Firearms and vehicles


wolf_fire

New member
I've thoroughly read through Title 18, 6106. I'll post it here http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.061.009.000..HTM
§ 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.
(a) Offense defined.--
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who
carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a
firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place
of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and
lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony
of the third degree.

Ok, here is a question that was posed to me, and I really couldn't answer him with authority. Hopefully, someone here can. The question was, if one has a LTCF in PA and is in one's vehicle and feels like taking off one's firearm, what is the legal code in doing so? According to Title 18, 6106, it seems as if you can carry open in a vehicle with a LTCF or carry concealed anywhere with a LTCF except where normally prohibited. So again the question, can one have a LOADED handgun in the vehicle IF it is not on one's person? Please give sources for your answer. Thank you.
 

Last edited:

cwm1611

New member
Does Pa law define concealed as "on the person" (I'm in Ks and don't know) since many states consider under a vehicle seat to be concealed
 

JohnR003

New member
I've always understood that if it's in/on a vehicle it's carried and needs an LTCF. "Open or concealed"
 

TroutStalker

New member
Most laws define it based on loaded or unloaded. To have it locked up unloaded in a car separate from its ammunition does not require any license in most states. When loaded, most states require a license to carry it in a car. I dont believe you are breaking the law If you have a license to carry and decide that while in your car, you are going to remove it from your person and put it under the seat or in the glove box. I believe it's addressed in the "exceptions" sections 11 and 13 on the below site.

http://reference.pafoa.org/statutes/PA/18/II/G/61/A/6106/firearms-not-to-be-carried-without-a-license/

Again, I don't think it matters as your legal and in /on your property which allows you the right to possess a loaded firearm if licensed. That being said, I would do it discreetly not to draw attention or brandishing charges. To be certain, call your state 's attorney general and ask.
 

HD-kutz

New member
Pennsylvania has no concealed permit. It has a licence to carry firearms which allows you to conceal or print or partially conceal. To carry in a vehicle you need a LTCF and then you may conceal, partly conceal, carry owb lay it on the seat or hang it from your earrings. Pa has no brandishing law if somebody happens to see it and you are not threatening somebody with it.

Codes only tell you what you can't do not what you can do.
 

wolf_fire

New member
Most laws define it based on loaded or unloaded. To have it locked up unloaded in a car separate from its ammunition does not require any license in most states. When loaded, most states require a license to carry it in a car. I dont believe you are breaking the law If you have a license to carry and decide that while in your car, you are going to remove it from your person and put it under the seat or in the glove box. I believe it's addressed in the "exceptions" sections 11 and 13 on the below site.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license

Again, I don't think it matters as your legal and in /on your property which allows you the right to possess a loaded firearm if licensed. That being said, I would do it discreetly not to draw attention or brandishing charges. To be certain, call your state 's attorney general and ask.

TroutStalker,

Thank you for redirecting me to the exceptions clause. You are spot on. Exception 11 is exactly what my friend needed to read. I appreciate your help.

wolf_fire
 

oldemagics

New member
i had lengthy discussions on this subject with several leo's and the sherriffs office (local issue location)
going by Pa laws, open carry is lawful without a ltc, but discouraged
open carry does include when riding a motor cycle since the weapon is still visible, but in the confines of a vehicle it must be cased seperate from the ammunition and not within reach or "control" of the occupants as it is not readily visible

this also includes long arms, which generally fall under the game commiission and must be unloaded and out of reach when being transported "unless the operator is in possession of a ltc"

hope this helps
 

Curmudgeon

New member
i had lengthy discussions on this subject with several leo's and the sherriffs office (local issue location)
going by Pa laws, open carry [on foot] is lawful without a ltc, [correct] but discouraged

[LOL... 'discouraged'? Discouraged in what way? By whom and who cares? For anyone in a position of authority to attempt to get you (or me) to avoid doing something that is legal commits the crime of Official Oppression. The US and PA Constitution both say bearing arms is our right, and the PA legislature says it is legal. I really don't care who doesn't like it.]


open carry does include when riding a motor cycle since the weapon is still visible,

[Incorrect. A Pa LTCF (or license or permit from *any* state) is required to carry a loaded firearm in ANY vehicle, or to carry it to anyplace other than the short list of exceptions such as, directly to the range and directly back home, a gunsmith or gun shop, etc. Open carry versus concealed carry and motorcyle versus automobile have nothing to do with it. Here is the legal definition for vehicle when the term is used outside the Motor Vehicle Code:
"Vehicle." A conveyance in or on which persons or property may be carried.

Please note that there is no exception for motorcycles, or "because it is visible".

...but in the confines of a vehicle it must be cased seperate from the ammunition and not within reach or "control" of the occupants as it is not readily visible [not if you have your PA LTCF or license or permit from any other state. What you are saying here only applies to unlicensed transport. Furthermore, there is no legal requirement that it be "not readily visible" or "not within reach or control of the occupants". The statue literally says "Any person while carrying a firearm which is not loaded and is in a secure wrapper" ...18 Pa C.S. 6106(b)(8)

Link:
http://www.pa2a.org/wiki.php?wid=23

this also includes long arms, which generally fall under the game commiission and must be unloaded and out of reach when being transported "unless the operator is in possession of a ltc" [Incorrect again. Even with a PA LTCF, long guns must be transported unloaded!]

hope this helps


My corrections in red. You take a big chance relying on others to read the law for you and much of what you have been told is incorrect and could get you some serious convictions, and prohibited from firearms possession for life.

Here are several sources for the Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act...

Link Removed

Pa.C.S. 18, II, G, 61, A: Uniform Firearms Act

Pennsylvania Gun Laws - American Gun Owners Alliance

And the link "wolf_fire" has posted in his original post, above.

I am not a lawyer. Firearms laws in PA can be really confusing and while it can be fun to check with various sources, you always want to double check the statutes for yourself and see what they say, then ask questions relating to specific items for clarification. Too much can be misunderstood through conversation, and I have yet to find anyone who has memorized all 170 pages of the Pa. U.F.A. If I have posted anything confusing please ask and I will find and quote specific citations of law.

For the more than 4 1/2 years I have open-carried throughout Pennsylvania, full time, and I have yet to have a problem with it. On the contrary, I have had some awesome conversations with literally hundreds of people regarding carry and the 2nd Amendment. Of course, your mileage my vary, but no one has even attempted to discourage me. :happy:
 

wolf_fire

New member
Curmudgeon,

Thanks for your input. I would like to add, that a bicycle is also considered a "vehicle" in PA, and as such would require a LTCF in either an open or concealed carry manner. I've had many a discussion with people on this. One just needs to read PA 18 CS 6106 (http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.061.009.000..HTM) and know the definition of vehicle in the Motor Vehicle Code.

This is why I urge anyone who open carries to get a LTCF to cover their butt.
 

Curmudgeon

New member
Curmudgeon,

Thanks for your input. I would like to add, that a bicycle is also considered a "vehicle" in PA, and as such would require a LTCF in either an open or concealed carry manner. I've had many a discussion with people on this. One just needs to read PA 18 CS 6106 (Section 6109 - Title 18 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES) and know the definition of vehicle in the Motor Vehicle Code.

This is why I urge anyone who open carries to get a LTCF to cover their butt.


Indeed, however, the definition for vehicle I used was not found in the motor vehicle code as it does not apply
in the statutes...

Link Removed

1 Pa.C.S § 1991. Definitions.

The following words and phrases, when used in any statute finally enacted on or after September 1,

1937, unless the context clearly indicates otherwise, shall have the meanings given to them in this

section:

<skip>

"Vehicle." A conveyance in or on which persons or property may be carried.


Here is the one from the Vehicle Code:

http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/vehicle_code/chapter1.pdf

"Vehicle."

Every device in, upon or by which any person or property is or

may be transported or drawn upon a highway, except devices used exclusively

upon rails or tracks. The term does not include a self-propelled wheelchair

or an electrical mobility device operated by and designed for the exclusive

use of a person with a mobility-related disability.

I am not a lawyer, and I'm not sure how to apply the difference in a practical way as an
experienced attorney might, but those differences might become significant under certain
circumstances. The PA Vehicle Code makes and exception for trains, the definition in
the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes does not.
.
 

wolf_fire

New member
Thanks for the clarification... that's why I love these forums, especially when you find someone who has done their research well.
 

Curmudgeon

New member
Thanks for the clarification... that's why I love these forums, especially when you find someone who has done their research well.

Thanks for the compliment, but all I am doing is passing along information, research, links, and citations of law that I have found on
this and other forums.
This is exactly how I learned. Like you I saw the incredible value in it and I'm trying to pass it along for others the way it was done for me.

Invaluable, isn't it?
 

SasquatchisReal

New member
Pennsylvania has no concealed permit. It has a licence to carry firearms which allows you to conceal or print or partially conceal. To carry in a vehicle you need a LTCF and then you may conceal, partly conceal, carry owb lay it on the seat or hang it from your earrings. Pa has no brandishing law if somebody happens to see it and you are not threatening somebody with it.

Codes only tell you what you can't do not what you can do.

It does say license to carry but it's for concealed only, open carry requires no permit or even an ID of any kind. If you're not breaking a law then you don't even have to respond to police. Like you say though, if it's not stated be illegal in title 18 or title 75 then it's not illegal, it's what you can't do not what you can do. You can walk down the street with your pistol open carried and you do not need ANY permit or ID and you can even sling a rifle over your shoulder and carry that down the street with no ID or permit of any kind. Both actions are legal. They changed the title of the permit to license to carry but it is for concealed carry because to conceal carry you need a license in pa. that's why you don't need anything to open carry. You're right about in a car even hanging it from your ears lol. good point.
 

Curmudgeon

New member
In addition to conceal-carry the LTCF allows for:
Carrying open or concealed during a declared state of emergency (which is currently in effect in PA),
Open-carry and conceal-carry in Philadelphia,
Open-carry and conceal-carry in a vehicle
Open-carry and conceal-carry within the federal 1000' gun free school zones.

Not just for "concealed only". ;)
 

twage

New member
This sentence is from the PA. State Police Website, A License to Carry Firearms is issued to carry a firearm concealed on one’s person or in a vehicle within this Commonwealth. More detailed info is there and should be completely read and understood. but I hope that helps.
 

Paco

New member
My understanding is, "yes". In PA one can have a loaded handgun in one's vehicle (not on one's person) IF one has a PA LTCF.
The cover letter that accompanied my LTCF from the Sheriff's Office specifically cautions against leaving a CCW weapon unattended in one's car as a bad idea. It is advised against, but it is NOT forbidden.
 

Curmudgeon

New member
My understanding is, "yes". In PA one can have a loaded handgun in one's vehicle (not on one's person) IF one has a PA LTCF.
The cover letter that accompanied my LTCF from the Sheriff's Office specifically cautions against leaving a CCW weapon unattended in one's car as a bad idea. It is advised against, but it is NOT forbidden.

Correction - yes you can have a loaded handgun on your person in or on a vehicle, open or concealed, or any way you choose.

I do agree that leaving any gun in a car is a bad idea simply because cars are so easily broken into and/or stolen, and even though there
are many safe-type devices available I refuse to do it. In the event I am forced to take my handgun to my car, I am leaving where ever I
am, WITH my firearm. In the past 5 1/2 years it has not been an issue.

If any confusion or doubt remains, please just say so. I am subscribed to this thread, I will be emailed about your response, I will provide
any sources or citations that might assist you. I have a busy weekend planned so bear with me.
 

JimTh

Banned
Wow...you need a license to carry a firearm in Pennsylvania...in a car too? Unfrickin believable. Boy do I love Virginia! Do the gang bangers in Philly or Pittsburgh give a rats butt about a carry license. I bet they drive around the hood all day long with loaded 9's and 40's. Do your state politicians know that the ones they were trying to prevent from carrying weapons in their cars are not obeying the law. How much safer is Pennsylvania now that you guys that always obey the law continued to obey the laws after they became law? Unreal!!!!
 

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