A couple of dumb questions from an old guy.


U

UATKP

Uncle Al
Our new proposed law for open carry in Texas stipulates a holster with "two types of retention". I know what a serpa holster with a trigger retention is... I have one. But I don't guess I've ever seen one with two types of retention. Is that a ridiculous requirement?
Can someone give me some examples of what this means?
 

UATKP said:
Is that a ridiculous requirement?
Click to expand...

Yes. Other states that don't have such a silly requirement have no problems. Every state when they propose to relax gun controls always predict that they will have "blood running in the streets" problems that no other state has had before them.
 
One of the reason I do not open carry is that there are very few non-duty holsters that prevent a gun grab. I had my gun snatched out of my low security duty rig when I was a rookie. I ordered a better holster the next day. Lost alot of sleep waiting for it to arrive.

That is one advantage of having a gun concealed. If they don't see it, they are a lot less likely to grab it.
 
Arizona is open carry been carrying there for several years no retention, the way holster is made make removing the firearm from behind almost impossible, custom made a couple of years ago in Mexico.
 
No such thing as a stupid question.

First off let's all understand one thing and this could be a life lesson for some. There is only one stupid question......... that is the one you don't ask. With that out of the way could this law possibly be referring the the retention device on the hoslter that resists the gun being removed and.......... a retention device on the paddle or clip to help the entire holster from being removed in a struggle for the weapon.
Ultimately no matter how one carries our situation awareness in crowds must he in a heightened state to insure that we don't walk into a problem.
 
Indeed, and a civilian open carrying generally has to worry 'less' about retention than a police officer, police routinely get into brawls with violent criminals and disgruntled or combative people who may be drunk or stoned or otherwise out of their minds, and you do not want your gun coming loose in any of those situations. Civilians who open carry are not as big of targets, do not routinely engage others in physical altercations, and if they are wary there is no reason a standard thumb break or even just a good tight fitting open holster is not sufficient, as long as your gun doesn't come bouncing out when you run or engage in other everyday activities.
 
As said before retention is between your ears. The only fool proof way to not have you gun taken is to not carry it period. Some holsters are easier than others to removing a pistol. I personally like the idea of concealed carry. I have never open carried for a number of reasons one of them being I don't want the bad guy to think he might wanna try to snatch my pistol. The pistol is not on me for folks to see. If I lived in a state that only allowed open carry that would be a different Story. I would probably consider moving to Virginia.
 
Dekul34 said:
Indeed, and a civilian open carrying generally has to worry 'less' about retention than a police officer, police routinely get into brawls with violent criminals and disgruntled or combative people who may be drunk or stoned or otherwise out of their minds, and you do not want your gun coming loose in any of those situations. Civilians who open carry are not as big of targets, do not routinely engage others in physical altercations, and if they are wary there is no reason a standard thumb break or even just a good tight fitting open holster is not sufficient, as long as your gun doesn't come bouncing out when you run or engage in other everyday activities.
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It isn't a question if we think it is sufficient, the OP stated the proposed Texas State Law requires double retention holsters. That means it will be required to legally open carry and would present a problem if one is not in compliance while this form of the law is in effect. Just saying it isn't up to him and I'm not saying it is needed either. I certainly don't use anything than a standard Blackhawk Serpa Sporter.
 
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Below is the defenition of a Level II retention holster as per Safariland. By this definition, the Blackhawk Serpa would qualify due to both the finger locking mechenism and a retention detent holding the pistol in. I just proved this on my Serpa that I use for EDOC.

Level II Retention ™
Before a holster can be considered for a Level II rating, it must first past the Holster Retention
Test. After passing the Test, the primary lock must be disabled and the same Retention Test is
repeated. In order to test the holster for a Level II rating, the primary securing device must be
determined. The primary securing device is defined as the lock that requires the first action by
the user in order to start the drawing sequence. This initial action is an individual and deliberate
action by the user to start the unlocking of any securing mechanism.
 
(8) "Unconcealed handgun" means a loaded or unloaded
handgun carried upon the person in a shoulder or belt holster with
at least dual points of resistance that is wholly or partially
visible.

That is the paragraph from the proposed law that I referred to; so I guess I should take it to mean two different types of retention to keep the weapon from being snatched.
 
They always have to make everything so dang complicated. I like Washington's definition - if you can see it, it ain't concealed, and, therefore, requires no license to carry loaded or unloaded (outside a vehicle).
 
I wonder what constitutes 'dual points of resistance', wouldn't a single tension device that applies pressure to both sides of the weapon to keep it in place be 'dual points' and well, doesn't EVERY point in a holster provide at least some resistance? So every holster has infinite (or close enough) points of resistance and should be alright by this law.

And why do they point out 'unloaded' firearms? Are they worried about someone grabbing an unloaded gun? I mean, who's going to open carry an unloaded gun?
 
I used to worry about retention a lot more - back when I used to be running and jumping around all the time. Now after knee replacement, couple shoulder surgeries, couple of heart surgeries and lots of years piled up gravity is pretty much all I need. I stay upright and gun stays in holster. I have a fobus for my bersa thunder 380 but I have a difficult time drawing it. Supposedly if you twist it right it comes out ok. I apparently haven't mastered the "twist". I have to leave something in it to "stretch" the holster so the weapon can be drawn without the holster coming with it. I use the blackhawk serpa and balckhawk sportster for my glocks.

Oh, any suggestions on how to draw from the forbus would be appreciated. There is no adjustment screw. The way it is out of the box should count for about 3 retention systems. I'm sure this is a problem of mine, not the holster but I tried about everything before sticking some stuff into it to stretch it.
 
The only thing I like about retention is that it makes it a little harder for someone to grab my gun. They have to know how to defeat the retention device. If they don't, then it will give me an extra split second or so to react, hopefully effectively.
 
farsidefan1 said:
I used to worry about retention a lot more - back when I used to be running and jumping around all the time. Now after knee replacement, couple shoulder surgeries, couple of heart surgeries and lots of years piled up gravity is pretty much all I need. I stay upright and gun stays in holster. I have a fobus for my bersa thunder 380 but I have a difficult time drawing it. Supposedly if you twist it right it comes out ok. I apparently haven't mastered the "twist". I have to leave something in it to "stretch" the holster so the weapon can be drawn without the holster coming with it. I use the blackhawk serpa and balckhawk sportster for my glocks.

Oh, any suggestions on how to draw from the forbus would be appreciated. There is no adjustment screw. The way it is out of the box should count for about 3 retention systems. I'm sure this is a problem of mine, not the holster but I tried about everything before sticking some stuff into it to stretch it.
Click to expand...

The basic, standard Fobus holster is not a good one. However the Fobus Evolution series is a good kydex holster, does have adjustable retention screws, and a much better and more secure attachment to its belt loops (yes, you can get it in a paddle version). I own three Fobus Evolution belt holsters which I use for my Glocks and two of my M&P's. This is a very good holster. The way to draw the gun is straight up. There should be enough tension to capture the gun securely and make it next to impossible to remove at an angle. But no so much that you pull your pants up to your armpits when drawing your sidearm.
 
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