What to say to an open carry visitor at church?

Cypher said:
The issue that I have with most of the responses I’ve read in this thread so far is that the OP hasn’t asked anyone to validate his policy of banning open carry from his church, that decision has already been made. All he’s asking for is suggestions on how to implement it.

It’s been my experience that the people who show up at a church and begin by violating church policy and then call the church bigoted or prejudiced for not changing that policy to suit them are generally the ones who are there to disrupt.

If you truly believe that God has placed you in a given church then it follows that you believe that He has placed the Pastor of that church in a position of spiritual authority over you and that except in cases of clear departure from Scriptural truth or flagrant Pastoral misconduct he is to be obeyed. If you truly disagree with the churches’ policy then you’re better off finding a church that you agree with than trying to bend the church you’re in to your will.

Similarly, I haven’t asked for anyone’s validation of my church’s policy of placing armed plain clothes security in close proximately to anyone who chooses to attend our services openly armed. When your church has an active shooter incident and handles is as well as or better than we did then you can tell us how to do it but not before.
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I find it interesting that you have no issue with firearms in church, only with the people that you pass judgement on. That is not an appealing quality in a congregation.

It is sad you had an incident in your church. Good people shouldn't have to change the way they live because bad things happen to them. We shouldn't have to live behind barred doors or live in fear. Your congregation has reacted very severely to your shooting. Having armed men follow those whose intentions you have judged seems more like how our government reacts than how a congregation would.

You don't run your own Christian NSA program do you? :)

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2
 
Let me ask a very simple question...

If Jesus were at the door greeting folks as they entered the church... would He turn anyone away because they were wearing a gun in plain sight? Would He tell people that in order to have the privilege of worshiping Him they would have to cover up their gun or put it in the car because it might be disruptive?

Well.... would He?

Well?
 
iKarith said:
Actually, we can know.
I'm no pastor, minister, or priest, but I do know that much of Jesus.
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I should have said, we'll never know "in this life". The scriptures defining "sword" are numerous & controversial and therefor one can only speculate. I'm no pastor, minister, or priest either, but I do know that much. :pleasantry:
 
bing98507 said:
Not posted yet. Recently approved policy prompted by an OC visitor, first time in 9 years as a pastor. See the need to post, but would prefer not to draw any attention to it, but handle it on a case by case basis with positive interaction.
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Then post it or say welcome.
 
bing98507 said:
I pastor a church in a rural/suburban area of Washington state (OC legal). We have a policy prohibiting OC at our worship service (CC OK). If you were to visit our church for worship, what's the best way for me to inform you of the policy? Here's what is what I plan to say after personally welcoming you and exchanging names (not from the front, but one-to-one):

"I am glad you have come to worship. We do not allow open carry in this building during worship because we have found that it distracts too many people. You may carry concealed if you have a permit or lock your gun in your car. I hope you will choose one of those options and stay."

If you can comply, great. If not, I would ask you to leave.

Thanks for the feedback. If I need to do this in the future, I would like to get it right.

Rich
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It's polite but not very welcoming. I would leave and not darken your doors again. If you spoke to me AFTER the service, I would likely be more receptive but to be greeted that way, I would definitely not feel welcome. Remember, Christ didn't chase off those with whom he disagreed. He welcomed the chance to share the Word with them.
 
caubry89 said:
I have no problem being asked to conceal my weapon not that I would need to as it always is concealed. What I have a problem with is the placing of security. That to me is no different than walking into the local WM and being followed by security for just carrying a weapon. How can we as armed citizens get the anti's to trust someone legally carrying a weapon when we don't trust our own?

Sent from my SCH-I405 using USA Carry mobile app
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When they've just walked in off the street, how do we know that they're "our own???"
 
Warbirds said:
I find it interesting that you have no issue with firearms in church, only with the people that you pass judgement on. That is not an appealing quality in a congregation.
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On a given weekend we generally seat upwards of 20 THOUSAND people over the course of 4 services So I'm going to assume we must have some appealing qualities

Warbirds said:
It is sad you had an incident in your church
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Let me clarify, our “incident” cost the lives of two of our members and 3 more injured before the shooter (who was headed for the main sanctuary which holds something like 8,000 people BTW) was stopped. By a security team volunteer with a CHP BTW.

Again, no one is asking you to validate our decisions but please don’t assume that you are in a position to dictate our security measures to us
 
Bikenut said:
Let me ask a very simple question...

If Jesus were at the door greeting folks as they entered the church... would He turn anyone away because they were wearing a gun in plain sight? Would He tell people that in order to have the privilege of worshiping Him they would have to cover up their gun or put it in the car because it might be disruptive?

Well.... would He?

Well?
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Jesus, in person, would not be welcome in many churches today for many reasons. He would just make too many people uncomfortable.

bing98507 said:
Thanks for the feedback. If I need to do this in the future, I would like to get it right.

Rich
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I would probably say something like, "While Jesus was well known to welcome those type of persons that made others feel uncomfortable and fellowship with them, we are not known for that, so please, if you would like to fellowship with us we would appreciate it if you would conform to our standards. Thank you for your understanding."
 
Here's an experience I had... I was looking for a new church in my home town about 20 years ago. I went into the church that I thought was the one I wanted (alone) and messed up the times and ended up in the end of Sunday School instead of before the worship service. As I was sitting there in the end of the Sunday School class, I noticed that I was the only person in the room of the Caucasian persuasion and I had messed up the times of the service, because I wasn't in the church I thought I was going to! As the transition from Sunday School to Worship occurred, I remained the only person of Caucasian persuasion in the building. And you know what they did? IF they were uncomfortable at all about this 100% white guy (I mean red hair and pale skin and all), I never noticed it. They welcomed me with open arms and firm handshakes. This was in St. Mary's, GEORGIA, btw.

They announced that the men of the church would be doing building chores the next Saturday, so I returned to see what I could do. I ended up attending that church for the better part of a year before I left due to military orders. And for the entire time that I was there, I was the only white person. I'm sure I probably did make a minority of the member's uncomfortable, but if I did, there was no indication of it ever displayed. I was "Brother John" to them.
 
Get angry at me because I'm a Muslim man weighing in on this, but...responding to the title of your thread...why not just say "hello?" Why do you feel the need to reduce your population by telling a man to cover it up? Does that eight of an inch of fabric really make you feel better? People who only allow CC remind me of 1 year olds playing peekaboo...they think that covering your face makes you disappear.
 
tricolordad said:
Get angry at me because I'm a Muslim man weighing in on this, but...responding to the title of your thread...why not just say "hello?" Why do you feel the need to reduce your population by telling a man to cover it up? Does that eight of an inch of fabric really make you feel better? People who only allow CC remind me of 1 year olds playing peekaboo...they think that covering your face makes you disappear.
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LOL!!!! You just made my day with your reference to children playing peekaboo.. to describe the self deceiving "If I can't see it then it doesn't exist and I'm safe." perspective of the open carry phobic folks.
 
Cypher said:
On a given weekend we generally seat upwards of 20 THOUSAND people over the course of 4 services So I'm going to assume we must have some appealing qualities



Let me clarify, our “incident” cost the lives of two of our members and 3 more injured before the shooter (who was headed for the main sanctuary which holds something like 8,000 people BTW) was stopped. By a security team volunteer with a CHP BTW.

Again, no one is asking you to validate our decisions but please don’t assume that you are in a position to dictate our security measures to us
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May I ask... in reference to the tragic incident your church experienced.......

Did the shooter open carry into your church before opening fire? Or did he sneak the gun in concealed?

Because I can understand (not agree with but understand) all the precautions you say you take with undercover concealed carrying security surrounding an open carrier because of past experience.... but if the shooter brought in the gun concealed wouldn't it make more sense to focus on concealed carry?
 
Bikenut said:
Did the shooter open carry into your church before opening fire? Or did he sneak the gun in concealed?
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Started shooting in the parking lot so the open carry aspect was moot

I think I’m better off not continuing this discussion; the OP has already made his decision as is his right as has my church.

It is not the duty of every church to accommodate every person that walks through the door especially not when doing so means setting aside church policy.

If you don’t like the OP’s policy or ours feel free to find a church that better meets your needs
 
Cypher said:
Started shooting in the parking lot so the open carry aspect was moot
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Ok.... then wouldn't having security stop anyone and everyone in the parking lot to make sure they don't have any guns make more sense? Why target open carriers but not concealed carriers, especially since criminals tend to carry concealed, IN the church?

I know you said you don't have to justify your church's policy.. and you surely don't... and I respect that... I'm not disparaging that policy but I'm trying to understand the inconsistent and illogical idea of targeting open carriers but not concealed carriers in hopes of preventing another shooting. I mean.. if the concern is people who have guns that you can see wouldn't the concern also be people who have guns you can't see?
 
Thanks for the insight on how mega churches run security programs more like a big business. I think I will stick to a congregation where I know everyone by name if not by face.

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Cypher said:
Started shooting in the parking lot so the open carry aspect was mootI think I’m better off not continuing this discussion; the OP has already made his decision as is his right as has my church. It is not the duty of every church to accommodate every person that walks through the door especially not when doing so means setting aside church policy. If you don’t like the OP’s policy or ours feel free to find a church that better meets your needs
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I only recall Jesus turning away one group of people in the Bible. Well two if you count the Pharisees and Sadducees as two different groups. Jesus' church policy was to bring everyone closer to God.I am reading a very good book at this very moment called "The Devil in Pew Number Seven", about Pastor Robert Nichols in Sellerstown, North Carolina. Very good reading and very on topic of this discussion.But, just like the argument that times have changed since the Constitution was written, times have changed since the Bible was written too.... so we can say....
 
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