My first scary experience

[Unfettered Might]

However the Revolutionary War was exactly that...a war against oppression, as was the Civil War, WWI/WWII, etc I have to say (between friends) that I have wanted to show someone a thing or two myself, too. However, with my job, I also see the other side as well. The Constitution / Amendments set Acts Of War and Criminal Acts as something very different. So, yes, I agree with the Revolutionary War issue.
As far as 'Predators prey on the weak and timid, they fear the strong.' and 'Where I came from, if you turned the other cheek, you got punched again. You turned and walked away, you got attacked from behind.", I also agree with that and see your side. I'm from New York originally, so I got my butt kicked countless times before I learned to defend myself. I'm also a history nut, hence my understanding of the Revolutionary and Civil wars.
From a friend, I don't wish prison for you. From an LEO standpoint, I cannot give you legal advice, especially that kind, however personal advice is okay.
I'm just a friend trying to help coach aanother friend. I hope you realize that. I intend no offense to you or anyone else.

Well my use of the revolutionary war was to point out that more men were men then than now, we have been in slow decline since. I could go so deep into this subject and it's causes, but that should be saved for another thread.

I appreciate your intentions, no offense taken, but I won't land myself in jail. I know my state's laws very well. In fact a common phrase is, "A Kentuckian never runs" and our laws reflect that. If you are justified in SD, you don't even have to so much as worry about a civil suit, let alone criminal charges. You can't even be arrested on scene, without RAS that it was not a case of SD.

In the OP's situation, I could have stopped the car and stepped out, letting them come to me. If there had been one, I could have whipped their butt and they would go to jail if LE showed up. If there had been more than one, I could shoot everyone of them, except the last one (unless he had a weapon, was exceptionally larger, or showed to be a trained fighter), whom I would have to fight.

The criminally minded have many things to fear here.

 

[KCD1974]

It's sort of disturbing to see just how many people really have the wrong idea of what carrying a firearm really means. Your responsibility as a CCW permit holder is not to "teach people a lesson" or to "be a man", it offers you the legal right to defend yourself in the event you fear for your life or great bodily harm. At least that's how it's written in MN.

Having someone following you in your car and acting like a jackass in no way shape or form poses a threat of death or great bodily harm. Now it could turn into that, but just in general no. If you think it's a good idea to jump out and teach them a lesson, well you'll be dead or in jail soon enough.

The best take away from the article posted about the FL incident...

"Something upset the victim enough to provoke him to get out of his car," Concepcion said. "Whatever it was, was it really worth having somebody dead right now? Was it really worth it for him to lose his life?"

What should be edited there is of course "Victim" to get out of his car as he wasn't the victim the driver that shot him was. He was the aggressor.

But the point is...do you really want to live with the fact that you killed someone over a traffic dispute? Sure you may not be charged with a crime, you may not be injured, but you'll have to live with the fact that you killed someone over tail gating and being an ass.

What if you get out, the other guy has a gun and shoots you, you shoot back kill him but you end up in a wheel chair for the rest of your life. You'll always wonder how much better it would have been to just pick up the phone dial 911 and hook up with the cops.

Now if that all breaks down and you have NO OTHER OPTION. Well, THAT is why you have a CCW.

A REAL man would be wise enough to know this....

 

[Unfettered Might]

It's sort of disturbing to see just how many people really have the wrong idea of what carrying a firearm really means. Your responsibility as a CCW permit holder is not to "teach people a lesson" or to "be a man", it offers you the legal right to defend yourself in the event you fear for your life or great bodily harm. At least that's how it's written in MN.

Having someone following you in your car and acting like a jackass in no way shape or form poses a threat of death or great bodily harm. Now it could turn into that, but just in general no. If you think it's a good idea to jump out and teach them a lesson, well you'll be dead or in jail soon enough.

The best take away from the article posted about the FL incident...

"Something upset the victim enough to provoke him to get out of his car," Concepcion said. "Whatever it was, was it really worth having somebody dead right now? Was it really worth it for him to lose his life?"

What should be edited there is of course "Victim" to get out of his car as he wasn't the victim the driver that shot him was. He was the aggressor.

But the point is...do you really want to live with the fact that you killed someone over a traffic dispute? Sure you may not be charged with a crime, you may not be injured, but you'll have to live with the fact that you killed someone over tail gating and being an ass.

What if you get out, the other guy has a gun and shoots you, you shoot back kill him but you end up in a wheel chair for the rest of your life. You'll always wonder how much better it would have been to just pick up the phone dial 911 and hook up with the cops.

Now if that all breaks down and you have NO OTHER OPTION. Well, THAT is why you have a CCW.

A REAL man would be wise enough to know this....

Look, I don't believe in running away from any fight, never have, never will and it hasn't killed me or landed me in jail yet.

How many stories do you think there are of people calling the cops, filing EPOs, dealing with them being arrested, they get out and then the victim ends up dead anyway?

You confront your adversary and they either put up or shut up, end of story. If they are gonna kill me, I'd rather it be face to face than from behind, or when I'm not expecting it, like some animal for slaughter.

Your assuming I would escalate the situation against a single opponent by drawing my firearm first. If they are gonna shoot me without me shooting first, they were gonna shoot me anyway. Against multiple opponents? Yep I would draw and order them to stop and then fire if they did not. If one of them got the bead on me, then I guess it was my time. But truth be told, if there are MULTIPLE opponents...lol I got something better than my sidearm.

As far as feeling bad about shooting someone....not really, not if they deserved it and that's a high bar for me. But once they've crossed that line, I'll sleep just fine.

 

[rdc2co]

I get the feeling...

that no matter what we all say, Unfettered Might will never change his mind. Sorry Buddy, but I guess it's obvious....I call things the way I see them. You do, also, which is the beauty of the First Amendment. Let's all hope to God that caps don't try to change THAT one....

 

[Unfettered Might]

that no matter what we all say, Unfettered Might will never change his mind. Sorry Buddy, but I guess it's obvious....I call things the way I see them. You do, also, which is the beauty of the First Amendment. Let's all hope to God that caps don't try to change THAT one....

Couldn't agree more and I respect your resolve.

 

[tommy62]

This site has me wondering what kind of ******* are out there carrying. Unless you are a female pull over, if they come at you with a weapon you do the same. If they don't ,bring the knuckles. Don't ccw to make up for a lack of balls.

If you're gonna be dumb...you better be tough.

 

[JeepFreak]

Yeah, I would have dialed 1911!






I mean 911 :biggrin:
Billy

 

[Auroarah]

Agree

Defiantly call 911, and get the cops on their tails, and yours. If there is a next time, drive to the police station if you can. I live in a rural part of Mississippi, and know that it's not always pratical to drive out of the way like that, but if it saves your life...
If they would have run you off the road, would you have time to call 911, or get to your gun?
So many crazy people in the world. :wacko:
Another thing I would like to add: I'm glad that nothing happened to you, but there's a reason you carry that gun... probably the same reason a lot of us do. And it's not beacuse were some jerk off bully trying to be a bigwig. :sarcastic:
TC, be safe. handle well.

 

[Auroarah]

have to agree

Look, I don't believe in running away from any fight, never have, never will and it hasn't killed me or landed me in jail yet.

How many stories do you think there are of people calling the cops, filing EPOs, dealing with them being arrested, they get out and then the victim ends up dead anyway?

You confront your adversary and they either put up or shut up, end of story. If they are gonna kill me, I'd rather it be face to face than from behind, or when I'm not expecting it, like some animal for slaughter.

Your assuming I would escalate the situation against a single opponent by drawing my firearm first. If they are gonna shoot me without me shooting first, they were gonna shoot me anyway. Against multiple opponents? Yep I would draw and order them to stop and then fire if they did not. If one of them got the bead on me, then I guess it was my time. But truth be told, if there are MULTIPLE opponents...lol I got something better than my sidearm.

As far as feeling bad about shooting someone....not really, not if they deserved it and that's a high bar for me. But once they've crossed that line, I'll sleep just fine.

You can only take so much crap in life! And I agree, with you totally.

 

[IWLAFART]

It always seems that the drama always happens to a newbie with only 7 posts.
I have to take this incident with a grain of salt. Get some training and learn situational awareness and don't read into a situation what is not there.

 

[3dburns]

Another nube chiming in. Here's an interesting, real video of a similar situation. the bad guys were filming the chase. The guy tried to out run them, but got caught on a dead end street.

Situations can always be handled differently, we all have our opinions. I have been in plenty of scraps in my time. I am not worried about standing my ground. As a ccw, or oc, we have an obligation to ourselves, our families & our communities to be responsible, & most importantly SURVIVE. Not to be the baddest! The gun is a last resort, when all else fails. For me, it's all about making sure I get home safely for my family.

Just my nubie opinion.

 

[Auroarah]

It always seems that the drama always happens to a newbie with only 7 posts.
I have to take this incident with a grain of salt. Get some training and learn situational awareness and don't read into a situation what is not there.

Newbie or not, COMMON Sense, Survival of the Fittest, smartest, etc. should be key here.
And how can you assess the situation if you were not involved? Talk about reading something that isn't there. Take it with a grain of salt, pepper and some other spices if you like, obviously it didn't happen to you, and if it did, I'm sure you would have shot first and asked questions later. :sarcastic:

 

[rdc2co]

Good call, nubie!

"Just my nubie opinion."
Good call 3dburns! Anti-gunners are looking to hang you and will use any chance they can get. Only one bad incident can make all of us look bad, too. All the Rambo-types make us look bad.
A buddy gave me a t-shirt;

You have the right to remain silent
Anything you say will be misquoted and used against you​

This applies to the anti-gunners, biased jurors, politicians, etc. It can be based on all the Bernard Goetz and Jered Lee Loughner types.
Everyone, please be mindful of what you say in public and to whom you say it. Also be mindful of what you do, because YOU REPRESENT ALL OF US. I'm stepping off my soap-box for today.

 

[Auroarah]

Another nube chiming in. Here's an interesting, real video of a similar situation. the bad guys were filming the chase. The guy tried to out run them, but got caught on a dead end street.

YouTube - Rednecks Mess With Wrong Bull

Situations can always be handled differently, we all have our opinions. I have been in plenty of scraps in my time. I am not worried about standing my ground. As a ccw, or oc, we have an obligation to ourselves, our families & our communities to be responsible, & most importantly SURVIVE. Not to be the baddest! The gun is a last resort, when all else fails. For me, it's all about making sure I get home safely for my family.

Just my nubie opinion.

I heard that, I did...:sarcastic:

 

[rdc2co]

Situation played out in the video...

Another nube chiming in. Here's an interesting, real video of a similar situation. the bad guys were filming the chase. The guy tried to out run them, but got caught on a dead end street.

YouTube - Rednecks Mess With Wrong Bull

Situations can always be handled differently, we all have our opinions. I have been in plenty of scraps in my time. I am not worried about standing my ground. As a ccw, or oc, we have an obligation to ourselves, our families & our communities to be responsible, & most importantly SURVIVE. Not to be the baddest! The gun is a last resort, when all else fails. For me, it's all about making sure I get home safely for my family.

Just my nubie opinion.

This is what I see in the video. The driver of the BMW knew that he had a problem. Sticking up their middle fingers simply encouraged the situation. That was a bad idea. Going on a dirt road with a low sports car was also stupid. I applaud him for trying to get away from the truck, though.
However the guy with a bat had a deadly weapon. He had the means (bat), motive (bad attitude- wanting to show off), and opportunity (faster truck and dead-end street) to cause death or great bodily injury. The BMW driver exercised great restraint in not shooting the bat-guy, but probably would have been justified in shooting if bat-guy advanced anyway.
That's my opinion, anyway.

 

[NM-1911]

It seems that there are some people in need of an alarm clock. WAKE UP! Our rights are being challenged daily and the last thing that we need is an uninformed populace reading some of these posts. If you carry, whether open or concealed, you have an obligation to diffuse, deter, or run away if you can, before you brandish or discharge your weapon. Not to mention there are legal implications of taunting or standing your ground when you have the option to escape. Survival 101: Evade and Escape. It doesn't take a man to stand there and pull out a gun, any punk gangbanger can do that. It takes a man to do the right thing and walk away when you really want to punish somebody. It takes a person with a strong sense of honor and self-control to do that but isn't that what we want from those who carry? That's not a squirtgun you've got tucked into that holster, and having to actually use it to defend yourself will have implications far beyond what you can imagine. The anti-gun lobby has been in a frenzy since the tragedy in Arizona, let's not give them any ammunition to use against us. They already paint us as crazed madmen just waiting to shoot some "innocent" people, don't feed into their hands. Wise up and use discretion and give realistic, sane advice when someone asks for it. We want the non-carrying public to know that we aren't walking around with our gun, itching for a fight. Drawing and/or firing your weapon is only ok when you have exhausted ALL other options.
Nuff said.

ArmyRanger, I could not agree with you more. WAY before I ever even owned a firearm, I had a Marine SF friend teach me about firearms. As a kid I was very impressionable. One of the things he continually pounded into my skull is E&E. Unless you truly have no other options you never "go for your gun".

 

[Phoenix_1295]

One very important point - don't drive to your home or your neighborhood. You don't want someone who is following you to figure out where they prey on or your family.

The others have hit on the key actions to take:

1) Call 911
2) Stay on main roads (don't want to end up on deserted or dead-end road)
3) Drive toward/to closest police station
4) Study vehicle - make, model, color, tag if possible, number of occupants, occupant descriptions
5) If carrying, make sure firearm is in position that you can access if needed (many don't consider how they would/could draw their weapon when seatbelted in vehicle)

Phoenix

 

[Unfettered Might]

It always seems that the drama always happens to a newbie with only 7 posts.
I have to take this incident with a grain of salt. Get some training and learn situational awareness and don't read into a situation what is not there.

Yeah that did cross my mind too, but I chose to let it slide and take them for their word.

 

[Ruger357SP101]

I'm a newbie to the gun world. I've been carrying/shooting for a year now. Today I had two men in a white Chevy Lumina followed me today when I came home from work. flashing their high beams, yelling they were gonna kill me and pointing their fingers out of the window shaped like guns. I'm sure I didn't do anything wrong to upset them. They kept signaling me to pull over so I took off at a high rate of... speed to loose them. Luckily, i lost them in a winding neighborhood. They are lucky too, I'm sure they weren't expecting to run down a CCW permit carrier. I didn't want them to find out either, or meet my 1911. Gotta say, I was actually pretty calm, but definitely scared:cray:. What would you do in this situation?

Drive to a police station or a parked cop and point the car out to a LEO before they can drive away.
Or if you have a cell phone call the local PD or sheriff, tell them whats going on and have them instruct you where to drive to.

 

[Ruger357SP101]

This site has me wondering what kind of ******* are out there carrying. Unless you are a female pull over, if they come at you with a weapon you do the same. If they don't ,bring the knuckles. Don't ccw to make up for a lack of balls.

Gotta love you tough guys.

As a man who USED to pull over, I can honesty say if you are packing a gun DO NOT pull over for them if you can get away.
If you end up having to shoot them and you willingly pull over knowing you have a gun and could have gotten away you are asking for a murder charge if you kill someone.

Dont let tough guys get YOU arrested and charged.