Would I be lawfully able to draw my ccw in this situation?


JJaggar

New member
I am a fairly small person 5'7, skinny, bout 125 pounds. If I was physically attacked by one or 2 persons significantly bigger than myself, say the attackers are not armed with any weapons but their own means of brutality (fists, kicks) I wouldn't ever want to draw my pistol on anyone without a weapon, but I'm not a good fighter. Like what if while I was getting beat up they saw I carried and could grab my gun and use it against me. My question is would i lawfully be able to use my firearm in a situation such as this?
 

BluesStringer

Les Brers
Bofh is right about it varying from state to state, but generally-speaking, the standard is state of mind of a "reasonable person" rather than actual, tangible evidence (such as the presence of a weapon by your assailant) for when use of deadly force is authorized. Witness the case of George Zimmerman. FL has a strong Stand Your Ground law. It was determined by the cops the night of the incident that his use of deadly force fell within the parameters of that law, and he was released. After the hoopla arose and the state's AG got involved, Zimmerman's attorneys chose not to go to a SYG hearing, where, had Zimmerman prevailed, there never would've been a trial. The "reasonable person" standard for being in fear for one's life can come from having one's head bashed against a wall or a concrete sidewalk or punched, kicked or stomped just as assuredly as staring down the barrel of a gun can invoke the same reasonable fear. Most states' laws recognize that these calculations are made in the heat of battle and attempt to balance (to one degree or another) between the human instinct for survival against law that provides for public safety. Like Zimmerman, it may take a jury trial to impose which side is weighted more heavily on the balancing scale, but whether it be a decision by the cop on the street or the local prosecutor evaluating pursuing charges or the jury at the end of a trial, the reasonable person standard is always (supposed to be) employed throughout their determination process in every jurisdiction that I've ever looked into in this country.

Bottom line, you will always have to justify the use of a gun as an act of self-defense. If you can't get to self-defense through the reasonable person standard, whatever that means to the people you're trying to justify your actions to, then you're most likely not going to fare too well. In other words, there is no absolute correct answer to your question. And jurisdiction definitely has meaning. In most states, even in 1984, Bernard Goetz never would've faced trial for the shooting he was involved in, but in NYC, he went to trial for charges ranging from attempted murder at the top, to several weapons charges at the bottom, only one of which of the latter was he convicted on. He spent 8 months of a one-year sentence in prison on that one charge, and was subsequently financially ruined when one of the survivors sued him and won a judgment of $43 million. Shooting someone, even when reasonable people would have done the same thing, is always a crap-shoot. Sometimes you'll win, and sometimes you'll lose, and I am talking about the legal battle that may ensue after the fact, not the battle for your life that you presumably believed you were in at the time of the shooting.

Blues
 

NavyLCDR

New member
A big difference in "drawing" your weapon and firing your weapon.

If you would not be justified in immediately firing the gun, then you should not be drawing it. Drawing the gun with an intention to intimidate in circumstances other than self-defense that would warrant immediately firing the gun in self-defense is, in most states, illegal. I would like to see a citation to a justification in any state that allows only drawing or pointing a firearm in self defense when shooting in self defense would be illegal. Although, I suppose, in a duty to retreat state one could say they drew their gun while attempting to escape as a precaution should a safe escape become impossible.

To the OP - depends a lot on the state you would be located in - which you have failed to provide.
 

mappow

New member
Most States state "that you are in fear of death or serious bodily harm" you can use deadly force. I add that the burden of proof will very greatly in the jurisdiction the event occurred in.
 

audiophile

New member
If you would not be justified in immediately firing the gun, then you should not be drawing it. Drawing the gun with an intention to intimidate in circumstances other than self-defense that would warrant immediately firing the gun in self-defense is, in most states, illegal. I would like to see a citation to a justification in any state that allows only drawing or pointing a firearm in self defense when shooting in self defense would be illegal. Although, I suppose, in a duty to retreat state one could say they drew their gun while attempting to escape as a precaution should a safe escape become impossible.

To the OP - depends a lot on the state you would be located in - which you have failed to provide.
In most states the use of a weapon for self defense is justified to stop the threat. If simply drawing a weapon cause the assailant to retreat and the threat has ended, there is nothing illegal with that. But like others have said, you need to know your state laws and the laws of any state you plan on carrying in.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 

SR9

New member
JJaggar,
Suggest you check laws in your state. Opinions are like buttholes, everybody has one. You are talking about a very serious subject. There no room for error or speculation. his is something that will affect you, your family, the attacker, and their families. Like I say, no room for error. With your permit comes a lot of responsibility.
 

JJaggar

New member
Thanks for the responses everyone. I would never draw my firearm if I didn't intend to use it, and my state is VA.
 

Wild Dog

Banned
Have you thought about training in the martial arts? In the scenario you described, I have no doubt that my superior hand to hand skill would take down two punks in the blink of an eye.
 

TroutKing

New member
Have you thought about training in the martial arts? In the scenario you described, I have no doubt that my superior hand to hand skill would take down two punks in the blink of an eye.
Next you'll say your hands are registered weapons?????? You're a hoot!
 

BigSlick

New member
Next you'll say your hands are registered weapons?????? You're a hoot!

I guess they would be with sleeve guns :biggrin:. Wild Dog thinks he's a Ferrari but he's nothing more than a Ford Pinto with a busted muffler. I think he's off his meds.
 

Blueshell

Banned
I am a fairly small person 5'7, skinny, bout 125 pounds. If I was physically attacked by one or 2 persons significantly bigger than myself, say the attackers are not armed with any weapons but their own means of brutality (fists, kicks) I wouldn't ever want to draw my pistol on anyone without a weapon, but I'm not a good fighter. Like what if while I was getting beat up they saw I carried and could grab my gun and use it against me. My question is would i lawfully be able to use my firearm in a situation such as this?
We aren lawyers, asking the Internet this question is unwise.
 

XD40scinNC

New member
I am a fairly small person 5'7, skinny, bout 125 pounds. If I was physically attacked by one or 2 persons significantly bigger than myself, say the attackers are not armed with any weapons but their own means of brutality (fists, kicks) I wouldn't ever want to draw my pistol on anyone without a weapon, but I'm not a good fighter. Like what if while I was getting beat up they saw I carried and could grab my gun and use it against me. My question is would i lawfully be able to use my firearm in a situation such as this?

As mentioned by others, depends on your states laws.

In my state, the use of lethal force is justified to prevent death, serious injury, or sexual assault. Given that a single kick to the head can kill, it would be justified in my state.
 

Oldgrunt

Active member
Tool of LAST RESORT!!!

When you are a little fellow like JJaggar, that is your tool of last resort. Remember, he said he couldn't fight well so he would be foolish to let someone pound him into the ground. I remember an old saw, "Don't start a fight with an old man who can't fight. He will kill you!" Could apply to a little man also.
 

RedWriter2015

New member
What's the adage: Better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6?

Know and abide by your state's laws! I am NOT a lawyer, however, so I don't give 2A or other legal advice.

P.S. I am shorter at 5'5" and probably older (63), but I also live in a very RED/2A-friendly state. I'll take my chances here, TY.
 

vernsimpson

New member
When you are a little fellow like JJaggar, that is your tool of last resort. Remember, he said he couldn't fight well so he would be foolish to let someone pound him into the ground. I remember an old saw, "Don't start a fight with an old man who can't fight. He will kill you!" Could apply to a little man also.

Very good advise OG! I remember a old post that you did about how you aren't the young spry person you once were. I am in the same condition. :sad: Which is one reason why I carry. Years ago I may have been able to at least make the BG limp away. But today most likely the BG will have a club, knife or a gun and will not just be satisfied with taking only my wallet or money.

It seems the BG's today want to take your life along with your money!!
 

Blueshell

Banned
I am a fairly small person 5'7, skinny, bout 125 pounds. If I was physically attacked by one or 2 persons significantly bigger than myself, say the attackers are not armed with any weapons but their own means of brutality (fists, kicks) I wouldn't ever want to draw my pistol on anyone without a weapon, but I'm not a good fighter. Like what if while I was getting beat up they saw I carried and could grab my gun and use it against me. My question is would i lawfully be able to use my firearm in a situation such as this?
The only people who can honestly answer this question are the jurers at your trial.
 

XD40scinNC

New member
The county Sheriff and the DA have been holding community meetings on the rights of citizens to use lethal force for self defense.

The question was specifically asked, can a person with limited physical ability draw on a younger, stronger, or multiple bad guys threat even if a weapon is not seen. The answer was yes, if you see younger, stronger bad guys as a threat that could cause you serious injury or death. Just being knocked to the ground could do that in the elderly, broken hips, etc.

State law states that the use of lethal force is justified to prevent serious injury, sexual assault or death.
 

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