Worst LEO Weapon Retension practice I've ever seen

[marcparis]

At Starbucks in downtown Portland yesterday, I saw a plain clothes LEO there talking to a Multnomah Sheriff. He had what looked like a Glock 26 or 27 with +2 base plate in an OWB holster at 4-5 oclock with no retention device. His shirt was tucked in so the weapons was clearly visible, uncovered, and exposed (not even tucked close to the body). They were talking and he seemed oblivious to to who had potential access to his firearm. Waiting in line it was right in front of me. If I had been a BG and I had wanted to, all I had to do was extend my arm and his gun would be in my hand. I wouldn't have even needed to knock a covering arm out of the way. He was actually waiting for his drink next to the door talking to the Sheriff with his back to the door and anybody coming in could have grabbed it as well.

Seemed like a pretty poor weapon retention practice to me. I hope he doesn't carry one in the chamber since that's the only thing that might save him if somebody did try to grab it (although a semi experienced BG would tap rack after grabbing the gun so that won't help in those situations). How often do people see LEOs practice poor weapon retention

 

[SGB]

And your qualifications in weapons retention are?

 

[Firefighterchen]

What kind of holster was it? A lot of the newer kydex holsters have internal locks, and maybe you missed where the button was. Black hawks are pretty obvious with the trigger finger releaess while the safarilan als is a smaller thumb button behind the firearm Good thing you aren't a bad guy, you might of found a sharp piece of metal in your arm, chest, neck, or face if you were. Most LEO's carry a knife opposite a firearm for gun grab defense.

Add: If he is an OC, there isn't really a point in having the gun hug your body, as it just slows down the draw, and keeping the firearm close to the body is more for concealment. My open carry holster keeps the grip quite a ways off my body compared to my concealment holster. I do not carry openly at 4-5 oclock though, because it also slows down my reaction time, and causes me to rotate my upperbody and lift my shoulder, which in a panic state, can cause accuracy issues.

 

[endorphine44]

And your qualifications in weapons retention are?

I doubt OP has ever tried to snag a pistol out of someone else's holster while they're wearing it. Here's a hint...it's not near as smooth or easy as it looked in that movie you were watching.

 

[Warbirds]

And your qualifications in weapons retention are?

His primary qualification is that he was there and actually saw what he posted.

His post does bring out valid points regarding weapon retention. Unless of course you also were there and would like to enlighten us.

 

[Kasper]

His primary qualification is that he was there and actually saw what he posted.

His post does bring out valid points regarding weapon retention. Unless of course you also were there and would like to enlighten us.

Well even if his points are valid, He lacked the details that have been asked about the holster. With that said I can not say one way or the other due to lack of information about the holster.

 

[SGB]

His primary qualification is that he was there and actually saw what he posted.

His post does bring out valid points regarding weapon retention. Unless of course you also were there and would like to enlighten us.

Belonging to the small percentage of individuals here who actually teach weapons retention, having successfully defeated several gun grabs while in uniform and as holster maker I think I've got a good grasp of what constitutes adequate weapons retention. The OP has offered no baseline as to which we may judge the validity of his observation. His post is long on assumption and short on specifics.

 

[Deserteagle]

If he doesn't use a retention holster(notice the correct spelling of retention), you can at least count on him being trained in retaining his gun in the case somebody tries to grab it.

 

[Warbirds]

His primary qualification is that he was there and actually saw what he posted.

His post does bring out valid points regarding weapon retention. Unless of course you also were there and would like to enlighten us.

Belonging to the small percentage of individuals here who actually teach weapons retention, having successfully defeated several gun grabs while in uniform and as holster maker I think I've got a good grasp of what constitutes adequate weapons retention. The OP has offered no baseline as to which we may judge the validity of his observation. His post is long on assumption and short on specifics.

Where in your first post did you bring any of your knowledge forward? You choose to criticize from a holier than you attitude instead of asking any questions that could have drawn the proper information from the OP. For all we know it was plain leather holster with no retention devices at all.

So please enlighten us. I Think everyone here could use more food for thought when it comes to weapon retention.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Lets not thread jack, stop with the credentials argument, focus on the OP. Right after his post, I posted some decent questions about the scenario. Lets let the OP give some more details so we can have a thoughtful discussion.

 

[Glock Fan]

Keep in mind that if you were able to ID the man as LEO, it's highly likely that he was on duty. All of the LE Agencies that I'm aware of have requirements and specifications for equipment used on duty. With that said, it's highly likely that the holster did have a retention device that the OP missed or the LEO was one that was in violation of agency policy. If he was violating agency policy, I'm sure he won't be employed very long.

Rest assured OP, I'm fairly confident that the LE had an adequate holster for his duty weapon and was properly trained in retention tactics.

 

[SGB]

Where in your first post did you bring any of your knowledge forward? You choose to criticize from a holier than you attitude instead of asking any questions that could have drawn the proper information from the OP. For all we know it was plain leather holster with no retention devices at all.

So please enlighten us. I Think everyone here could use more food for thought when it comes to weapon retention.

I asked the OP a valid question and then responded to your asinine post. And now I'm responding to your other asinine (and less than accurate) post. If you want lessons in weapons retention I suggest you spend a few bucks and take a class.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Lets not thread jack, stop with the credentials argument, focus on the OP. Right after his post, I posted some decent questions about the scenario. Lets let the OP give some more details so we can have a thoughtful discussion.

(OPENS ENVELOPE)

And the award for attempting to un-hijack this thread goes to Firefighterchen. Please come up on stage and give a brief acceptance speech and pick up your CCW Badge on the table next to the podium.

Thank you thank you. I would like to thank my...wait..wait...you just hijacked the thread again!!! Dang it...

But in all seriousness...is the OP going to expand on this encounter? If he isn't then let the thread jacking commence.

 

[wolfetundra]

And your qualifications in weapons retention are?

I completed POST (which covered Weapon Retension) and based on what the OP observed and reported, it is clearly poor retention. You always cover your firearm, never leave your back/strong side open and exposed ... step one; be aware of your surroundings.

 

[Samuel]

Without closer inspection of the holster, there is no way to tell if there is an actual additional retention device incorporated into the holster. For instance lots of leather holsters require you to twist, rock, or do a combination to the handgun in order to pull the handgun out.

Without personally knowing it, there are firearms that have a magazine disconnect that are becoming popular with police departments due to the retention aspect. I do not like these for various reason I won't go into.

I've also seen a holster, can't remember what brand (Galco, Bianchi or Safariland?), that has a thumb button on the inside holster - hard to explain unless you see it. There is no way to see this retention unless you are wearing it.

 

[SGB]

I completed POST (which covered Weapon Retension) and based on what the OP observed and reported, it is clearly poor retention. You always cover your firearm, never leave your back/strong side open and exposed ... step one; be aware of your surroundings.

Welcome aboard ............ WTF is Post? And please explain how it's "clearly" poor retention as some of us obviously don't see it being so "clear".

 

[Hoganbeg]

Peace Officer Standards And Training

 

[Firefighterchen]

Without closer inspection of the holster, there is no way to tell if there is an actual additional retention device incorporated into the holster. For instance lots of leather holsters require you to twist, rock, or do a combination to the handgun in order to pull the handgun out.

Without personally knowing it, there are firearms that have a magazine disconnect that are becoming popular with police departments due to the retention aspect. I do not like these for various reason I won't go into.

I've also seen a holster, can't remember what brand (Galco, Bianchi or Safariland?), that has a thumb button on the inside holster - hard to explain unless you see it. There is no way to see this retention unless you are wearing it.

Safariland als has a thumb button that releases a locking mechanism that latches into the ejection port. Won't be able to see it unless you are looking for it.

Bladetech WRS has a spring loaded hood that is released by a thumb break. A lot more obvious.

As far as magazine disconnect, how do you relate that to retention?

 

[wolfetundra]

Welcome aboard ............ WTF is Post? And please explain how it's "clearly" poor retention as some of us obviously don't see it being so "clear".

POST is Peace Officer Standards and Training.
The "Clear" aspect I'm referring to is the mentioned lack of any thumb break or any form of retention to prevent a straight draw of the firearm. As many have said, without the OP being more descriptive of the holster, we cannot assume he has anything more than what the OP said he had.

In addition to that, the poor retention, as I already stated, is his (as described by the OP) lack of effort in "covering" his firearm and by placing his backside/strongside open to the public. He should cover his firearm, which will act as a deterrent, and keep his back against a wall to prevent would-be gun snatchers from coming up behind him.

Number one step in weapon retention is being aware of your surroundings.

 

[Warbirds]

Where in your first post did you bring any of your knowledge forward? You choose to criticize from a holier than you attitude instead of asking any questions that could have drawn the proper information from the OP. For all we know it was plain leather holster with no retention devices at all.

So please enlighten us. I Think everyone here could use more food for thought when it comes to weapon retention.

I asked the OP a valid question and then responded to your asinine post. And now I'm responding to your other asinine (and less than accurate) post. If you want lessons in weapons retention I suggest you spend a few bucks and take a class.

You must teach for the Canton PD.

You seen to have the same I walk on water attitude. I refuse to take a class that makes you feel dumber than before you enter. So your classes are out.

If you can't see how snide your answeres are then you will be the first on my block list. Try being a human being.