I hope I'm not violating the law!

2beararms said:

I can't speak for Indiana but "Can they legally do that"? seems to be the entire test in the case of the new Florida law. That is exactly the law the legislature passed, that a business MAY NOT stop an employee with a permit from keeping his firearm locked in his car on company property.

Now that has resulted in a court ruling upholding the law for now so at the moment a business may not keep an employee with a permit from having a gun locked in his car. HOWEVER, the court says since the law specifies an employee, that it therein means that they MAY keep non-employees (spelled US) from having guns in their cars. Of course that was never the intent and hopefully will be corrected quickly.

The battle is between property rights of the business and the individual rights of the permit holder. It appears so far that even though the legislature has spoken to give the upper position to the individual the courts are trying to doubletalk their way back to the business.

How will it all turn out??


If Indiana does not have a specific law addressing the issue, then property rights may well be paramount and the answer may be YES.

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The Indiana Senate has a bill before right now that, if passed, will resolve this issue in our favor.

Firearms in locked vehicles. Prohibits a person from adopting or enforcing a policy or rule that prohibits or has the effect of prohibiting an individual from legally possessing a firearm that is locked in the individual's vehicle while the vehicle is in or on the person's property. Excepts possession of a firearm: (1) on school property or a school bus; (2) on certain child care and shelter facility property; (3) on penal facility property; and (4) in violation of federal law. Provides that a person who, in compliance with the prohibition, does not adopt or enforce such a policy or rule is not liable for resulting injury or damage. Authorizes a civil action for damages, costs, attorney's fees, and injunctive relief to remedy a violation.

twincam said:

The Indiana Senate has a bill before right now that, if passed, will resolve this issue in our favor.

Firearms in locked vehicles. Prohibits a person from adopting or enforcing a policy or rule that prohibits or has the effect of prohibiting an individual from legally possessing a firearm that is locked in the individual's vehicle while the vehicle is in or on the person's property. Excepts possession of a firearm: (1) on school property or a school bus; (2) on certain child care and shelter facility property; (3) on penal facility property; and (4) in violation of federal law. Provides that a person who, in compliance with the prohibition, does not adopt or enforce such a policy or rule is not liable for resulting injury or damage. Authorizes a civil action for damages, costs, attorney's fees, and injunctive relief to remedy a violation.

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That's the way it should have been all along.

It's pretty simple. When you get the license the paper it's attached to states that you are supposed to have it with you at all times when you are carrying. The law also says you do not need a LTC to carry on your property. So it comes down to what is considered your property. My assumption is that even though the renters maintain the common areas, they are for everyone in the complex that pays rent, and therefore technically an extension of every residents property. Idk though. Probably best to just take your wallet.

You may just want to slip your id and permit in your shirt pocket and leave the wallett at home. I started carrying mine that way all the time so if I ever have to get to them I can reach them without getting close to my holstered gun. Here in NC the first thing I have to do is tell the cop I am carrying and I don't want to make them nervous for no reason.

You may know you live there but the LEO might not. WWYD?

I kinda skimmed the thread, and didn't see a rebuttal to the answer given with the law above. Yes, the law used to say that you must have it on your person.

However, in the same chapter, there's this:

IC 35-47-2-24
Indictment or information; defendant's burden to prove exemption or license; arrest, effect of production of valid license, or establishment of exemption
Sec. 24. (a) In an information or indictment brought for the enforcement of any provision of this chapter, it is not necessary to negate any exemption specified under this chapter, or to allege the absence of a license required under this chapter. The burden of proof is on the defendant to prove that he is exempt under section 2 of this chapter, or that he has a license as required under this chapter.
(b) Whenever a person who has been arrested or charged with a violation of section 1 of this chapter presents a valid license to the prosecuting attorney or establishes that he is exempt under section 2 of this chapter, any prosecution for a violation of section 1 of this chapter shall be dismissed immediately, and all records of an arrest or proceedings following arrest shall be destroyed immediately.

Key being that yes, you should carry it on you. However, if you're caught without it, you only have to produce it and any arrest or prosecution goes bye-bye permanently. Going around your apt. building without it, a LEO would have a really hard time that you were off "your property" (where you're not required to have one) as common areas are technically still "your property". Even taking out the garbage and being in the parking lot would be considered "your property" as you rent and have a vested interest in it.

Don't over think it. You're licensed, you're good to go.

IANAL, TINLA. It's just my $0.02 based on the law I've quoted.


Edit: As of July 1, 2011, the law no longer reads that you must be in possession of your LTCH when you are carrying your firearm. The law states that you must be properly licensed to carry and says nothing of "on your person." The part of the IC I quoted above about the presentation of a valid LTCH and the destruction of any and all record of arrest thereafter still applies.

It's still a good idea to carry your LTCH with you.

Common area

In oregon the statutes has a definition of public places and it includes hallways and common area of hotels and apartment buildings, I would check for a legal definition in your laws first. In oregon what you are doing would in fact be a criminal offence and you could lose your permit and go to jail, as the law states you must have the permit on your person when carrying concealed or it is proof you do not have one.

tattedupboy said:

Something happened today that makes me wonder if I've been breaking the law all this time. In the apartment building in which I live, as I was going down to check my mail, as I always do when checking the mail or going down to the laundry room, I had my Glock 22 in an IWB holster under an untucked shirt. However, my wallet, which contains my carry permit, remained in my apartment. I've never given too much thought to it until today when a police officer was on the elevator with me. He apparently had just left someone else's apartment, so I had nothing to worry about, but it got me to thinking. Should I begin taking my wallet with me any time I go check the mail or do my laundry? Can I be charged with carrying without a permit for doing this? My instinct would tell me no, since I the building is my place of residence and am not leaving it while doing these things. However, I'm wondering if this is the correct line of thinking. I suppose that if I have to, it won't kill me to take my wallet with me, but why should I have to if I don't? Anyway, does my RKBA without having my permit on my person apply to the entire apartment complex, the entire building, or only my apartment?

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You are now a felon. Please invoke the help of a friend (a non-felon friend) to bag up all your weapons and take them to the nearest police station for proper redistribution to the LEO's.

Wouldn't it be easier to just keep your wallet in your pocket until you're home for the night?

Canis-Lupus:29136 said:

In WA state where your concealed pistol goes, so MUST your permit outside of your home, to stay legal if U have 2 use that weapon. One day some smart person may issue a tiny bar-code chip/strip that IS your CC permit and attaches to a part of the pistol where it doesn't get in the way of easy use and doesn't wear or fall off. Got 5 guns, no probs apply for 5 CCW strips. Dogs got it easy, their tag goes here they do, it would B handy if the same applied to your carry weapons.

Canis-Lupus

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Wow. Please do the world a favor: Don't ever vote.

To the OP, great discussion, and lots of good info. But for those who don't have the time or inclination to research and test legal boundaries, just carry your ID and CCW. Put it on like your glasses or your watch every morning. My pistol goes on in the morning with my wallet, knife, flashlight and spare mags. They are never apart. That way I am always able to demonstrate I am carrying legally and responsibly.

tattedupboy:29130 said:

Something happened today that makes me wonder if I've been breaking the law all this time. In the apartment building in which I live, as I was going down to check my mail, as I always do when checking the mail or going down to the laundry room, I had my Glock 22 in an IWB holster under an untucked shirt. However, my wallet, which contains my carry permit, remained in my apartment. I've never given too much thought to it until today when a police officer was on the elevator with me. He apparently had just left someone else's apartment, so I had nothing to worry about, but it got me to thinking. Should I begin taking my wallet with me any time I go check the mail or do my laundry? Can I be charged with carrying without a permit for doing this? My instinct would tell me no, since I the building is my place of residence and am not leaving it while doing these things. However, I'm wondering if this is the correct line of thinking. I suppose that if I have to, it won't kill me to take my wallet with me, but why should I have to if I don't? Anyway, does my RKBA without having my permit on my person apply to the entire apartment complex, the entire building, or only my apartment?

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better to be safe than sorry. Carry it whenever you have your weapon. It will save you a lot of time and hassle.

Firstly, you are supposed to know the laws under which you are carrying. If there is a question in your mind, that means you don't know and it behooves you to actually go and read the pertinent code. That would include the definition of common area vs public vs private property. Secondly, whether or not you can believe that you would be cited, arrested, etc., is immaterial. Either you are breaking the law or you are not. Why would you want to depend on someones goodwill to keep you out of trouble? A cop may indeed give you a pass, but why depend on luck when it is so easy to do it right?

I don't mean to sound rude but the licence doesn't weigh anything, its simple enough to carry in your pocket or w.e. granted my state (ny) requires us to have it on whenever we Carry, but even if it didn't, I would. Saves a hassle and unneeded headache. Yes Ik some ppl will have the whole "my rights and liberty" argument, but why turn a small easy question into a complex argument when its not needed. Remember us 2nd Amendment peeps are held to a higher standard, whether you like it or not.
Just my $0.02

Concerning the post about locking the weapon in your car while on business property. I am a federal employee and my weapon goes where I go. I do have a LTC but when at work of course I keep mine locked in my car on federal property, never had a problem. We did one employee who forgot to leave theirs in the car. When he entered the building the metal detectors lit up, all he was asked to do was take to the car once they verified he had a LTC.

Just FYI

twincam said:

Reading these posts brings up another question. Has anyone run into their place of work banning any weapon on the premises even if it is locked in your vehicle and you have a permit to carry? Can they legally do that?

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By Link Removed the answer is no as far as legally. However, the State of Indiana does ban weapons at the Department of Correction employee parking lot, even though it isn't inside the institution.

(d) This section may be not construed:
(1) to prohibit a person who owns, leases, rents, or otherwise legally controls private property from regulating or prohibiting the possession of firearms on the private property;
(2) to allow a person to adopt or enforce an ordinance, resolution, policy, or rule that:
(A) prohibits; or
(B) has the effect of prohibiting;
an employee of the person from possessing a firearm or ammunition that is locked in the trunk of the employee's vehicle, kept in the glove compartment of the employee's locked vehicle, or stored out of plain sight in the employee's locked vehicle, unless the person's adoption or enforcement of the ordinance, resolution, policy, or rule is allowed under IC 34-28-7-2(b); or
(3) to allow a person to adopt or enforce a law, statute, ordinance, resolution, policy, or rule that allows a person to possess or transport a firearm or ammunition if the person is prohibited from possessing or transporting the firearm or ammunition by state or federal law.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.326-1987, SEC.1; P.L.195-2003, SEC.6; P.L.98-2004, SEC.155; P.L.118-2007, SEC.35; P.L.164-2011, SEC.1; P.L.6-2012, SEC.231.

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just open carry.

twincam said:

Reading these posts brings up another question. Has anyone run into their place of work banning any weapon on the premises even if it is locked in your vehicle and you have a permit to carry? Can they legally do that?

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Please do not confuse having a weapon in your vehicle with a permit to carry being lawful and your employer having a no guns on the premises as a condition of your continued employment.

If it isn't against the law to have your weapon in your vehicle but your employer has a "no guns on the premises" policy you might not be arrested if you get caught because you aren't breaking the law but you likely would have your employment terminated (be fired).

And yes the employer has the private property right to have such a policy... and yes you could be fired for violating it because, by working there, you have agreed to abide by any and all rules/policies your employer has as a condition for continued employment.

Hard to believe this thread is still alive five years to the day after I created it!

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I'm not an attorney either. But, an apartment complex is "private" property. So, it would seem to me a look at your contract may be in order. (If the property owners don't have a problem with it, I don't think LE would.)

Again, I'm not an attorney, But, depending of the law in your area, an LEO may not have any more right to hassle you in the laundry room & mailbox in the apartment complex than he would at a single family dwelling. I would think if your mailbox & laundry room are part of the building you live in you shouldn't have any problems. JMHO

Again, the first thing I would check is the rental agreement. I've been involved in rental units off & on since the 70's. (As a manager & investor) Every rental agreement I've read in an apartment complex as a clause that will stipulate such permissions


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tattedupboy said:

I'm familiar with what the law says; however, I'm wondering if the law would define the entire complex and/or building as my dwelling, or only my apartment. I could be wrong, but if I'm caught down in the laundry room or at the mailbox without my permit, I would hope that I would not get charged. At the same time, if they're going to be that strict about the law's interpretation, I suppose it wouldn't kill me to bring it with me. Arrrrgh!

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Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possessionn

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The highlighted section of the statute is the key to your question. The permit being in your possession is the key. Not in your wallet on your dresser in your apartment.

We have the same conditions here in Florida. Although it would seem the police do have some latitude in the matter. (no pocket for my wallet in my night pants)but that's another story.