God & the Bible, squaring belief with reality


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OG, as long as people have believed in God, there have been those who take the opposing view. The ranks of atheists have always been small, never amounting to more than four percent of the population. The key problem with atheism is that it lacks a strong “selling point.” They have no religion of their own, so the sole purpose of their existence revolves around attacking the validity of the Holy Bible. Their greatest fear and all of their anger is derived from the fact that they can't prove that the Bible isn't true, because if the Bible is true as we know it is, they know that they will fry, sizzle, and burn for all eternity. Like I've said before, we can lead an atheist to the evidence but we can't make them think. To an atheist no amount of proof is sufficient, atheists are so opposed to anything linked to God that their hatred gets in the way of common sense.

Atheists thrive by being a parasite on Christianity and mostly target the shortcomings of individuals. Atheists operate much like chickens. As long as they have plenty of food, they will get along with each other. You deprive them of this requirement, and they will peck each other to death and turn into cannibals. A common refrain I get from atheists and other godless people, is that they can't wait until we Christians are gone. What they don't realize is that once we are gone, they will intellectually starve. Atheists don't know how foolish they look when expressing their unbelief. I have read the views of several leading atheists and have found an almost universal embracing of death. For them, life is just meant to come to an abrupt end. Just think about it, how stupid does one have to be to deliberately engage in any debate or conversation about something or someone that they believe doesn't even exist? If these people had any common sense they would refrain and leave us Christians alone to be the fools they perceive us to be, after all, they certainly have nothing to gain, or, save us from, do they? It's a joke, they want to convince us that there is no God so that we won't go to a Heaven that they don't believe exists. :wacko:

I agree, they are the sons of perdition. What people must realize we are here for such a short time , as the fat hits the fire, a small whisper and it is gone, so is the life of man.
I find the book of ECCLESIASTES to be a excellent read on the this subject.
 

OG, as long as people have believed in God, there have been those who take the opposing view. The ranks of atheists have always been small, never amounting to more than four percent of the population. The key problem with atheism is that it lacks a strong “selling point.” They have no religion of their own, so the sole purpose of their existence revolves around attacking the validity of the Holy Bible. Their greatest fear and all of their anger is derived from the fact that they can't prove that the Bible isn't true, because if the Bible is true as we know it is, they know that they will fry, sizzle, and burn for all eternity. Like I've said before, we can lead an atheist to the evidence but we can't make them think. To an atheist no amount of proof is sufficient, atheists are so opposed to anything linked to God that their hatred gets in the way of common sense.

Atheists thrive by being a parasite on Christianity and mostly target the shortcomings of individuals. Atheists operate much like chickens. As long as they have plenty of food, they will get along with each other. You deprive them of this requirement, and they will peck each other to death and turn into cannibals. A common refrain I get from atheists and other godless people, is that they can't wait until we Christians are gone. What they don't realize is that once we are gone, they will intellectually starve. Atheists don't know how foolish they look when expressing their unbelief. I have read the views of several leading atheists and have found an almost universal embracing of death. For them, life is just meant to come to an abrupt end. Just think about it, how stupid does one have to be to deliberately engage in any debate or conversation about something or someone that they believe doesn't even exist? If these people had any common sense they would refrain and leave us Christians alone to be the fools they perceive us to be, after all, they certainly have nothing to gain, or, save us from, do they? It's a joke, they want to convince us that there is no God so that we won't go to a Heaven that they don't believe exists. :wacko:

This is one of the most asinine and ignorant blanket statements I have ever seen.

Dingo, I will be more than happy to leave you to your myths, but it's YOU that seems to have the need to denigrate those who don't believe as you do. I have no need to convince you of anything, yet you seem to have a need to make me believe as you do, and if I don't, YOU are the one getting all pissy.

Grow up.

tom
 
This is one of the most asinine and ignorant blanket statements I have ever seen.

Dingo, I will be more than happy to leave you to your myths, but it's YOU that seems to have the need to denigrate those who don't believe as you do. I have no need to convince you of anything, yet you seem to have a need to make me believe as you do, and if I don't, YOU are the one getting all pissy.

Grow up.

tom
As I've said before, "Truth is like a rock thrown into a pack of barking rabid dogs foaming at the mouth. The dog it hits barks the loudest". In your own words you're not intelligent enough, or old enough to know that people can't "MAKE YOU" believe" anything. It's amusing to hear someone so naive telling anyone to "grow up"! And if you have "no need to CONVINCE me of anything", as you say, you would mind your own business and not stick your nose into anything Christians are discussing, period. Right now you're barking loud and clear and drooling all over yourself. I don't know what you need most, a muzzle or a bib.
 
As I've said before, "Truth is like a rock thrown into a pack of barking rabid dogs foaming at the mouth. The dog it hits barks the loudest". In your own words you're not intelligent enough, or old enough to know that people can't "MAKE YOU" believe" anything. It's amusing to hear someone so naive telling anyone to "grow up"! And if you have "no need to CONVINCE me of anything", as you say, you would mind your own business and not stick your nose into anything Christians are discussing, period. Right now you're barking loud and clear and drooling all over yourself. I don't know what you need most, a muzzle or a bib.

Gee, I tried to just say that you have your beliefs and I have mine, but you just can't let it go without getting in your last immature dig. I might as well be talking to the south end of a northbound horse.

Oh, wait..............................


tom
 
Gee, I tried to just say that you have your beliefs and I have mine, but you just can't let it go without getting in your last immature dig. I might as well be talking to the south end of a northbound horse.

Oh, wait..............................


tom
The bark just keeps getting louder!!
 
Apparently, Dingo, I'm mature enough to say that we'll just have to agree to disagree, but somehow I think that is something you've never considered. Carry on in the world of "Dingo is Never Wrong".

I'll get back to reality.

tom
 
Ringo: Tom seems to have a bone to pick with you for some reason. I'm not going to get into a peeing contest but I would refer him to Jude 3, "....and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered to the saints." You are earnestly contending for the faith and I find no fault in you doing so. Keep it up, I learn from you and others on here and enjoy the give and take.
 
Originally Posted by Ringo
OG, as long as people have believed in God, there have been those who take the opposing view. The ranks of atheists have always been small, never amounting to more than four percent of the population. The key problem with atheism is that it lacks a strong “selling point.” They have no religion of their own, so the sole purpose of their existence revolves around attacking the validity of the Holy Bible. Their greatest fear and all of their anger is derived from the fact that they can't prove that the Bible isn't true, because if the Bible is true as we know it is, they know that they will fry, sizzle, and burn for all eternity. Like I've said before, we can lead an atheist to the evidence but we can't make them think. To an atheist no amount of proof is sufficient, atheists are so opposed to anything linked to God that their hatred gets in the way of common sense.

Atheists thrive by being a parasite on Christianity and mostly target the shortcomings of individuals. Atheists operate much like chickens. As long as they have plenty of food, they will get along with each other. You deprive them of this requirement, and they will peck each other to death and turn into cannibals. A common refrain I get from atheists and other godless people, is that they can't wait until we Christians are gone. What they don't realize is that once we are gone, they will intellectually starve. Atheists don't know how foolish they look when expressing their unbelief. I have read the views of several leading atheists and have found an almost universal embracing of death. For them, life is just meant to come to an abrupt end. Just think about it, how stupid does one have to be to deliberately engage in any debate or conversation about something or someone that they believe doesn't even exist? If these people had any common sense they would refrain and leave us Christians alone to be the fools they perceive us to be, after all, they certainly have nothing to gain, or, save us from, do they? It's a joke, they want to convince us that there is no God so that we won't go to a Heaven that they don't believe exists.



This is one of the most asinine and ignorant blanket statements I have ever seen.

Dingo, I will be more than happy to leave you to your myths, but it's YOU that seems to have the need to denigrate those who don't believe as you do. I have no need to convince you of anything, yet you seem to have a need to make me believe as you do, and if I don't, YOU are the one getting all pissy.

Grow up.

tom

Jesus told them in John 8: 44 For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 So when I tell the truth, you just naturally don’t believe me!

It doesn’t have to be that way. Happy… you will never be happy.

You will never have peace true peace until you stop pushing God out. Tell me I’m wrong when I say... something in your life is missing and you have never been able to fill that hole in your heart.
Everything you have tried to this point has never quite done it! Well guess what..You may get tomorrow…you may not but the “tomorrows” for those that don’t believe come to an end.
We all want to live and so we have one hope.
John 3:16-20 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.
18 “There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. 19 And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. 20 All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed.

You can be forgiven.
 
Because there are over 14,000 manuscript copies of the New Testament we can absolutely be confident of its accuracy. With this large number of manuscripts, comparing manuscripts easily reveals any place where a scribe has made an error or where there is a variation. There are approximately 150,000 variations in the manuscripts we have today. However, these variations represent only 10,000 places in the New Testament (if the same word was misspelled in 3,000 manuscripts, that is counted as 3,000 variations.( Of these 10,000 places, all but 400 are questions of spelling in accord with accepted usage, grammatical construction, or order of words. Of the remaining variations, only 50 are of significance #such as two manuscripts leaving out Acts 2:37.) But of these 50, not one alters even one article of faith which cannot be abundantly sustained by other undoubted passages.

Really? WOW talk about ignoring the facts. As stated already the EARLIEST versions of the new testament know to exist are VASTLY different to the modern book in content. Even the "chapters" are not the same. The differences are astounding. Not little difference of a error by the "scribe" MAJOR differences in both the words used and the content as a whole.

The other two major religions books are almost IDENTICAL in the copies from ( within 200 years of the oldest known bible ) oldest known to present day. Many produced today have fewer then 10 different WORDS between the oldest and newest.

Again There is reality and there is FAITH. Faith is unhindered by facts or proof. How one can make the claims you just did giving the factual written proof of the differences are a prime example of faith.
 
Really? WOW talk about ignoring the facts. As stated already the EARLIEST versions of the new testament know to exist are VASTLY different to the modern book in content. Even the "chapters" are not the same. The differences are astounding. Not little difference of a error by the "scribe" MAJOR differences in both the words used and the content as a whole.

The other two major religions books are almost IDENTICAL in the copies from ( within 200 years of the oldest known bible ) oldest known to present day. Many produced today have fewer then 10 different WORDS between the oldest and newest.

Again There is reality and there is FAITH. Faith is unhindered by facts or proof. How one can make the claims you just did giving the factual written proof of the differences are a prime example of faith.

Maine: I don't think there is a person alive today that can authenticate the accuracy of any given version of the Bible. We read what we can and continue to study. "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. II Timothy 2:15." I have several versions of the Bible and they essentially agree with each other. There may be a word different here or there but the message or meaning to be given to it remains the same. The Bible is our guide to the salvation of our souls and faith in God's word is what we use to lead us on our journey to Him. If one reads their Bible and adheres to it's teachings, I think God will not let us go astray over a misplaced punctuation point or missspelled word. You are absolutely right in that we are led by faith. If it wasn't for faith, wouldn't the Bible be just another book?
 
Maine: I don't think there is a person alive today that can authenticate the accuracy of any given version of the Bible. You are absolutely right in that we are led by faith. If it wasn't for faith, wouldn't the Bible be just another book?


Both correct. My point being that those who claim the bible is the "correct" word of god ignore the vast differences over the years with blinders of faith. All the while saying the books ( of other religions ) that have NOT been altered are wrong because of the same faith.

Also the bible is not "another book" it is many different books. The key word being DIFFERENT. The bible over the years has been proven to be a ever changing text at the mercy of the hands of man.
 
Ok, so some of you don't believe in the Bible. So, let's look at a little science FACT!

A few posts back I recommended a book called Link Removed. Here are some excerpts taken from one chapter;

Sorry it's a long read but well worth it!

Quantum Information and the Mind of God---

...... In the previous chapter we began to explore the role of the Word of God in both creating and sustaining the universe at a quantum level. But now we would like to turn our attention to the role of information in the construction of the atoms and molecules of matter that constitute our physical universe. Information plays a crucial role in the creation of matter because, as it has been discovered, complex mathematical information is embedded within every expression of the physical world.

As we will learn in this chapter the quantum world carries complex information in the form of clearly defined mathematical properties. Heinz Pagels, the author of The Cosmic Code: Quantum Physics as the Language of Nature, says, “I think the universe is a message written in a code, and the scientists’ job is to decipher that code.”1 The information within quantum systems is highly intelligible in that it can be formulated mathematically with accuracy, consistency and precision....

Information in Nature

The Bible declares that “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (John 1:1) The “Word of God” is not just a mere sound; it is a vehicle that conveys both simple and complex information, and this information is expressed through language. Whilst information can be communicated through any human language so that it can be clearly understood by those who understand the code, it can also be expressed through the language of mathematics, as any trained physicist would be able to explain. It was Dr. Stephen Marquardt who declared that, “All physics is math.”3 There has always been an intimate relationship between quantum physics and mathematics. Mathematics is the unique scientific language that communicates a certain kind of complex information that describes the properties and processes of the physics of the universe.

Professor Werner Gitt of the German Federal Institute of Physics and Technology released a book in 1997 titled In the Beginning Was Information. The central thesis of the book is that information lies at the core of the entire universe and that all information is the product of divine intelligence which existed prior to the creation of the physical universe. In fact, all of creation points back to the existence of a divine consciousness that preceded creation. Professor Gitt convincingly argues that the information content of matter supports the theory of Intelligent Design because information is always the product of an intelligent Mind, not of pure random chance.

Professor Gitt uses the illustration of complex genetic information as a blueprint not only for the construction of life molecules but also as the source of the operational information that is programmed into every living molecule. It is one thing to create a specific molecule out of hundreds of smaller components (such as amino acids or ribonucleic acids) but it is an entirely different thing to create a functional molecule which repeatedly performs intelligent tasks, as do all of the molecules within the living cell. The key to the construction and programming of life molecules is always information, and that information is fundamentally mathematical.

It is worthwhile considering the degree of complexity in the information that is communicated through the human genetic code if only to expand our consciousness concerning the absolute marvel and wonder of creation and the strategic role that information plays in the construction of everything in the universe. Werner Gitt explains the basics of information through the lens of computer code:


The bit (abbreviated from binary digit) is the unit for measuring information content. The number of bits is the same as the number of binary symbols. Binary states have the property that only one of the two binary symbols (1 or 0) can be involved at a certain moment. The bit is also the smallest unit of information that can be represented in a digital computer. When text is entered into a computer it is transformed into a pre-determined binary code and also stored in this form. One letter usually requires 8 binary storage positions, known as a byte. The information content of a text is then described in terms of the number of bits required.



Now, let’s apply that background information to the content of the genetic code. Jon W. Gordon explains just how vast the informational content of the genetic code really is:

The genetic material, DNA, has only four subunits, which is more than the two numbers of the binary system. Therefore if DNA is going to write the instructions to produce a brain with tens of millions of interconnected neurons, a heart that pumps 100,000 times per day for up to 100 years without failing, a reproductive system that will initiate and support the development of a baby and the myriad other specialized structures and organ systems of a human, it is going to have to rely on length. How long is the DNA molecule? The number of subunits required to encode the development and function of a human is about three billion.

If the genetic code were written out at 12 characters per inch, a size typical for a printout from a word processor, the total length of the printout would be about 47,000 miles. Even though the DNA bases are exceedingly small, the actual length of DNA required to encode a human is still about one meter. This meter of DNA is packaged into the nucleus of the cell, a structure only a few millionths of a meter across. The nucleus of a cell holds 6 gigabytes of genetic information (each nucleus actually has two complete copies of the 3 billion-base genetic code) in a structure far too small for the human eye to see!




The six gigabytes of information found in the nucleus of all 30 trillion cells in our body is constructional information. The genetic code is the blueprint for constructing complex molecules that are pre-programmed to function in a highly specific manner. Once the molecules are constructed they begin to “swing into action” and function the way they were designed to function. Operational information is of an entirely different order. Werner Gitt gives an estimate of the level of operational information generated in the human body on an average day.

The amount of information streaming through the deliberate, as well as the involuntary activities of the human body is about 3 x 1024 bits per day. When this is compared with the total quantity of information stored in all of the libraries of the world – 1018 bits – we make an astounding discovery: The quantity of information processed in our bodies during the course of one day, is one million times greater than all the knowledge represented in the books of the world!



In part, this would be a reflection of the fact that the brain has such an unfathomable number of neuronal connections that are all continuously processing and exchanging complex information. The brain is unquestionably the crowning achievement of God’s creative bio-engineering abilities. Michael Denton is a molecular biologist and he is the author of Evolution: A Theory in Crisis. He gives a staggering illustration to describe the power of one human brain.

Each nerve cell puts out somewhere in the region of between 10,000 and 100,000 connecting fibers by which it makes contact with other nerve cells in the brain. Altogether the total number of connections in the human brain approaches 1,000,000,000,000,000. Numbers in the order of a thousand million, million are of course completely beyond comprehension. Imagine an area about half the size of the USA (one million square miles) covered in a forest of trees containing ten thousand trees per square mile. If each tree contained one hundred thousand leaves the total number of leaves in the forest would be 1000,000,000,000, equivalent to the number of connections in the human brain!

Richard Restak, author of Brainscapes, says, “Counting these connections at the rate of one connection per second would take 32 million years to complete. Even a section of the brain no bigger than a match head contains about a billion connections.”8 Michael Denton takes the illustration a step further.

Despite the enormity of the number of connections, the ramifying forest of fibers is not a chaotic random tangle but a highly organized network in which a high proportion of the fibers are unique adaptive communication channels following their own specially ordained pathway through the brain. Even if only one hundredth of the connections in the brain were specifically organized, this would still represent a system containing a much greater number of specific connections than in the entire communications network on earth!

All information is ultimately quantum information because the building blocks of matter are quantum bits. It is not just in the assembly and function of biological life molecules that we discover this complex information. The geometric and symmetrical structures of non-living matter also exhibit definite mathematical properties that are consistent and measureable.

From the structure of galaxies to the structure of crystals and snowflakes there is evidence of mathematical information that gives rise to patterns that reflect visual beauty and elegance. We live in the midst of a world of extraordinary natural beauty where properties such as proportion and geometric symmetry render natural phenomena as beautiful and attractive.

When God spoke the universe into existence His word set in motion a cascading explosion of information all the way from quantum particles to the largest galaxies of space. Mathematical information is embedded in everything. Every aspect of classical physics and of quantum physics can be expressed mathematically and this language of mathematics is equally an expression of the Word of God.

Mathematics is clearly part of the language of God. When we study this mathematical signature at the core of every aspect of creation it becomes increasingly difficult to avoid the conclusion that there is a God and that this intelligent and all powerful being is an incomparably brilliant cosmic mathematician who has structured the universe on readily discernable patterns of precise mathematical formulas which enable scientists to describe the attributes and processes of the physical world….

Mason, Phil (2012-01-01). Quantum Glory: The Science of Heaven Invading Earth (p. 198). XP Publishing. Kindle Edition.​

Yes, even the more science uncovers, the more science also points to the Bible as TRUTH!

Consider Moses' account of "creation" in Genesis. He wrote down the EXACT "order" of how the universe was formed. (Science has now proven the order of creation in Genesis is correct.)

The chances of Moses "coincidentally" doing this is something like 1/34 in a SEXTILLION! (That's 1 in 21 0's)

Knowing this is scientific fact, we need to ask ourselves: Did Moses just make a "guess" about creation?

(Or, maybe someone told him how the universe was created. (Just as the Bible says it happened.)



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Here's a little more-

The Mathematical Order of Nature---

Before we explore the mathematical order of the quantum world any further, let’s return briefly to the order of the molecular biological world. We have suggested that it is the mathematical order of the universe that gives rise to its orderly function. We see this extraordinary order in the interior world of the living cell. A protein molecule, for example, functions the way it has been designed and programmed to function. Our cells are full of countless millions of highly intelligent protein molecules that maneuver around the interior world of the cell with great purpose and mechanical dexterity.

These protein molecules have recently been likened to miniature molecular machines that behave exactly like advanced technological machines that have been programmed to perform numerous complex functions. “Wetware” is the term that has been coined to describe cellular and biological mechanisms that resemble the operational complexity of computer software. This unfathomable complexity has led scientist Dennis Bray to recently release a book titled Wetware: A Computer in Every Living Cell.

At the time of Charles Darwin, the earliest microscopes revealed a disappointing vision of the cell. It was nothing more than a tiny black dot that mysteriously self-replicated into two tiny black dots. But as technology has advanced, the interior world of the cell is beginning to be revealed in all of its glorious complexity. The new vision of the cell is nothing short of astonishing.

Michael Denton, a molecular biologist, is more familiar with the cell than most people, spending much of his life staring down an electron microscope. He suggests that the interior life of a single cell resembles the complexity of a city!

To grasp the reality of life as it has been revealed by molecular biology, we must magnify a cell a thousand million times until it is twenty kilometers in diameter and resembles a giant airship large enough to cover a great city like London or New York. What we would then see would be an object of unparalleled complexity and adaptive design. On the surface of the cell we would see millions of openings, like the port holes of a vast space ship, opening and closing to allow a continual stream of materials to flow in and out. If we were to enter one of these openings we would find ourselves in a world of supreme technology and bewildering complexity. We would see endless highly organized corridors and conduits branching in every direction away from the perimeter of the cell, some leading to the central memory bank in the nucleus and others to assembly plants and processing units. The nucleus itself would be a vast spherical chamber more than a kilometer in diameter, resembling a geodesic dome inside of which we would see all neatly stacked together in ordered arrays, the miles of coiled chains of the DNA molecules. A huge range of products and raw materials would shuttle along all the manifold conduits in a highly ordered fashion to and from all the various assembly plants in the outer regions of the cell.


We would wonder at the level of control implicit in the movement of so many objects down so many seemingly endless conduits, all in perfect unison. We would see all around us, in every direction we looked, all sorts of robot-like machines. We would notice the simplest of the functional components of the cell, the protein molecules, were astonishingly, complex pieces of molecular machinery, each one consisting of about three thousand atoms arranged in highly organized 3-D spatial conformation. We would wonder even more as we watched the strangely purposeful activities of these weird molecular machines. We would see that nearly every feature of our own advanced machines had its analogue in the cell: artificial languages and their decoding systems, memory banks for information storage and retrieval, elegant control systems regulating the automated assembly of parts and components, error fail-safe and proof-reading devices utilized for quality control, assembly processes involving the principle of prefabrication and modular construction. In fact, so deep would be the feeling of déjà-vu, so persuasive the analogy, that much of the terminology we would use to describe this fascinating molecular reality would be borrowed from the world of late twentieth-century technology. What we would be witnessing would be an object resembling an immense automated factory, a factory larger than a city and carrying out almost as many unique functions as all the manufacturing activities of man on earth.

However, it would be a factory which would have one capacity not equaled in any of our own most advanced machines, for it would be capable of replicating its entire structure within a matter of a few hours. To witness such an act at a magnification of one thousand million times would be an awe-inspiring spectacle.”


The orderliness of nature is nowhere more clearly revealed than in the complex function of the molecular machines inside the cell. There are two main kinds of molecules in the cell: the protein molecules and the nucleic acids that carry genetic information. Nucleic acids constitute both the DNA molecules and the messenger RNA molecules. Messenger RNA (mRNA) molecules functions with an extraordinary intelligence as they enter the nucleus of a cell in search of a highly specific section of DNA code somewhere amongst the six gigabytes of coherent genetic information….


No matter where we look in observing nature we see this same pattern of seemingly intelligent molecules and atoms behaving as though they know exactly what they are doing. If you were to interrupt them and ask them what they are doing they would not be able to explain their pre-programmed behavior to you, but leave them to go on their merry way and you would observe them behaving with all the attributes of intelligence as they bond with their compatriots and function the way they are programmed to function.

It is extremely difficult to escape the conclusion that everything in the physical universe carries information in the form of programming so that it functions the way it was designed to function. This is why intelligent physicists describe the universe as a giant quantum computer at the sub-atomic level. It is no different to the argument that the cell behaves as a microcosmic super-computer complete with its information rich library of genetic material which functions as the blueprint for building every single living thing.

Max Planck was one of the greatest physicists of the 20th century. He is widely regarded as the founder of quantum mechanics. Because of his many contributions to the early development of quantum physics he was awarded the Nobel Prize for physics in 1918. In a speech titled “The Nature of Matter” presented in Florence, Italy, in 1944 he made a startling comment concerning the relationship between intelligence and matter:

As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you this much as a result of my research about atoms: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter.

Planck was perhaps unwittingly pointing toward the reality of the mind of God who has mysteriously programmed all of the building blocks of matter to come together in a glorious symphony of extraordinary intelligence. Information is the product of mind, not of pure random chance. The billions of atoms that constitute the genetic code within the nucleus of the cell mysteriously come together to construct a highly sophisticated biological library of coherent, intelligent data.

Six gigabytes of genetic information self-replicates in the space of one and a half hours! It is estimated that the DNA double helix strands of just one cell are made of approximately 150 billion atoms all held together through the mystery of atomic bonding. Wherever we study life at a molecular level, we are confronted not only by intelligent design but also by pre-programmed intelligent, operational behavior.

Max Planck suggested that the quantum world points toward the existence of a superior intelligent Mind in which “this Mind is the matrix of all matter.” Lothar Schafer, the distinguished professor of physical chemistry at the University of Arkansas agrees. He says,

In the quantum phenomena, we have discovered that reality is different from what we thought it was. Mental principles – numerical relations, mathematical forms, principles of symmetry – are the foundations of order in the universe, whose mind-like properties are further established by the fact that changes in information can act, without any direct physical intervention, as causal agents in observable changes in quantum states.

....>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Throughout history many great philosophers and thinkers have concluded that there is a higher reality that is expressed through the universal perfection of mathematics which is an expression of some sort of consciousness that permeates the universe. Sir Arthur Stanley Eddington, the famous English astrophysicist, said, “To put the conclusion crudely – the stuff of the world is mind-stuff...and the substratum of everything is of mental character.”

Schafer concludes that “By every molecule in our body we are tuned to the mind-stuff of the universe.”31 From the perspective of biblical revelation we understand that the universe is ultimately a creation that emerges from the mind of God and that the entire creation can be understood through the language of mathematics. Schafer sought to develop the relationship between “mind-stuff” and matter in the light of quantum mechanics.

Mason, Phil (2012-01-01). Quantum Glory: The Science of Heaven Invading Earth (p. 198). XP Publishing. Kindle Edition.


Yes, I think the Psalmist said it well-

Psalm 139:7-10 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.

Psalm 139:14 (NKJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, And that my soul knows very well.

The sad truth (for atheist) is the more science advances, the more science points to divine creation!

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Maine: I don't think there is a person alive today that can authenticate the accuracy of any given version of the Bible. We read what we can and continue to study. "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. II Timothy 2:15." I have several versions of the Bible and they essentially agree with each other. There may be a word different here or there but the message or meaning to be given to it remains the same. The Bible is our guide to the salvation of our souls and faith in God's word is what we use to lead us on our journey to Him. If one reads their Bible and adheres to it's teachings, I think God will not let us go astray over a misplaced punctuation point or missspelled word. You are absolutely right in that we are led by faith. If it wasn't for faith, wouldn't the Bible be just another book?

Trying to convince someone who does not believe in God is like trying to convince a Liberal that Conservatism is best. Nothing you say will convince them. It's like you are speaking a foreign language. The only thing that you can do is present them with the gospel and MAYBE the seeds will grow. They say that there are no atheists in fox holes. When they come face to face with death they convert. One day they may have to face something traumatic and need something to hold on to. Then they may turn to God. God does have a way of getting a person's attention. But there are some who will never give up their lack of belief. To them if there is no God then they are free to do anything and everything they do is OK. They seem to think they are giving up their freedom.
 
The sad truth (for atheist) is the more science advances, the more science points to divine creation!

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It does? One has to look back only a few hundred years to see that science or anything that may prove the "church" wrong in there eyes is killed or cast out. Now the science the church once punished people for speaking about and still does in many places is supposed to support it?

I like how when scientific facts are presented such as the complete revision of the bible itself are pointed out they are ignored and tossed aside only to next claim science supports it's teachings.
 
Once again, the key problem with atheism is that it lacks a strong “selling point.” They have no religion of their own, so the sole purpose of their existence revolves around attacking the validity of the Holy Bible. Knowing that they will fry, sizzle, and burn for all eternity, their greatest fear & hatred is derived from the fact that they can't prove that the Bible isn't true. Atheists are so opposed to anything linked to God that their fear & hatred gets in the way of common sense. As "Born Again" Christians, God's Word tells us that "No Ear Has Heard, No Eye Has Seen, Nor Has It Entered The Imagination Of Man, That Which God Has In Store For Those Who Love Him". The very same goes for the atheist and all of those unbelievers who scoff & mock Him. Knowing that eternity is outside of time, I can only explain eternity in terms of time as we know it in an effort for those who are ignorant will understand. That said, think of it this way...Being in Heaven one hundred trillion years from now, we Christians will be just sitting down for breakfast. And in all of those one hundred trillion years, explained in time as we know it, not even one second has yet passed compared to "ETERNITY". Being in HELL is no different. It's so very sad to think that "every second" (considering time as mentioned) that has passed in those one hundred trillion years, those being in HELL will still be begging for a drop of water to cool their tongue, and every second these "Fools By Choice" will still be remembering every time in "this life", that in their hatred they scoffed, mocked, and cursed God. God did not whitewash His truth. Likewise as Christians, not wanting that any should parish, we are not to whitewash His truth.
 
You're right Ringo. That's why I don't post much anymore in this thread.

Like I said; "Casting pearls before swine is an exercise in futility".

If atheist were serious and new what they were talking about, they could do a better job at presenting their case. The one FACT they don't understand is: "There is NO legitimate argument against the TRUTH!"

We know God's WORD is the TRUTH. Therefore, any argument "against" it will ALWAYS fall short. This leaves atheist with only one way to counter; so, they always resort to belittling others and making up lies & accusations to support their case.
 
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