Oregon Vet
Sorry I took so long to get this out, have been busy.
This Thread began with AN OPEN LETTER TO PRESIDENT OBAMA.
In it I counted 21 “you scare me(s)”; none of them mentioned the 2nd Amendment or guns.
My stated reason in addressing the 21 scare mes' was that this type of character assassination was reprehensible to me, and many other Americans.
Someday there will be another Republican President, and I wouldn't want this done to him either.
Any political party or individual who spouts that sort of cheap slander is going to lose us as supporters.
I am in complete support of anyone who has factual, well documented information, be it pro or con.
If it involves criminal activity, then by all means, let's get it to the proper authorities (FBI. Etc.).
But, please, no email saying Obama is the Anti-Christ, and devours babies for breakfast.
These days I do get a lot of information from the Internet.
That was why I included the YouTube video of John McCain correcting two of his supporters about Obama.
“No, he is not an Arab. No. you don't have to fear a Obama Presidency.”. I saw it, I heard it.
Do the very specific words of a true American Hero qualify as a reliable source for me to make a determination as to Obama's Scare Factor?
I think so.
As far as TV goes, when I want a little light entertainment I first go to MSNBC and listen to Keith Oberman rant and rave about the Conservatives; when that gets tiresome, I change the channel to Fox and listen to Sean rant and rave about the Liberals, and when it's not funny anymore, I go to C-Span for real information. Problem is, it's kinda boring after listening to those two “shows”.
When it comes to questions regarding Obama the man, I find little information of substance to support the negative stuff like he's a: Muslim, Arab, friend and supporter of terrorists, and on and on...
Now, when it comes to 2nd Amendment and gun issues, it becomes another story.
This is an issue near and dear to my heart, so I do want to be real careful, and very, very well informed.
I do admit I had not been avidly following this until recently, having moved to Arizona (God Bless Arizona) from NY where it is actually quite easy to obtain a Concealed Carry Permit - all you need is a rap sheet with at least one felony.
“I clicked on one of those links in one of your posts.”
If you mean this one: FORA.tv - Gun Control Debate please go back and watch the whole thing, because it directly addresses your comment “...the Brady...website and looked at some of the stuff they post as FACT...exactly 180 degrees WRONG info.”
The gentleman speaking for us is David Kopel, “Gun Control and Gun Rights: A Reader and Guide”. "Restoring the Right to Bear Arms," Chapter 31 of the Cato Handbook for Policymakers, 7th edition. A benefactor member of the National Rifle Association.
In this debate, Mr. Kopel decimates his opponents Anti-Gun stance.
His is an invaluable advocate for us: intelligent, articulate and well respected.
You are right “...do a bunch switch from one side to the other? Not going to happen.”
Does that mean I should just give up on trying to get friends and neighbors to our side?
I say no, don't give up.
Now, more than ever, we need all the support we can get. Maybe, not a bunch, but I'll take one at time.
I live in a Retirement Community with a lot of retired Military – no problem there; retired LEO – no problem there; some retired Teachers – don't even try!.
During the many social gatherings we have here, I gently engage new faces in a conversation relating
to guns. It doesn't take long to find out where they stand. If they are one of us, I move on to another person; if they are hopelessly Anti, I move on.
When I find someone whom I think is open to debate, I gently explain the difference between an Assault Style Rifle and an Assault Rifle, I refer them to the Kopel debate; I invite them and their spouse to accompany me, my wife and our neighbors out to the desert for some shooting fun.
“See Penny, over there – that's right, Ralph's wife – she's the best shot! A real Annie Oakley!”
We load up with an assortment of hand guns, plenty of ammo (not so much now days), stop for breakfast, and then have hours of fun.
The next time out, we bring the AR and some Binladen targets.
Now, that's real fun!!!
I invited a bunch of people to go out to the Ben Avery shooting Facility for their annual Outdoor Expo where over 35,000 attended. Got to try out guns at S&W, loved the Gunsite; Glock, not my cup of tea;
and a few Rugers. For a couple of bucks you got to shoot an old Gatling Gun. Dillion had a SUV with a modern day Gatling – I don't have the words too describe the firepower.
I invited a bunch of people to come along to the NRA Convention in Phoenix. On a Sunday morning the place was packed, with more folks pouring in when we finally left.
I have a friend (a Democrat and Obama supporter) who, with my guidance has recently purchased, not one, but two guns (Ruger LCP and Bretta Neos). He has seen the light, and has scheduled his CCW class. He is proof that that we can put one more on the path to becoming one of us.
I got the information from the NRA site I needed to contact my elected officials and have done so on any issues related to 2nd Amendment.
Those are some of the positive things I am doing; I plan to do more – becoming better informed on political issues related to the 2nd Amendment is one of them, that's one of the reasons why I'm here at USA Carry.
Again, Oregon Vet, you are right “Does the TV or press put that out "there" for everyone to see? NO WAY”
But wrong, when you say “...gun people, like you, who believe what they read in the paper or see on TV.” I can only speak for myself, not other “...gun people”. On my job I witnessed incidents, that were grossly distorted accounts in the newspapers the next day.
Back in '71 there was one notable experience involving the then young Geraldo and a camera crew; he didn't give up until he got an inmate to say what he wanted, which was far from the truth; that's what made the evening news on TV.
The Media, with a few exceptions – Beck and Dobbs - does not not give us much of a voice.
If we could have a major media outlet putting out information like that found at: Civilian Gun Self-Defense Blog ,I am sure we would have a lot more people coming around. They would see that guns do save lives – everyday.
Since I am pretty new to this Forum and have only been posting to Off-Topic, I decided to check out the 2nd Amendment and Politics section after reading ronwill's post #18; I liked his calm, reasoned and rational post. This I can deal with.
I was pretty upset after seeing the videos showing how the UK has taken away firearms, because it can happen here as well.
Obama may be a great guy to have a beer with, but if he really does want to take my guns, we have a problem. In conclusion, I agree with ronwill, I am now “deeply worried.”
Sorry I took so long to get this out, have been busy.
This Thread began with AN OPEN LETTER TO PRESIDENT OBAMA.
In it I counted 21 “you scare me(s)”; none of them mentioned the 2nd Amendment or guns.
My stated reason in addressing the 21 scare mes' was that this type of character assassination was reprehensible to me, and many other Americans.
Someday there will be another Republican President, and I wouldn't want this done to him either.
Any political party or individual who spouts that sort of cheap slander is going to lose us as supporters.
I am in complete support of anyone who has factual, well documented information, be it pro or con.
If it involves criminal activity, then by all means, let's get it to the proper authorities (FBI. Etc.).
But, please, no email saying Obama is the Anti-Christ, and devours babies for breakfast.
These days I do get a lot of information from the Internet.
That was why I included the YouTube video of John McCain correcting two of his supporters about Obama.
“No, he is not an Arab. No. you don't have to fear a Obama Presidency.”. I saw it, I heard it.
Do the very specific words of a true American Hero qualify as a reliable source for me to make a determination as to Obama's Scare Factor?
I think so.
As far as TV goes, when I want a little light entertainment I first go to MSNBC and listen to Keith Oberman rant and rave about the Conservatives; when that gets tiresome, I change the channel to Fox and listen to Sean rant and rave about the Liberals, and when it's not funny anymore, I go to C-Span for real information. Problem is, it's kinda boring after listening to those two “shows”.
When it comes to questions regarding Obama the man, I find little information of substance to support the negative stuff like he's a: Muslim, Arab, friend and supporter of terrorists, and on and on...
Now, when it comes to 2nd Amendment and gun issues, it becomes another story.
This is an issue near and dear to my heart, so I do want to be real careful, and very, very well informed.
I do admit I had not been avidly following this until recently, having moved to Arizona (God Bless Arizona) from NY where it is actually quite easy to obtain a Concealed Carry Permit - all you need is a rap sheet with at least one felony.
“I clicked on one of those links in one of your posts.”
If you mean this one: FORA.tv - Gun Control Debate please go back and watch the whole thing, because it directly addresses your comment “...the Brady...website and looked at some of the stuff they post as FACT...exactly 180 degrees WRONG info.”
The gentleman speaking for us is David Kopel, “Gun Control and Gun Rights: A Reader and Guide”. "Restoring the Right to Bear Arms," Chapter 31 of the Cato Handbook for Policymakers, 7th edition. A benefactor member of the National Rifle Association.
In this debate, Mr. Kopel decimates his opponents Anti-Gun stance.
His is an invaluable advocate for us: intelligent, articulate and well respected.
You are right “...do a bunch switch from one side to the other? Not going to happen.”
Does that mean I should just give up on trying to get friends and neighbors to our side?
I say no, don't give up.
Now, more than ever, we need all the support we can get. Maybe, not a bunch, but I'll take one at time.
I live in a Retirement Community with a lot of retired Military – no problem there; retired LEO – no problem there; some retired Teachers – don't even try!.
During the many social gatherings we have here, I gently engage new faces in a conversation relating
to guns. It doesn't take long to find out where they stand. If they are one of us, I move on to another person; if they are hopelessly Anti, I move on.
When I find someone whom I think is open to debate, I gently explain the difference between an Assault Style Rifle and an Assault Rifle, I refer them to the Kopel debate; I invite them and their spouse to accompany me, my wife and our neighbors out to the desert for some shooting fun.
“See Penny, over there – that's right, Ralph's wife – she's the best shot! A real Annie Oakley!”
We load up with an assortment of hand guns, plenty of ammo (not so much now days), stop for breakfast, and then have hours of fun.
The next time out, we bring the AR and some Binladen targets.
Now, that's real fun!!!
I invited a bunch of people to go out to the Ben Avery shooting Facility for their annual Outdoor Expo where over 35,000 attended. Got to try out guns at S&W, loved the Gunsite; Glock, not my cup of tea;
and a few Rugers. For a couple of bucks you got to shoot an old Gatling Gun. Dillion had a SUV with a modern day Gatling – I don't have the words too describe the firepower.
I invited a bunch of people to come along to the NRA Convention in Phoenix. On a Sunday morning the place was packed, with more folks pouring in when we finally left.
I have a friend (a Democrat and Obama supporter) who, with my guidance has recently purchased, not one, but two guns (Ruger LCP and Bretta Neos). He has seen the light, and has scheduled his CCW class. He is proof that that we can put one more on the path to becoming one of us.
I got the information from the NRA site I needed to contact my elected officials and have done so on any issues related to 2nd Amendment.
Those are some of the positive things I am doing; I plan to do more – becoming better informed on political issues related to the 2nd Amendment is one of them, that's one of the reasons why I'm here at USA Carry.
Again, Oregon Vet, you are right “Does the TV or press put that out "there" for everyone to see? NO WAY”
But wrong, when you say “...gun people, like you, who believe what they read in the paper or see on TV.” I can only speak for myself, not other “...gun people”. On my job I witnessed incidents, that were grossly distorted accounts in the newspapers the next day.
Back in '71 there was one notable experience involving the then young Geraldo and a camera crew; he didn't give up until he got an inmate to say what he wanted, which was far from the truth; that's what made the evening news on TV.
The Media, with a few exceptions – Beck and Dobbs - does not not give us much of a voice.
If we could have a major media outlet putting out information like that found at: Civilian Gun Self-Defense Blog ,I am sure we would have a lot more people coming around. They would see that guns do save lives – everyday.
Since I am pretty new to this Forum and have only been posting to Off-Topic, I decided to check out the 2nd Amendment and Politics section after reading ronwill's post #18; I liked his calm, reasoned and rational post. This I can deal with.
I was pretty upset after seeing the videos showing how the UK has taken away firearms, because it can happen here as well.
Obama may be a great guy to have a beer with, but if he really does want to take my guns, we have a problem. In conclusion, I agree with ronwill, I am now “deeply worried.”
