trained to integrate into a civil society as well as being an active combatant. This subject was brought up after the first shooting at Ft. Hood and most people argued that the insanity was in preventing troops from carrying. If not the lower ranking troops, mention was made of allowing officers and senior NCOs to carry. Regardless of who is allowed to carry, they will not always be at the location where the need presents itself. There is no real reason to compound the problems by enabling another occurrence(s) to happen with much more ease. Military personnel today are but a reflection of our civilian society so maybe society needs to be changed first.


You brought up some interesting points, thanks.


Cnon
 
Interesting, yes, but not completely valid. The prohibition on concealed carry does not in any way limit access to firearms by military members or other people on military bases. It simply disallows carry, so arguments about mental issues or suicide really aren't relevant. As for a concealed carrier not being in the right place at the right time, that would apply to anyone, anywhere. So if you wanted to use that as an argument against concealed carry, then you'd be arguing against it everywhere.

And since the Hasan shooting was workplace violence, I guess this one is going to be classified as domestic violence.
 
@ oldgrunt. As a military retiree (with 7 years law enforcement), I agree with some of your concerns . However, if, as you say, the military is reflective of society at large, how many of society go around shooting other brothers-at-arms, like police officers, for example? With gang-bangers there is no societal accountability, whereas service members have relatively high accountability at the squad and section level.

Yes, there are those who have returned from war with emotional and psychological scars, but that does not mean that because soldiers are allowed to conceal carry they are more likely to kill others. Since unit leaders are more likely to know whether a soldier has PTSD, or some other mental health issue that puts them at risk for harming self or others, command, in consultation with military mental health professionals, should have the authority to rescind a soldier's concealed carry on a case-by-case basis until cleared to carry again. Of note here, one of the screening questions for concealed carry permits concern those who have been institutionalized for mental health reasons within the past 5 years. Why can't the military have a similar policy for determining who can and cannot concealed carry?

The link below this forum states that an average of 22 military personnel per day commit suicide. One could argue that if all military personnel were cleared to concealed carry, the likelihood of suicide rates could go up. Possibly. However, while access to lethal means is always a consideration for determining risk of self harm, if a service member is determined to commit suicide, permit or no permit, they will succeed; unless effective intervention is applied.

Also, the same argument you use for not allowing concealed carry on military installations is what the 2nd amendment nay-sayers use. That if law-abiding Americans are allowed to concealed carry there will be murder and mayhem on the streets, which has been proven to be statistically false. And I believe that most Americans will agree that our military is overwhelmingly law-abiding.

To allow only officers and senior NCOs to conceal carry is condescending. If America and its military leaders trust 18 year-old E-1s to carry combat weapons on the battlefield, what makes them suddenly and mysteriously unreliable and unstable once they return stateside? Also, in a field environment, if a soldier doesn't have his or her assigned weapon on their person or in their immediate control, all hell will break loose. This is not a 2 + 2 = 4 scenario.

While I haven't fully developed my argument, obviously, there needs to be serious debate with a well-reasoned policy on the issue of allowing service members to conceal carry on military installations. And given the political climate in D.C., and the liberal anti-gun media in America, this isn't likely to happen in the near future.
 
Why some people do things is and has been always a mystery. I quit trying to figure it out because it was making me crazy. What I do know is that there are people in the service that really shouldn't be there. Boot camp no longer culls out the psychos but coddles and enables those that do not have the mind set or fortitude to commit to DISCIPLINE. Some of these people never really had any discipline. The pressure of being told what to do, when to do it and restrict the bemoaning to the contrary is completely foreign to them. They've always been able to whine and moan. Hence the pent up frustration and eventual explosion of the individual. By no means not all but some. And yes, I'm a Navy Vet, 12 years of service, Honorable discharge 1975-1987.
Until, and I've stated this the last time a FT Hood shooting happened, we fully arm career designated E-5's and above with side arms on a "ARMED FORCES BASE" then any crazy can conduct mayhem. Heck, with most bases in the US relying on "Base Police" (DOD) what if 20 Jihad Jonnies with full auto weapons attacks a base. I'm thinking a few hundred would perish before all were taken down. What really grates me is that somewhere at sometime somebody said that it would be an acceptable loss verses having active duty performing security duties.
 
I find it totally inconceivable that our active duty qualified personnel aren't allowed to carry sidearms while on duty. If this were allowed as it should be, there would not have been the deaths from these attacks. When I say qualified, I mean have been through CQB training. Just because a person qualifies on a range does not mean they are qualified to carry a sidearm while on duty under normal conditions. With that said, it's time we get someone along with the MP's authorized to carry sidearms on base.
 
Just because a person qualifies on a range does not mean they are qualified to carry a sidearm while on duty under normal conditions.
So everyone with a concealed carry license should turn it in unless they've had combat training? Funny, I don't remember seeing that in the 2nd amendment. I must have missed the part where it says normal civilians aren't entitled to the same right to defend themselves that combat soldiers are. I guess I'll have to go back and read it again.
 
According to the Military Times, many of our personnel want to be able to carry on base. They are required to carry on base in combat zones, but the moment they return to the US they are disarmed on base.

They deserve our support to get this changed.

Soldiers want OK to carry concealed weapons on base | Military Times | militarytimes.com

This petition calls upon the government to repeal DOD Directive 5210.56, which turned stateside bases into gun free, free fire zones:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...el-and-provide-military-security-our/rvb4J4Gh

Please take a moment to sign it - and then pass it on to everyone who supports our military personnel.
 
What I meant by my post, is just you qualified on a standard range environment, that person more than likely has not been trained in "Shoot or No Shoot scenarios. I'm not saying those with ccw permits shouldn't be allowed to carry on base. NOR am I saying our soldiers shouldn't be allowed the same privilege. I don't know about current basic training, bit I'll date myself by saying we trained on the M1 and the 1911 for a handgun. In my opinion all of our military should have CQB training in basic. I hope this clears up my position. Thanks for your input. We all need to support our brave men and women in the military. By the way, I have a granddaughter in the Air Force right now.
 
What I meant by my post, is just you qualified on a standard range environment, that person more than likely has not been trained in "Shoot or No Shoot scenarios. I'm not saying those with ccw permits shouldn't be allowed to carry on base. NOR am I saying our soldiers shouldn't be allowed the same privilege. I don't know about current basic training, bit I'll date myself by saying we trained on the M1 and the 1911 for a handgun. In my opinion all of our military should have CQB training in basic. I hope this clears up my position. Thanks for your input. We all need to support our brave men and women in the military. By the way, I have a granddaughter in the Air Force right now.
Very few people carrying a gun for self defense have been trained in shoot/no-shoot scenarios. Certainly such training would be nice, but the lack of it doesn't make them any less able or any less worthy to protect themselves when threatened. If I'm interpreting you correctly now, it appears you're trying to differentiate between people carrying concealed for their own protection and those carrying, probably openly, who are charged with more than just the protection of themselves, but also with the protection of others. The latter group would be the ones you see as needing CQB training, again, if I'm interpreting you correctly. That would sound more logical. I don't think the Air Force has CQB training though, at least not in basic. Not during my career anyway. The only place they'd have it would be in certain specialty training, such as Security Forces, Combat Control and Pararescue.
 
Very few people carrying a gun for self defense have been trained in shoot/no-shoot scenarios. Certainly such training would be nice, but the lack of it doesn't make them any less able or any less worthy to protect themselves when threatened...

And what is surprising to many is, despite the lack of shoot/no shoot or tactical training, civilians still kill far fewer innocents while killing more bad guys than do the "highly trained"! Police kill 5 1/2 times more innocents than civilians (11% vs 2%).

I think that speaks volumes regarding the training our civilians put in entirely on their own and at their own (NOT TAXPAYER) expense.
 
After the massacre, I wrote my Congressman (33 years military career) and asked if the gun free zones on military bases would be considered void to reduce the carnage. He said absolutely not. That decision would be made by the base commander of each installation, and a very few would be armed, if at all. There would be no change in the military directive concerning armed employees on base.
 
After the massacre, I wrote my Congressman (33 years military career) and asked if the gun free zones on military bases would be considered void to reduce the carnage. He said absolutely not. That decision would be made by the base commander of each installation, and a very few would be armed, if at all. There would be no change in the military directive concerning armed employees on base.

It is obscene that our "armed" forces are "dis-armed" on their bases by the hysteria and ignorance of some panty wetting liberals.
 
After the massacre, I wrote my Congressman (33 years military career) and asked if the gun free zones on military bases would be considered void to reduce the carnage. He said absolutely not. That decision would be made by the base commander of each installation, and a very few would be armed, if at all. There would be no change in the military directive concerning armed employees on base.

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/military-veterans/39958-repeal-dod-directive-5210-56-a.html
 

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