Church carry

I am interested in talking to my church to get permission to carry during service, I would like to know the legality of this. The snag is the fact that there is a private preschool that meets in our church building during the week, does this pose any issue?

thanks
Jserepair

I'm not a lawyer, so take this with a grain of salt, but if school isn't going on while you're there for Sunday service, then there shouldn't be a problem.

As long as it's your church building and not a school that you are meeting in, it shouldn't be a problem. Check your state law. In NC we can carry in church unless it's posted. In SC, you must have written permission from the church.

To jserepair....

Asking questions on the internet is a good way to get advice ... and here is my advice:

Please understand that internet advice should always be researched against the actual laws of the State where you want to carry in church.

Please consider searching for:

-->your State's name here<-- firearms laws

and/or several different variations of that idea.

That way you will get definitive answers straight from the laws themselves.

I'm not trying to be a jerk... only trying to help you understand that just because someone said so on the internet that doesn't mean what was said is actual black letter law.

I am from Michigan, and a CPL holder...and as far as carrying in church...you MUST get Pastor's written permission to carry on church grounds. Because there is a Daycare during the week in the building...you may be on shaky ground since MI prohibits carrying on school grounds...even if the school is not in session. PLEASE double check with the MI Laws...and your Pastor. Do not do anything to jeopardize your right to carry.

I live in PA, carry anyway you want in a church.

No one can help you find the answer you are looking for unless you tell us where you are from. Each state has unique laws concerning firearms.

Also, listen to Bikenut, he knows what he is talking about, but that doesn't mean he always gets it perfectly either.

wolf_fire said:

No one can help you find the answer you are looking for unless you tell us where you are from. Each state has unique laws concerning firearms.

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Since this is the Michigan forum lets assume he is from MI.

I'm not sure if a preschool is a school under Mi law:
"750.237a
(b) “School” means a public, private, denominational, or parochial school offering developmental kindergarten, kindergarten, or any grade from 1 through 12."

but if it is:
"28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon or portable device that uses electro-muscular disruption technology prohibited; ...
(a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a."
Michigan Legislature - Section 28.425o

Lets not start a open carry debate but it would be the only sure legal option in MI.

Golden Eagle said:

Since this is the Michigan forum lets assume he is from MI.

I'm not sure if a preschool is a school under Mi law:
"750.237a
(b) “School” means a public, private, denominational, or parochial school offering developmental kindergarten, kindergarten, or any grade from 1 through 12."

but if it is:
"28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon or portable device that uses electro-muscular disruption technology prohibited; ...
(a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a."
Michigan Legislature - Section 28.425o

Lets not start a open carry debate but it would be the only sure legal option in MI.

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I make it a practice not to assume anything, especially in these forums. I have associated with many posters ranging from the completely ignorant to the amazingly informed. Being that this OP is posting his first ever post here, I'm not going to assume anything about him, even whether he understands how to navigate through the forums well. It is also good form in these forums to at least update your profile and put your state of residency or let us know in the thread, therefore, people will know that is the state whose laws we are dealing with. I was providing this info as friendly advice. He could be living in one state and want to know the laws in another. I have seen that happen and there was no reference to where the poster was from or traveling to. I'm actually taken aback that you would need to reference my friendly advice to actually answer the OP. But maybe you "assumed" I was trying to be difficult when I wasn't. I could be wrong.

Being that his first post, this one, was on Sept 19th and that's when all the replies happened and you posted October 9th, and the original poster has yet to post anything else, its probably safe to assume that the info Bikenut gave and Tammy gave, most likely satiated his palate, but I could be wrong since I don't want to assume anything. :wink:

Yes, a preschool or daycare center is covered under MI law (the following quotes are taken from MSP legal update 86, http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf):

MCL 28.425o provides that a person with a validCPL shall not carry a concealed pistol in a pistol-free zone. First offense is a state civil infraction.The following is a list of the premises (excludingparking lots) included in the statute:

• School or school property, except a parent orlegal guardian who is dropping off or picking up achild and the pistol is kept in the vehicle
  
• Public or private day care center
  
• Sports arena or stadium
  
• A bar or tavern where sale and consumption of
• liquor by the glass is the primary source ofincome (does not apply to owner or employee ofthe business).
• Any property or facility owned or operated by achurch, synagogue, mosque, temple, or otherplace of worship, unless authorized by thepresiding official
• An entertainment facility that has a seatingcapacity of 2,500 or more
• A hospital
  
• A dormitory or classroom of a community college,
• college, or university
  
• A casino (R 432.1212, MCL 432.202)

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However, MI's open carry with a CPL potentially addresses both issues.

MCL 750.234d provides that it is a 90 daymisdemeanor to possess a firearm on thepremises of any of the following:

• A depository financial institution (e.g., bank or
  credit union)
• A church or other place of religious worship
• A court
• A theater
• A sports arena
• A day care center
• A hospital
• An establishment licensed under the Liquor
  Control Code
  
  The above section does not apply to any of the following:

• The owner or a person hired as security (if the
  firearm is possessed for the purpose of providing
  security)
  
• A peace officer
• A person with a valid concealed pistol license
  (CPL) issued by any state
• A person who possesses on one of the above listed premises with the permission of the owner or owner’s agent
  

Officers must be aware of the above exemptionfor valid CPL holders as many of the citizens who openly carry firearms possess valid CPLs.An individual with a valid CPL may carry a non-concealed firearm in the above listed premises.

A CPL holder is not required by law to carry apistol concealed. A CPL holder may carry apistol concealed or non-concealed.

A private property owner has the right to prohibitindividuals from carrying firearms on his or herproperty, whether concealed or otherwise, andregardless of whether the person is a CPLholder. If a person remains on the property afterbeing told to leave by the owner, the person maybe charged with trespassing (MCL 750.552).

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Since a church is private property, as is the preschool, they can enforce their own gun free policy and there is nothing you can do about it. However, if they don't, you can openly carry in both places. Since they are private property, if they DO generally enforce a gun free policy, you can still carry there if you can secure written permission.

A letter from the church's governing board may carry stronger authority than an email from the pastor.

My old church came out and said no weapons. My new Church is fine with it. And my new Church is HUGE. Room to practice - it is also Gods Church - outdoors. I can still find tons of opportunities to be of service to others and the Lord without some obnoxious twit giving me orders that have nothing to do with Gods will.

I say CARRY in Chuuuuch! That's where it can GO DOWN at cuz people wont expect it....

Sir Swiftus Funkellwerk said:

I say CARRY in Chuuuuch! That's where it can GO DOWN at cuz people wont expect it....

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So your a Michigan instructor and your blatantly suggesting to break state law?

Golden Eagle said:

So your a Michigan instructor and your blatantly suggesting to break state law?

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Only illegal if the carrier doesn't have permission from the presiding official:

MCL 28.425o provides that a person with a validCPL shall not carry a concealed pistol in a pistol-free zone. First offense is a state civil infraction.The following is a list of the premises (excludingparking lots) included in the statute...

• Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless authorized by the presiding official

Click to expand...

farsidefan1 said:

My old church came out and said no weapons. My new Church is fine with it. And my new Church is HUGE. Room to practice - it is also Gods Church - outdoors. I can still find tons of opportunities to be of service to others and the Lord without some obnoxious twit giving me orders that have nothing to do with Gods will.

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good answer

ezkl2230 said:

Only illegal if the carrier doesn't have permission from the presiding official:

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28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon or portable device that uses electro-muscular disruption technology prohibited;...
(b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.

Can't get permission to conceal carry on the premises listed in 28.425o.

good summary ezkl2230

I am doing the same.


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