Would your action be the same if armed with knife but no gun?

[Wynn]

Edit: I may have posted in the wrong section. Mods please feel free to move if necessary.

Lets say for the sake of this discussion that for whatever reason you have only your knife on you, but no gun. We'll say the knife is a 3" folder for the sake of my example. You are out and about with your wife and child, and are approached by a man who pulls a knife and says "give me your wallet". Many people say that they would shoot if they had a gun as they would be in fear for their life. In this scenario, you dont have a gun. Would you attempt to pull your knife and attack to stop the threat? If not, then why?

What I'm getting at is this- if I had a gun I'd draw, but if I had a knife I dont know if I'd try it. But if thats the case why would I be justified in using deadly force without hesitation if I had my gun (superior firepower) even though I would hesitate/ possibly comply if I merely had a knife? Wouldnt an anti prosecutor argue that I couldnt possibly have truly feared for my life if I were to shoot, when given the same scenario armed with only a knife I would have second thoughts?

This has been bugging me all week. Thoughts?

 

[Wynn]

FWIW after pondering this I've decided a life fearing event will be responded with life saving defense, whether I am armed with a gun, knife, or simply my hands. If I am not in fear for my life I will obviously walk away/ de escalate.

 

[tuts40]

Prepare to get cut. Being cut is serious, deadly. It will happen fast and furious and usually when you are not expecting it so you will get cut. It's a flipp'n drag no doubt. Unless you have lots and lots of training you will get cut when a thug who fights for fun and survival who has cut others before jumps out at you with a knife. Yeah, a flipp'n drag for sure.

Would I react the same? Hell, I don't know how I'd react if I had my gun! ...Nobody does unless they've "been there".

Fun discussion I suppose, tho.

 

[NavyLCDR]

An action being legal does not make that action wise. In your scenario, I will use a gun to defend myself, but not a knife, unless it is a sword. I would hand over the wallet and hope for the best if I wasn't carrying a gun, and I would be in fear for my life if I had a gun or not.

We had hand to hand combat in pre deployment training... the first rule the Army taught us was not to engage in hand to hand combat without a gun, if we could avoid it.

 

[ironmike86]

I grew up with the sport of Kali. My actions would be the same. Walk away if i can fight back if theres no choice.

 

[Wynn]

My thought is that my life would be in the hands of somebody. Rather trust MYSELF with my life than some criminal. Best to just have good SA, and always have your gun with you if you can.

 

[VERDAD Investigations]

Part with the wallet, intend to leave with your wife and child and not the wallet. Until the agressor wants more than a material thing, you may not want to engage. Once more than the wallet is at risk...it's ON.

 

[Iam2Taz]

Having been involved in a few rough and tumbles in some adult establishments as a younger man, I would say, give the BG the wallet. The limited cash I carry is not worth the hospital bills. I can cancel the credit cards.

As noted above, I would be in fear for my and life and given the option of a gun, I'll shoot. (Don't bring a knife to a gun fight comes to mind.)

There is always a tough, wanna be Chuck Norris, guy who would try to take it away. Good luck with that one.

 

[Tucker's Mom]

You have already stated the obvious -- you are with your wife and kid. With those two lovely people with you, you do not go out without a gun. Period. Make it a habit, if you will, never to go out without your gun. It is a nuisance at first but you'll get used to it in time.

 

[mappow]

My question would be do you have any training with a knife and or hand to hand? IF NOT, surrender that the BG possibly has and or is high and desperate so give him your wallet. You really don't want to be sliced an diced in front of your family. Of coarse as MOM states, NEVER go out without a sidearm. This will ensure at least you don't have to be sliced and you'll be able to defend your family better. As for the D.A. and your position with a gun verses a knife. Your in fear of your life or your families life. Draw and drop him.

 

[sargedog]

This may sound silly but I carry 2 ways my cash is in my front pocket,and my wallet in my back pocket. I would just hand over the cash in the front pocket. If that wasn't good enough then I would have to do what needed to be done for my family to get away safe. I am very into knives as much as guns so I always carry 2. The best thing my papaw ever taught me was how to sharpen all my knives. He always said if you can't shave with it, it's not worth having in your pocket.I don't leave home without a handgun and don't go to place they aren't allowed period.I do pray that I am never put in that situation, I will always do what is needed to protect my own.

 

[The_Outlaw]

Edit: I may have posted in the wrong section. Mods please feel free to move if necessary.

Lets say for the sake of this discussion that for whatever reason you have only your knife on you, but no gun. We'll say the knife is a 3" folder for the sake of my example. You are out and about with your wife and child, and are approached by a man who pulls a knife and says "give me your wallet". Many people say that they would shoot if they had a gun as they would be in fear for their life. In this scenario, you dont have a gun. Would you attempt to pull your knife and attack to stop the threat? If not, then why?

What I'm getting at is this- if I had a gun I'd draw, but if I had a knife I dont know if I'd try it. But if thats the case why would I be justified in using deadly force without hesitation if I had my gun (superior firepower) even though I would hesitate/ possibly comply if I merely had a knife? Wouldnt an anti prosecutor argue that I couldnt possibly have truly feared for my life if I were to shoot, when given the same scenario armed with only a knife I would have second thoughts?

This has been bugging me all week. Thoughts?

If I was a highly trained Commando who specialized in hand to hand combat, then Yes, I would definately break out my knife and take the thug out quickly Rambo style.
Am I a hand to hand combat expert? Nope.
Would 'I' go toe to toe with a knife weilding attacker with just a knife on my person?
Probably not.
If the scumbag just wants my watch and my wallet, he can have them. If he wants to harm my wife or child, then it would have to be a battle drenched in bloodshed for both the attacker and myself.

 

[Rich_S]

Edit: I may have posted in the wrong section. Mods please feel free to move if necessary.

Lets say for the sake of this discussion that for whatever reason you have only your knife on you, but no gun. We'll say the knife is a 3" folder for the sake of my example. You are out and about with your wife and child, and are approached by a man who pulls a knife and says "give me your wallet". Many people say that they would shoot if they had a gun as they would be in fear for their life. In this scenario, you dont have a gun. Would you attempt to pull your knife and attack to stop the threat? If not, then why?

What I'm getting at is this- if I had a gun I'd draw, but if I had a knife I dont know if I'd try it. But if thats the case why would I be justified in using deadly force without hesitation if I had my gun (superior firepower) even though I would hesitate/ possibly comply if I merely had a knife? Wouldnt an anti prosecutor argue that I couldnt possibly have truly feared for my life if I were to shoot, when given the same scenario armed with only a knife I would have second thoughts?

This has been bugging me all week. Thoughts?

Even if you're carrying a gun this may not end well for you if you try to use deadly force. Remember the Tueller drill and the 21 foot rule. You never know what the BG's intentions are and what he's prepared to do. Your local laws also need to be considered. Here we can't use deadly force to defend property. If I were carrying a gun or only a knife I'd give up the wallet, hope that would defuse the situation, and also be prepared to take further action by whatever means were available to me.

 

[mappow]

Hard one to call Rich_S. A man with a knife threatening me or my family and I have concealed weapon??? First of all, is he close enough to be a threat, if yes, then draw and drop him. If NO I might warn the individual that I'm armed and he should stand down (although I don't believe I would put it that way to him/her). I'm not one to escalate a situation or have an overwhelming desire to shoot someone. I do have a sense of self preservation and will defend my family accordingly. To just draw, present my weapon and not fire could be said that I escalated the situation and the BG now was merely defending himself. A clean shoot verses a convoluted shoot. Your quote of " Here we can't use deadly force to defend property" is correct BUT if that property is being taken during a threat to your physical being then it's within the law.

 

[fudo]

I carry a gun 99% of the time. When I am in a federal facility, I cannot carry a gun. I do carry a 72" walking stick. I have got a better chance of defending myself and family with that, and my Jodo training than I have with a knife. I occasionally carry a Cold Steel City Stick, it also is better than a knife.
If I am down to defending my self with a 4" knife, a bunch of bad stuff has already happened. I'm out of ammo, my line of retreat is cut off, and there's no help about.

 

[Rich_S]

Hard one to call Rich_S. A man with a knife threatening me or my family and I have concealed weapon??? First of all, is he close enough to be a threat, if yes, then draw and drop him. If NO I might warn the individual that I'm armed and he should stand down (although I don't believe I would put it that way to him/her). I'm not one to escalate a situation or have an overwhelming desire to shoot someone. I do have a sense of self preservation and will defend my family accordingly. To just draw, present my weapon and not fire could be said that I escalated the situation and the BG now was merely defending himself. A clean shoot verses a convoluted shoot. Your quote of " Here we can't use deadly force to defend property" is correct BUT if that property is being taken during a threat to your physical being then it's within the law.

Is he close enough to be a threat? If he is you more than likely wonlt be able to draw and fire in time to stop him. Remember the Tueller drill and the 21 foot rule.

 

[hogwylde]

I'd pull my knife and say "let's dance". 10:1 odds they would change their mind out of the mere surprise that I wasn't scared. People like that thrive off the weak and it's no different than bullying in school. Look at what happens when the picked on kid stands up for himself and finally stands up for himself kicking the bully's ass. Same thing.

Here's a great (but old) example:

 

[BC1]

Would you attempt to pull your knife and attack to stop the threat? If not, then why?

I would agree with Masaad Ayoob's position. I'll give him the wallet because there's never more than about 40 bucks in it. And I'm not getting jammed up by taking his life over $40. I'll follow him the best I can and direct police to him via phone. When you end someone's life in self defense it will probably ruin your life. You'll probably incur a very large legal bill. You will probably lose your guns until the matter is settled and, depending on the state, you may be sued in civl court for your actions, even if justified.

Now, if I'm wearing that Rolex he's going down before I give it up. There's a limit to my passive nature.

BTW, anyone who tells you exactly how they would defend themselves is wrong. One cannot predict behavior in a deadly-force defensive situation without experiencing the phsyiological and psychological changes that will occur or knowing the EXACT environment in which the incident unfolds. This isn't a fight in the schoolyard. There are too many variables. I can train a skill-set into a student but I can't teach him how the threat will present itself. He must apply the learned skills to his situation.

 

[Rich_S]

I'd pull my knife and say "let's dance". 10:1 odds they would change their mind out of the mere surprise that I wasn't scared. People like that thrive off the weak and it's no different than bullying in school. Look at what happens when the picked on kid stands up for himself and finally stands up for himself kicking the bully's ass. Same thing.

Here's a great (but old) example:

Unless you're ready, willing, and able to actually defend an attack with the knife that's a REALLY bad idea. The same applies when pulling a gun. Never pull a weapon unless you're ready to use it.

 

[Ambassador4JC]

Even if i had my gun and all the guy wanted was my wallet, then i would just give him my wallet. No material thing is worth the risk of losing my own life or even the life of a family member. Even If I did use deadly force with my gun, then I must prove that it was absolutely necessary in court which can be a whole other problem with no witnesses or even witnesses that are friends of the assailant. But if your actuall "life" is at stake or ESPECIALLY my wife or childs life is at stake then its an entirely different story and it wont matter what happens in court so long as you protect your family. However like some have said before, we all really have no idea what we will do in that situation whether we think we will or not.