Let me add one thing to this that I have failed to mention... It would be nice if we didnt have to worry if we were breaking some "law" when we cross any State line while armed...... That would be wonderful. but the reality is we cannot.....
Those who are working to change this have their heart in the right place, dont get me wrong.... But they have it in their head that all those UnConstitutional "laws" are valid..... that is the wrong place to start, and is not a valid/strong foundation at all...
You need to get down to the root (foundation) to be able to do things correctly, otherwise you are just wasting time and giving your approval of those false "laws" and defeating yourself before you even begin...
There is US Supreme Court precedent that ANY "Law" that does not line up (infringes) upon the Constitution and BOR is invalid on its face, and we dont have to follow it... So, WHY are you FIGHTING FOR something that only FURTHER validates this so-called laws power when it has none to begin with?
*steps off soapbox and goes home*
If you dont understand it by now, I fear that you never will... and it proves that we are further down the road to tyranny than even I thought possible........ because those that think they are helping are actually hurting our cause...... and refuse to see /acknowledge that truth.
Like what? Would you include serial number requirements there? That is, you wouldn't require any manufacturer to put serial numbers on firearms? Be kind of hard to prove that's your gun then, wouldn't it?Well thought out and articulated post.... But I still have to disagree with the entire premise on the grounds that any legislation that has ANYTHING to do with firearms is UnConstitutional.
Those in the "gun community" have no business supporting anything other than full repeal of all firearms laws and regulations
Neither do you.Do what you want, just don't go trying to say you represent the ENTIRE "gun" community with your "views" because you don't.
Well thought out and articulated post.... But I still have to disagree with the entire premise on the grounds that any legislation that has ANYTHING to do with firearms is UnConstitutional.
Those in the "gun community" have no business supporting anything other than full repeal of all firearms laws and regulations, anything else is a compromise, and that is how we got to the situation we find ourselves in now... Yet here we are, divided, with most of us fighting for further infringements, as if it is going to help...
Insanity = doing the same thing again (compromising) and expecting different results..... The "system" is broken, has been for years, yet there are those on here who still fight for it, amazing..
Oh well, I have repeated myself many times here and still not very many people actually listened, (not that I am one worth listening to) Do what you want, just dont go trying to say you represent the ENTIRE "gun" community with your "views" because you dont....
Like what? Would you include serial number requirements there? That is, you wouldn't require any manufacturer to put serial numbers on firearms? Be kind of hard to prove that's your gun then, wouldn't it?
"All firearms laws" is a pretty big brush, and even if you were somehow able to do that, what about the private property rights of all those businesses that say you can't bring your gun in here?
Haven't seen you weigh in on this thread yet: http://www.usacarry.com/forums/fire...ld-convicted-felon-allowed-carry-firearm.html I assume you're fine with allowing felons to regain their RKBA immediately?
What about carrying while drinking? Should that be legal? Should drinking and driving then be legal? I'd say a reasonable person has to have those laws agree.
Neither do you.
Of course the laws are valid in that they are not going to be thrown out and they are going to be enforced. It is absurd to ram your head into that brick wall. The facts are what they are. The laws are unconstitutional but they are not going to go away.
You can yell and scream and carry on but the laws are not going to be thrown out. The reasonable solution is to start getting incremental laws passed to take our rights and the Constitution back.
Exactly how does this bill violate the 10th amendment? Maybe you should read exactly what that amendment says.
I think you have missed or not thought of another aspect to this... you can simply refuse to obey those UnConstitutional "laws" themselves.....
If enough of us do so... then the "law" will no longer have any "teeth"...
I am not advocating flaunting it in the face of some thug with a badge... but standing up for what is right has always had some risks involved.....
I have made a decision that may get me killed one day... Not that I want that to happen, but I will NOT tolerate my "Rights" to be stepped on, period.......
In today's court system, where 99% of the time the "state" wins.... What other choice have they left those who will not back up one more inch? Think about it.... If I know that I will lose even before they attempt to arrest me.......... What other choices do I have? Not many.....
Yet I am actually willing to die for my beliefs... are they?
Read my signature if you are having trouble following along.... (but please do not think I am advocating anything like murder, as I am explicitly not.. Murder is always wrong, even when you have a badge on your chest...self-defense on the other hand is entirely "lawful" even if THEY think it isnt...)
If there is ANY hope for this country, many more will have to make this type of decision for themselves.... I just happen to be one that has made it before you have... It is PAST time for real Americans to "man up"
cmhbob, I promise you that you (I am assuming here what I think your views are, based on what you wrote) will NOT like what I have to say about "property rights"........ Maybe you should do a search here on "business property" to see what my views are.....
A little primer for ya: My personal (Constitutional/BOR) Rights do NOT end or disappear on "your" physical property, end of discussion.......
PS... I have now posted in the "should a felon..." thread, enjoy.........
Perhaps you can first explain to us why you think it does NOT violate it?
Let's see, ignore the law, and then go to jail after an expensive court date. Hmm. Doesn't sound all that appealing to me. Go ahead and die for your "beliefs" but don't expect any kudo's. The American public is too far gone for a sweeping change to Constitutional law. We have to take back our rights the way we lost them, a little bit at at time. But, we have die hard purists that want to stand in the way of that. And no, I don't believe your bravado.
Axeanda45:239254 said:Exactly how does this bill violate the 10th amendment? Maybe you should read exactly what that amendment says.
Perhaps you can first explain to us why you think it does NOT violate it?
You made the claim, you need to back it up. I think you are wrong. Can you convince otherwise or are you going to just try to make your claim someone else's responsibility to explain?
Sorry, but my property rights reign on my property. If you want to do something I don't want on my property, you will not or you will leave, or you will go to jail for trespass.
Allow me. Ill simplify.
The 2A affirms the right to keep and bear arms.
The 10A states, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution (which the 14A is a delegated power), nor prohibited by it to the states (again the 14A IS AN AMENDMENT THAT WAS AGREED ON BY 2/3s of the SENATE, the POTUS and 3/4ths of the STATES.....the rest of the amendment doesn't matter because the 14A is a delegated power.
The 14A affirms that, "No state shall make or enforce any law that abridges the privileges or immunities of a citizen of the united states" This grants Congress the power to overrule a state law that violates our rights.
They can use the power only for our benefit, so all this nonsense about them taking control is just that. If people want to get bent out of shape, do it over the commerce clause, the one they really have bastardized to control so many things they shouldnt. They ALREADY have self granted sweeping power, NICS check, Brady Bill, etc.
For once those pricks in Congress are reading it right and implementing a power delegated properly.
Sigh....
If you took your head out long enough to think a little, you might possibly figure something out.....
Like what it is that I said in that post you just quoted...
Axeanda45:239293 said:Allow me. Ill simplify.
The 2A affirms the right to keep and bear arms.
The 10A states, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution (which the 14A is a delegated power), nor prohibited by it to the states (again the 14A IS AN AMENDMENT THAT WAS AGREED ON BY 2/3s of the SENATE, the POTUS and 3/4ths of the STATES.....the rest of the amendment doesn't matter because the 14A is a delegated power.
The 14A affirms that, "No state shall make or enforce any law that abridges the privileges or immunities of a citizen of the united states" This grants Congress the power to overrule a state law that violates our rights.
They can use the power only for our benefit, so all this nonsense about them taking control is just that. If people want to get bent out of shape, do it over the commerce clause, the one they really have bastardized to control so many things they shouldnt. They ALREADY have self granted sweeping power, NICS check, Brady Bill, etc.
For once those pricks in Congress are reading it right and implementing a power delegated properly.
Your argument (which still fails to go deep enough, to the foundation...) is IGNORING the FACT that this is still legislation about Firearms and the Bearing of such..... which the GOVT is PROHIBITED to have anything at all to do with..... Yet your insistence that this legislation which will FORCE the States to adhere to another States UNCONSTITUTIONAL infringement (this is where the 10th comes in)is actually NOT an infringement is a joke to me, sorry.
The 10th has a little phrase that you are IGNORING that say's "nor prohibited by it" what do you think that means? Here is a hint: Un-Constitutional = Prohibited, PERIOD.....
"The 14A affirms that, "No state shall make or enforce any law that abridges the privileges or immunities of a citizen of the united states" This grants Congress the power to overrule a state law that violates our rights."
Again, Congress does NOT have ANY "power" when it comes to firearms, period, end of story, no matter how you try to present it, it is STILL a "law" that will have something to do with something they can have NOTHING to do with.....
Now, IF they got some smarts, and some balls, the COULD use the 14th to ABOLISH ALL STATES FIREARMS LAWS... That would be a valid use of that Amendment... But that would be a fantasy for sure.... They wont ever give up the power they have stolen without a fight...
The 14A is only available as a power delegated to ENFORCE the Bill of Rights in this context, not to restrict. I tried and you still fail to comprehend.
Congress has the power to enforce the bill of rights all day long, 365 days a year with an extra day every four years bud.
OK smart guy, feel free to show me how the 14A can be used to restrict a right.
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