Does Pa law define concealed as "on the person" (I'm in Ks and don't know) since many states consider under a vehicle seat to be concealed
Most laws define it based on loaded or unloaded. To have it locked up unloaded in a car separate from its ammunition does not require any license in most states. When loaded, most states require a license to carry it in a car. I dont believe you are breaking the law If you have a license to carry and decide that while in your car, you are going to remove it from your person and put it under the seat or in the glove box. I believe it's addressed in the "exceptions" sections 11 and 13 on the below site.
18 Pa.C.S. § 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license
Again, I don't think it matters as your legal and in /on your property which allows you the right to possess a loaded firearm if licensed. That being said, I would do it discreetly not to draw attention or brandishing charges. To be certain, call your state 's attorney general and ask.
i had lengthy discussions on this subject with several leo's and the sherriffs office (local issue location)
going by Pa laws, open carry [on foot] is lawful without a ltc, [correct] but discouraged
[LOL... 'discouraged'? Discouraged in what way? By whom and who cares? For anyone in a position of authority to attempt to get you (or me) to avoid doing something that is legal commits the crime of Official Oppression. The US and PA Constitution both say bearing arms is our right, and the PA legislature says it is legal. I really don't care who doesn't like it.]
open carry does include when riding a motor cycle since the weapon is still visible,
[Incorrect. A Pa LTCF (or license or permit from *any* state) is required to carry a loaded firearm in ANY vehicle, or to carry it to anyplace other than the short list of exceptions such as, directly to the range and directly back home, a gunsmith or gun shop, etc. Open carry versus concealed carry and motorcyle versus automobile have nothing to do with it. Here is the legal definition for vehicle when the term is used outside the Motor Vehicle Code:
"Vehicle." A conveyance in or on which persons or property may be carried.
Please note that there is no exception for motorcycles, or "because it is visible".
...but in the confines of a vehicle it must be cased seperate from the ammunition and not within reach or "control" of the occupants as it is not readily visible [not if you have your PA LTCF or license or permit from any other state. What you are saying here only applies to unlicensed transport. Furthermore, there is no legal requirement that it be "not readily visible" or "not within reach or control of the occupants". The statue literally says "Any person while carrying a firearm which is not loaded and is in a secure wrapper" ...18 Pa C.S. 6106(b)(8)
Link: http://www.pa2a.org/wiki.php?wid=23
this also includes long arms, which generally fall under the game commiission and must be unloaded and out of reach when being transported "unless the operator is in possession of a ltc" [Incorrect again. Even with a PA LTCF, long guns must be transported unloaded!]
hope this helps
Curmudgeon,
Thanks for your input. I would like to add, that a bicycle is also considered a "vehicle" in PA, and as such would require a LTCF in either an open or concealed carry manner. I've had many a discussion with people on this. One just needs to read PA 18 CS 6106 (Section 6109 - Title 18 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES) and know the definition of vehicle in the Motor Vehicle Code.
This is why I urge anyone who open carries to get a LTCF to cover their butt.
1 Pa.C.S § 1991. Definitions.
The following words and phrases, when used in any statute finally enacted on or after September 1,
1937, unless the context clearly indicates otherwise, shall have the meanings given to them in this
section:
<skip>
"Vehicle." A conveyance in or on which persons or property may be carried.
"Vehicle."
Every device in, upon or by which any person or property is or
may be transported or drawn upon a highway, except devices used exclusively
upon rails or tracks. The term does not include a self-propelled wheelchair
or an electrical mobility device operated by and designed for the exclusive
use of a person with a mobility-related disability.
Thanks for the clarification... that's why I love these forums, especially when you find someone who has done their research well.
Pennsylvania has no concealed permit. It has a licence to carry firearms which allows you to conceal or print or partially conceal. To carry in a vehicle you need a LTCF and then you may conceal, partly conceal, carry owb lay it on the seat or hang it from your earrings. Pa has no brandishing law if somebody happens to see it and you are not threatening somebody with it.
Codes only tell you what you can't do not what you can do.
My understanding is, "yes". In PA one can have a loaded handgun in one's vehicle (not on one's person) IF one has a PA LTCF.
The cover letter that accompanied my LTCF from the Sheriff's Office specifically cautions against leaving a CCW weapon unattended in one's car as a bad idea. It is advised against, but it is NOT forbidden.
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