The criteria for buying from a FFL is the same criteria to legally possess firearms. I draw your attention to the Gun Control Act of 1968 or 18 USC 922.That statement is absolutely incorrect. Please provide the cite to law to support it.
The criteria for buying from a FFL is the same criteria to legally possess firearms. I draw your attention to the Gun Control Act of 1968 or 18 USC 922.
You know, those yes/no questions on the 4473 and many State CCW applications. You do know what a BATFE 4473 is don't you?
It's pretty obvious to me that you never were a member of the Link Removed. Did you also take your CCW class from one of those rubber stampers that brought about HB204 in the Utah legislature? :sarcastic:
State of residence. The State in which
an individual resides. An individual resides
in a State if he or she is present in a State
with the intention of making a home in that
State. If an individual is on active duty as a
member of the Armed Forces, the individual's
State of residence is the State in
which his or her permanent duty station is
located.
Identification document. A document
containing the name, residence address,
date of birth, and photograph of the holder
and which was made or issued by or under
the authority of the United States
Government, a State, political subdivision
of a State, a foreign government, political
subdivision of a foreign government, an
international governmental or an international
quasi-governmental organization
which, when completed with information
concerning a particular individual, is of a
type intended or commonly accepted for
the purpose of identification of individuals.
This case falls under the multiple residency exemption. She can legally buy firearms in WA barring any State laws prohibiting it and in WY. Her military ID, WY DL and her spouse's orders would qualify her to purchase from a WA FFL. Military spouses have the same rights as their active duty spouse under GCA68 with respect to residency. Also WA issues non-resident CPLs providing she is not a prohibited person under State law which includes the GCA68.Well, let me present to you at least one instance where your statements are incorrect. A military spouse lives in Washington state with her husband who has permanent orders to Washington State. She is not required by Washington State, according to Washington Administrative Code, to obtain a Washington State Driver's license. Her "home state" is Wyoming and she has a Wyoming driver's license.
So, according to 27 CFR 478.11, she is not a resident of Wyoming, because she is not present in Wyoming with an intent to make a home there.
...
According to 27 CFR 478.11, she does not have appropriate identification to purchase a firearm from an FFL, as a Washington resident because she has a Wyoming driver's license.
...
So, she cannot claim Wyoming on the 4473 as state of residence, because she is not a resident of Wyoming. She cannot provide suitable ID as a Washington resident to support an answer of Washington as state of residency on the 4473. So, by CFR's she is prohibited from purchasing any firearm at an FFL. Yet, she is perfectly legal to obtain a Washington State CPL (and has) and is perfectly legal to purchase firearms in private sales because there are no ID requirements specified for private sales.
This case falls under the multiple residency exemption. She can legally buy firearms in WA barring any State laws prohibiting it and in WY. Her military ID, WY DL and her spouse's orders would qualify her to purchase from a WA FFL.
State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located.
Question 2. Further, in situations where the
transferee is an active duty military member
acquiring a firearm where his or her duty station is
located, but he or she has a driver’s license from
another State, you should list the transferee’s
military identification card and official orders
showing where his or her permanent duty station is
located in response to Question 18a.
You have to be able to legally purchase firearms in the US from a FFL before you can consider getting a CCW from any State in the US. Being able to import your firearms from your country is not enough, you have to be able to legally buy here from a FFL.
BATFE firearms FAQ B12 cites the CFR.Respectfully, it is quite obvious since you have not quoted one law that you are discussing things from opinion rather than fact.
That is used by the FFL to determine residency status, that's why she has the same rights as you to purchase from a FFL. However, WA has an additional State law pertaining to transfers to new residents.Military orders and military ID apply to the active duty service member ONLY and not to spouses. The Federal regulation referenced is, again, 27 CFR 478.11:
Notice, "member", not spouse or dependent.
ATF's guides to FFL's in the August 2004 FFL Newsletter states this:
Again, notice this only applies to the "member", not spouse or dependents.
Yes, you are correct that WA state issues CPL's to non-residents.
Yes you are correct that she could purchase LONG GUNS ONLY from a WA FFL, with a Wyoming driver's license, only IF she could truthfully state that Wyoming was her state of residence, which it is not, because she is not present in Wyoming for any part of the year with the intent of making Wyoming a home. She cannot purchase any firearm from a WA FFL claiming Washington as a state of residence and presenting a Wyoming Driver's License, regardless of her Dependent ID Card and MY orders, because she is NOT an active duty military member.
However, by definition, she is a Washington resident and may purchase both handguns and long guns from other WA state residents.
In regards to the above statement, Federal law requires residency in a state for 90 consecutive days for an alien to be considered legally a resident of that state for the purpose of purchasing firearms from an FFL. However, states that issue CCWs to non state residents, and to persons only legally in the United States but not citizens, would therefore issue a CCW to a legal alien who would be prohibited from purchasing a firearm from an FFL.
The only thing keeping me from sending you a bill for this is that I'm not a member of any State bar. I do know from my friends in the shark...uh legal, profession that you'd be buying me at least a stripped AR-15 lower about now for this debate. I could use another Jolly Roger stripped lower from Spike's Tactical for another AR-15 build. :sarcastic:
No it isn't. I have spent more time addressing this issue than doing my federal tax return. You have yet to prove what I have stated is wrong. I have refuted every point you have made with the appropriate references.That and the fact that most of what you happen to be saying is incorrect, but it isn't worth arguing about any longer here.
What you seem to forget is that FFLs do have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason just like any other private business. There's more than enough business for FFLs now given the current political climate. In fact, the firearms industry is one of the few sectors that is making a profit now. Quite a few FFLs do not fully understand what they can and cannot do even if you point out the relevant sections of the BATFE website FAQs, CFRs and USCs because they simply do not wish to potentially risk their license especially given the current Presidential Administration.An FFL will not sell to a military spouse with their dependent ID card and their spouses orders, so it doesn't matter what is written here.
Thanks for providing a data point proving my point. Any commentary to this NavyLT? We have an employee of a FFL that confirms they sell to military spouses providing acceptable documentation of residency is provided.I work part time at a gun shop. The only time we refuse a sale to a military spouse is when they either don't pass the background check, or they don't provide a copy of their spouse's PCS orders, a document showing residence (lease or utility bill works), and a photo ID.
Well, let me present to you at least one instance where your statements are incorrect. A military spouse lives in Washington state with her husband who has permanent orders to Washington State. She is not required by Washington State, according to Washington Administrative Code, to obtain a Washington State Driver's license. Her "home state" is Wyoming and she has a Wyoming driver's license.
So, according to 27 CFR 478.11, she is not a resident of Wyoming, because she is not present in Wyoming with an intent to make a home there.
According to 27 CFR 478.11, she does not have appropriate identification to purchase a firearm from an FFL, as a Washington resident because she has a Wyoming driver's license.
So, she cannot claim Wyoming on the 4473 as state of residence, because she is not a resident of Wyoming. She cannot provide suitable ID as a Washington resident to support an answer of Washington as state of residency on the 4473. So, by CFR's she is prohibited from purchasing any firearm at an FFL. Yet, she is perfectly legal to obtain a Washington State CPL (and has) and is perfectly legal to purchase firearms in private sales because there are no ID requirements specified for private sales.
Thanks for providing a data point proving my point. Any commentary to this NavyLT? We have an employee of a FFL that confirms they sell to military spouses providing acceptable documentation of residency is provided.
Lt.,
It is legal for active duty to obtain a handgun from an FFL using the two items you stated. It states that on the back of the 4473. It does not and will not apply to the spouse. The spouse would have to get an state ID card to show residency.
Nick...
Special Agent/Senior Operations Officer
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosive Seattle Field Division
915 Second Ave. Suite 790
Seattle, WA 98174
-----Original Message-----
From: H..., John M LT FRCNW
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 10:57
To: 'S...., Nicholas'
Subject: FFL sale of handgun to military spouses
Nick,
Thank you for all the help in the past, I appreciate you taking the time to answer my emails and questions!
It is legal for an FFL to sell handguns to an active duty military member based upon their Active Duty Armed Forces ID and permanent orders to a state to verify residency. Does the same apply to military spouses and dependents? Can a spouse/dependent show their dependent ID card and their spouse's orders to verify state of residency an FFL to purchase a handgun?
Thank you again!
Very Respectfully,
LT John H......
Oak Harbor, WA
*******
NOTICE: This electronic transmission is confidential and intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and destroy this message in its entirety (including all attachments).
BATFE does not respond to formal inquiries via e-mail for legal reasons. All responses to formal inquiries they respond back to via US Mail with the supporting legal cites on BATFE letterhead. Those are typically signed off on by much higher brass of BATFE as that can cost them a trial by rendering a legal opinion via e-mail. If you have a buddy in BATFE rendering official opinions which may be against agency policy perhaps we all need to make a phone call or e-mail to BATFE central office and lodge a complaint?I do not have any commentary on this. BATFE does, however:
What we need is a US Concealed Carry Permit. Sorry guys. Requirements? Not a whacko. Not a criminal. Over 21. Citizen or legal resident. That's it.
BATFE firearms FAQ B12 cites the CFR.
That is used by the FFL to determine residency status, that's why she has the same rights as you to purchase from a FFL. However, WA has an additional State law pertaining to transfers to new residents.
I draw your attention to the relevant sections of Link Removed.
The military ID, copy of her spouse's orders and WY DL should suffice as proof for the FFL that she is indeed residing in WA State during the term of her spouse being stationed in WA. To qualify for the multiple State of residency exemption you must provide documentation to the FFL that you do indeed reside in the State you're in if your DL or ID is not from the State where the transfer is taking place providing there is no State law prohibiting transfers to out of State residents. This is the same documentation you'd provide to the FFL if you were buying the firearm yourself. Example 2 under 27 CFR 478.11 is the relevant example in your case. Yes, the examples are codified within the CFR. With respect to purchasing firearms from a FFL, you and your spouse is both a residents of WA and WY.
Alien. Any person not a citizen or national of the United States.
...
State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. An alien who is legally in the United States shall be considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in the State and has resided in the State for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm. The following are examples that illustrate this definition:
Example 1. A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.
Example 2. A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.
The federal 90 day period applies to aliens; persons who are not US citizens or nationals. It does not apply to US citizens. I have included the federal statutory definition of alien under Link Removed.
What you're probably confused about is RCW 9.41.090 which is the waiting period for new and non-residents of WA State. That's different from federal law. That's what's probably keeping you and your spouse from buying handguns in WA State, not federal law. There is no active duty military exemption for RCW 9.41.090.
The only thing keeping me from sending you a bill for this is that I'm not a member of any State bar. I do know from my friends in the shark...uh legal, profession that you'd be buying me at least a stripped AR-15 lower about now for this debate. I could use another Jolly Roger stripped lower from Spike's Tactical for another AR-15 build. :sarcastic:
Many of them do ask for a copy of your State issued DL or ID; Nevada and Utah do.OK. So here's a good question. I am an American citizen presently owning a home in Canada. I do not own a home stateside at present. However, being pretty much retired we spend much time travelling in the states, hauling a house trailer and staying with friends and relatives.
QUESTION: During the time that I am in Toronto I am obviously a resident of Toronto. During the time that I am staying with a friend or relative or hunkering down in a trailer park for a few weeks in, say, New York State, am I a resident of NYS for the purposes of applying for a non-resident permit from a state that issues non-resident permits and asks "are you legally residing in the United States?" or "Are you presently residing in the United States"?
Nope, it's one of the criteria I have listed below. The defacto criteria being the jurisdiction that issued your State DL or ID.To answer my own question; I would think that travelling about so much, wherever I happen to park my trailer, whatever relative I am staying with, whatever house I have rented for a month or two.... THAT is my current residence and I am at that particular time a resident of the United States, no?
You can't. You can forget CCW in CO, MI and SC. You can CCW in FL and NH if you get their respective CCW. Also keep in mind that the most likely encounter with a LEO is during a traffic stop. I'm assuming you have a Canadian DL which would immediately put you in the classification as being a non-resident for any CCW you may hold....
There are a few states, however, that do not recognize non-resident permits from other states and I would like to be able to carry in those states... comments?
Your State of residency for all practical purposes falls under one or more of the following;PS - There are a few states that WILL issue to non-citizens. You are going to have to do some digging as I forget which states those are and the laws may have changed.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?