You have to read this.


In cases like these, both parties can be at fault: the carrier for possibly being too defensive and the LEO for being too aggressive. I've known a fair share of power-abusing cops, but I'm sure they are just trying to protect themselves. Just because they are LEOs doesn't mean they're not ignorant, unfortunately.
 

Like I said in the thread of the girl getting beaten in a cell. Cops are pretty much organized street gangs with paychecks. They steal, rape, and sometimes get away with murder as we have seen over and over again on the news. I might be able to see their point in SOME instances, like the kid in NH a few years ago who was harassed by a town cop for so long he finally shot him to death. You can see the arrogance in this cops demeanor as he pepper sprays the kid in this video just before the kid guns him down. He just has that "I'm the law when will you learn" attitude. Well, he did have.

Cop fatally shot and then has dying body driven over (By skiing star Bode Miller's cousin) - AOL Video


It's a long complicated story leading up to this day, but if the kid had lived he might have gotten off with a self defense plea. Who knows.
 
I use to work for a private company that taught marksmanship to various law enforcement agencys and military security units.
I can tell you that half the cops i trained could not shoot worth a shit!

I can tell you most of the military security units were in better physical shape.

I still cannot get use to calling a cop a non-civillian. to me cops are civillians.
 
Trying to stay on topic.

I'm a retired police sergeant from a big city, and also a retired military policemen (active duty and guard).

I was a CCW holder prior to appointment as a police officer and also after retirement.

As a police officer I conducted over a thousand car stops per year (no exaggeration).

I expected that EVERYONE I came into contact with was armed with some type of weapon. When I would pull over a person that would voluntarily admit that they had a CCW, I would just say "no problem, thanks" or "ok".

Where I had worked, I never heard any police officer acting like what was descibed in those posts.

As a POLICE OFFICER when you are on-duty in civlian clothes, or off-duty, you are told that if you are involved in any incident, the UNIFORMED officers are in charge and you WILL comply with their instructions. I would suggest the same for anyone else.

Cops are like anyone else in your work place, you have smart ones, funny ones, quiet ones, etc., then you have the axxholes. Expect that someday you'll run into the axxhole. I have.

I have had the chance to travel to many different parts of the U.S. and I know in certain parts especially small rural areas, that there is dissention between neighboring departments, and the police in these areas treat other police they encounter in a very unfriendly manner.

My advice if stopped by the polce, would be to pull over in a safe area so the cop won't get hit by a passing car (even if that means using the highway exit if there is no shoulder), roll all your windows down, turn on your dome light at night, keep your hands on the top of the steering wheel, say "Hi officer" and then wait for him/her to talk. Do not argue with him/her. Do not mention your CCW unless specifically asked.

If you were speeding or doing something wrong ADMIT IT (with genuine remorse). :yes4:The handful of people that admitted what they had actually done (and I don't mean saying "well I thought I was only going 10mph over the limit" when in reality you were doing 24mph over) I let off with a warning. Why, because when the officer tells you he saw you do something and you tell him you didn't, you are calling him a liar. How does it make you feel when your kids do that to you?

I would recommend the admittance of guilt only for non-criminal (ie., traffic violations) incidents.

If you have any problems with an officer be kind to him/her, remember as much info as possible and then go to the police station and make a report, or write a letter to the chief.

If you are having a severe problem with an officer comply with his/her instructions and politely ask for their supervisor to respond. Call 911 if neccessary. Cooperate and let your lawyer handle any civil rights violations later.

Just remember never to lose your cool, because it is much harder to de-escalate a situation. :nono:

Be safe. :wink:
 
Last edited:
I don't have much of a problem with them wanting to secure the firearm, I get it. What I do have a problem with is their disdain for lawful CCW holders, or at least the arrogant tone of their responce to the poor dude's concerns. Some of the ones who say "sure you have the right to ..." (in an arrogant and sarchastic tone) are the same ones who say "I'm gonna take your gun, deal with it".

If I am pulled over and the cop wants to secure my gun, sure I'll deal with it. I'll be compleatly courteous and compliant during the stop because, among other things, I got places to be and don't have spare time to dick around on the side of the road (probably why I got pulled over in the first place.) However, I expect the same amount of courtesy from the officer, weather I am armed or not.

Maybe these LEOs are courteous during their encounters with legal CCW holders, but their posts surely did not give me that impression. I'll acknowledge that they may not represent the majority of LEOs. But there were certainly more arrogant ones than there were reasonable ones on the forum.
 
Probably...

Trying to stay on topic.

I'm a retired police sergeant from a big city, and also a retired military policemen (active duty and guard).

I was a CCW holder prior to appointment as a police officer and also after retirement.

As a police officer I conducted over a thousand car stops per year (no exaggeration).

I expected that EVERYONE I came into contact with was armed with some type of weapon. When I would pull over a person that would voluntarily admit that they had a CCW, I would just say "no problem, thanks" or "ok".

Where I had worked, I never heard any police officer acting like what was descibed in those posts.

As a POLICE OFFICER when you are on-duty in civlian clothes, or off-duty, you are told that if you are involved in any incident, the UNIFORMED officers are in charge and you WILL comply with their instructions. I would suggest the same for anyone else.

Cops are like anyone else in your work place, you have smart ones, funny ones, quiet ones, etc., then you have the axxholes. Expect that someday you'll run into the axxhole. I have.

I have had the chance to travel to many different parts of the U.S. and I know in certain parts especially small rural areas, that there is dissention between neighboring departments, and the police in these areas treat other police they encounter in a very unfriendly manner.

My advice if stopped by the polce, would be to pull over in a safe area so the cop won't get hit by a passing car (even if that means using the highway exit if there is no shoulder), roll all your windows down, turn on your dome light at night, keep your hands on the top of the steering wheel, say "Hi officer" and then wait for him/her to talk. Do not argue with him/her. Do not mention your CCW unless specifically asked.

If you were speeding or doing something wrong ADMIT IT (with genuine remorse). :yes4:The handful of people that admitted what they had actually done (and I don't mean saying "well I thought I was only going 10mph over the limit" when in reality you were doing 24mph over) I let off with a warning. Why, because when the officer tells you he saw you do something and you tell him you didn't, you are calling him a liar. How does it make you feel when your kids do that to you?

I would recommend the admittance of guilt only for non-criminal (ie., traffic violations) incidents.

If you have any problems with an officer be kind to him/her, remember as much info as possible and then go to the police station and make a report, or write a letter to the chief.

If you are having a severe problem with an officer comply with his/her instructions and politely ask for their supervisor to respond. Call 911 if neccessary. Cooperate and let your lawyer handle any civil rights violations later.

Just remember never to lose your cool, because it is much harder to de-escalate a situation. :nono:

Be safe. :wink:



The most commons sense advice I have heard so far...sorry didnt read all posts tho!
 
Footnote

One guy stated that carrying was a privilege. WRONG!!! Of course I will surrender my weapon to a LEO. He is doing his JOB. But I resent the implication that he is doing me a favor when he gives it back. The implication that I dont have a right to be carrying my weapon in the first place and that the only reason I am is a fact LE would rather didnt exist. Sorry LEOs I am a citizen and I have rights!!
 
Reasonable vs. Unreasonable

I don't really think that these posts represent even a small minority of LEO's and wonder at times if those even are LEO to start with. However the attitudes range all over the place on how to handle anything. For instance watch this and see how you would handle it if you were a LEO and if you were the one being stopped. Usually the most vocal ones about these types of things are in the minority whether right or wrong. If this has been posted before I apologize but......

Link Removed

When asked a reasonable question by a LEO at a traffic stop (like it or not, ICE is Law Enforcement), it is our responsibility and duty to answer it. One of those reasonable questions is identification.

This guy was clearly looking for a fight. The officers at this scene would have been within their rights to arrest the driver. The term "being detained" has very specific legal meanings, and being stopped so an officer can question you is not one of them.

The difference between being educated in English and being educated in Law...
 
if a cop slams me on my hood just because i have a CCW he is gonna have alot more to worry about than my pistol on y side... its called a lawyer
 
Here is my take on the matter. Do criminals take the time and spend the money to get CCW's? No. Can a traffic stop go bad at any time? Yes. I can't see myself throwing you on your hood just because you have a CCW. However, I also wouldn't let you hold your weapon while I had you stopped. I would ask you where your weapon was, have you step out, I will remove it, then hand it back to you unloaded when we had concluded our business. By the nature of my profession, I don't like being around other people that are armed unless they are LE.

I copied the above response from the original forum. I'm a former LEO, left due to a non-job related injury, but still "have the fire" for the job. If I had been able to reply to this poster, I'd have respectfully suggested he find another line of work, especially after reading his last line. The people who go to the time and effort to get a permit (and maintain the "clean" lifestyle that allows them the privelege) are not the threat. Maybe these LEO's should read the "ten things you should know about CCW holders posted elsewhere in the forums. I had no problem being around legally armed citizens, and still don't. Some cops, however.......:wacko:
 
I copied the above response from the original forum. I'm a former LEO, left due to a non-job related injury, but still "have the fire" for the job. If I had been able to reply to this poster, I'd have respectfully suggested he find another line of work, especially after reading his last line. The people who go to the time and effort to get a permit (and maintain the "clean" lifestyle that allows them the privelege) are not the threat. Maybe these LEO's should read the "ten things you should know about CCW holders posted elsewhere in the forums. I had no problem being around legally armed citizens, and still don't. Some cops, however.......:wacko:

Hi Gary I agree with you on almost every thing you have said with the exception of the last word in the sentence in parenthesis Privilege as long as I am a Law Abiding Citizen it is not a privilege for me to be able to carry a Firearm it is my 2Amendment right to keep and bear Arms under the Constitution of the United States of America!!!:angry:
 
It certainly makes the case for not informing the PO if it isn't state law to do so. The bunch replying were the most ignorant, arrogant, bunch of cops I have ever seen. I've known a number of cops and none have had the attitude that this bunch has.
 
Abuse of power is easy behind the keyboard. I bet you half of them don't throw you on the hood because you have a weapon, legally. In-car cameras help that. Also, like stated earlier, they represent a small portion of LEOs, probably the younger rookies with less experience and tripping on power. I'm not gonna freak out... but throw in my grain of salt.

In SC, we have to inform. My work around... don't speed, use my signals, come to complete stops, and drive defensively. That usually keeps the blue light special at Kmart instead of my rear-view.
 
I think someone else pointed this out, but just because someone posts on a LEO only site, doesn't necessarily mean they're a LEO ... probably a bunch of punks stirring the pot, so to speak. Not that there aren't some LEO's out there running around with an attitude...but to see so many of them concentrated in one place? Seems a bit unlikely.
 
I've posted about this before on this forum. I have had three traffic stops since I got my CCW here in NY. There is no requirement to notify in NY but each time I handed my CCW to the Officer with my DL. I am always respectful and honest and I have always been treated with respect in return.
 
I've posted about this before on this forum. I have had three traffic stops since I got my CCW here in NY. There is no requirement to notify in NY but each time I handed my CCW to the Officer with my DL. I am always respectful and honest and I have always been treated with respect in return.
I wish I could say the same. My son and I were returning from shooting at a legal spot which the BLM directs shooters to and I was stopped. He saw us turn onto the highway from this area and pulled me over. I gave the officer my CHL along with my DL. The 'officer' started to make remarks several times that began variously: "You people who shoot out here..." "When you shooters..." and so on. He caught himself each time and didn't finish his remark, but it was clear that I was getting a ticket solely because he didn't approve of citizens with guns.

I'm fighting the ticket. What he wrote it for has nothing to do with what I did---anybody want to bet that the judge isn't going to care about the facts???
 
There were posts (Ninja or not) about there is not difference, you are a person with a gun..
There is SOME truth to this.. I expect an officer to be more cautious once notified, but I also expect some professionalism.. The thing missing from these stories often is the attitude of the person being stopped.. That can change the action of the LEO quickly..
IF I notify, I have no issue with the LEO removing my gun, un-loading it and giving it back unloaded at the end of the stop.. I just ask that he do it professionally and with some courtesy..
WHY COURTESY?? - I am NOT just another person with a gun.. I have a Conceal permit, this means that I am NOT a felon and have been checked out as clean.. Therefore, don't treat me like a felon!!!
IMHO
 
As a retired Police Officer, I can say that there are some young Jackasses out there. Most Real Cops could care less about a CCW Permit Carrier. They look at it like this: If the guy (or Girl) goes through the background check, the fingerprinting, the testing and training and jumping through the hoops, he's not the guy you have to worry about.
But I have heard and read where some of the younger cops out there are taking people down, cuffing and disarming them when they inform them that they are a permitee and have a gun. Personally, even though I'm a retiree and a permitee, I usually try to disarm and leave the gun in the vehicle if I were to get pulled over. If something happens that you can't, then I guess we have to hope for the best. Most of the folks I stopped or have seen stopped and were permit carriers, were told, OK, thanks for letting me know. But I have never seen or heard of one in my area being disarmed or taken down and frisked. Heck, I've even heard of CCW guys assisting cops during a scuffle. One CCW permit holder here actually had to shoot the bad guy and kill him as the bad guy brutally attacked the Officer and struggled for his gun.

Also understand, there are some assholes out there with permits too. They tend to play this game about my rights, my rights and refuse to cooperate, even when the cop is polite. It's like they have been listening to 24 hours of the Alex Jones Show and are out to prove a point, that the cops can't do this or that and he's the enemy, no matter what. If you get pulled over, try smiling and yes sir, no sir. Anyone would want to be treated with respect. I realize there are some who act like little tyrants, but beleive me, if you file a complaint, those complaints don't go unnoticed after they get a couple of them on the same cop. Action will get taken.

The guys on that forum though are assholes and probably are over doing it since they are behind a computer. It would probably be different on the street. At least that's my guess.
 

New Threads

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
49,542
Messages
611,255
Members
74,961
Latest member
Shodan
Back
Top