Wonder Where the NRA is with On-Line Training?

[mdkoh]

Wanted to pass this along to those who participated in my last post about on-line training. I never knew where the NRA stood on this but I am very relieved to know they do have a position. If you do on-line training be very aware of this.


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The law is pretty vague by including language such as "course". I still think nothing better thn meeting your students face to face!

 

[wolf_fire]

I teach physics in high school and our administration wants us to provide an online course for a laboratory based physics class. Stupefied, I asked them how the students are to perform the required hands-on lab activities online. They told me I had to be creative and to quit being a nay-sayer. (Apparently, any time you question anything, you are labeled a "naysayer") I shook my head and walked away from that meeting. To this day, we do not have an online lab based physics course. The reason? It's hands on!!!

How does one show another how to use a firearm correctly unless they are there to witness you handling a firearm correctly?? I agree with the NRA stance on this issue.

The Internet is a great tool, but all tools are limited in their scope and as such we should know the limitations of using it. Can I bang a nail into wood with the slide of my Glock with its tenifer (or the new nitration) finish? Yes. Should I? No.

 

[JimPage]

It's the stupidest idea I've heard since "gun control."

 

[Keykutter]

America has become a 'push the button' society. I am glad the NRA is taking a stand against online CCW training.

KK

 

[Firefighterchen]

They would lose way too much money from all their "NRA certified instructors.". Bad business...I mean it has nothing to do with "shall not be infringed..." Follow the money.

 

[jaya]

I do not think it is all about money. As an instructor, I am saying that this person is competent with a firearm. There is no way that I would sign that if I had not seen them shoot. Safety is number one. I can even decide to let someone take a course or remove them from that course for any reason that I see fit. In NC, the concealed carry class is a minimum standard. We can make the course more strict. For example, the qualifying course of fire is a minimum of 30 shots with 18 hits. I can make that longer and more strict if I so choose, which I do.

 

[Firefighterchen]

I do not think it is all about money. As an instructor, I am saying that this person is competent with a firearm. There is no way that I would sign that if I had not seen them shoot. Safety is number one. I can even decide to let someone take a course or remove them from that course for any reason that I see fit. In NC, the concealed carry class is a minimum standard. We can make the course more strict. For example, the qualifying course of fire is a minimum of 30 shots with 18 hits. I can make that longer and more strict if I so choose, which I do.

Are your classes free? It's about safety right....not money...not about shall not be infringed...it must feel good to be able to deny someone else's Rights ya?

In Washington I just have to be alive to exercise my 2A.

The bolded part of your post is exactly why gun control is ********. Elitists who keep making a Right HARDER to get, all for "safety." Soon your ridiculous idea of who qualifies for a Right will be the normal curriculum, then what...soon it will be pay $2000 + 500 rounds, minimum 90% accuracy...failure constitutes forfeiture of money, wait 6 months to try again...if you pass wait 12 months for a permission slip, reapply every 2 years from time of class. what's freedom without our instructors permission right?

 

[mclureb]

Are your classes free? It's about safety right....not money...not about shall not be infringed...it must feel good to be able to deny someone else's Rights ya?

In Washington I just have to be alive to exercise my 2A.

The bolded part of your post is exactly why gun control is ********. Elitists who keep making a Right HARDER to get, all for "safety." Soon your ridiculous idea of who qualifies for a Right will be the normal curriculum, then what...soon it will be pay $2000 + 500 rounds, minimum 90% accuracy...failure constitutes forfeiture of money, wait 6 months to try again...if you pass wait 12 months for a permission slip, reapply every 2 years from time of class. what's freedom without our instructors permission right?

If we are forced to take training in order to carry concealed (I agree we shouldn't have to pay to exercise a right) I don't see how online training would be effective unless you have a practice range in your basement.

 

[jaya]

Are your classes free? It's about safety right....not money...not about shall not be infringed...it must feel good to be able to deny someone else's Rights ya?

In Washington I just have to be alive to exercise my 2A.

The bolded part of your post is exactly why gun control is ********. Elitists who keep making a Right HARDER to get, all for "safety." Soon your ridiculous idea of who qualifies for a Right will be the normal curriculum, then what...soon it will be pay $2000 + 500 rounds, minimum 90% accuracy...failure constitutes forfeiture of money, wait 6 months to try again...if you pass wait 12 months for a permission slip, reapply every 2 years from time of class. what's freedom without our instructors permission right?

I do charge for classes, do you get paid for your work? However, when we sign a piece of paper saying that someone is competent with a firearm, I am going to make sure that they are competent. You may call me an elitist or whatever, that does not bother me. I am not denying someone a right to carry in any way. In NC we can open carry without a permit. Yes I choose to make the shooting qualification more strict and do so by requiring more than the 30 shot minimum. I use a 50 round test. It is my name on the line. There is a small chance that I might have to go to court if one of my students has a self defense shooting. There are requirements that we must teach in our class. We do have the option of using the state course or making one up of our own. We can also get into trouble if we are teaching something completely off the wall. You do not like my requirements, take the class from someone else. It is my name and reputation on the line. In reguards to this topic, how can someone prove competency with a firearm through an online course? They can't.

 

[Firefighterchen]

I do charge for classes, do you get paid for your work? However, when we sign a piece of paper saying that someone is competent with a firearm, I am going to make sure that they are competent. You may call me an elitist or whatever, that does not bother me. I am not denying someone a right to carry in any way. In NC we can open carry without a permit. Yes I choose to make the shooting qualification more strict and do so by requiring more than the 30 shot minimum. I use a 50 round test. It is my name on the line. There is a small chance that I might have to go to court if one of my students has a self defense shooting. There are requirements that we must teach in our class. We do have the option of using the state course or making one up of our own. We can also get into trouble if we are teaching something completely off the wall. You do not like my requirements, take the class from someone else. It is my name and reputation on the line. In reguards to this topic, how can someone prove competency with a firearm through an online course? They can't.

What is it about "Shall not be infringed" that you don't get? Keep on tearing down the 2A, your doing a great job at it...your even getting paid to do it!

 

[JimTh]

Here is my question to you ccw "trainers". Why is someone that decides to open carry any more dangerous than a person that wants to concealed carry. I am a licensed professional in my state (no not firearms) and I am in private practice. I could go to the local government or state government agencies and tell them we need all sorts of new regulations that are specific to my profession. Trust me, it is done all the time. The vast majority of regulation is a direct result of the input of those that have a financial interest in the outcome and adoption of regulation, that are in a private practice that will reap a windfall from the enforcement of the regulations. You would be surprised at the amount of crap you are forced to pay for via taxes and government fees that was the result of private industry encouragement. You want to see what I am talking about...just go look at your local zoning ordinance. So if I am capable of handling a firearm safely because I was taught as a child, why do I need your course...so I will know when to shoot someone and it be deemed legal? My apologies, but I don't think a course will prepare me to shoot another human being. Take the 20 minute online course, pay the 20 bucks and get your ccw. If you are unfamiliar with firearms then go ahead and take the course.

 

[JimTh]

If we are forced to take training in order to carry concealed (I agree we shouldn't have to pay to exercise a right) I don't see how online training would be effective unless you have a practice range in your basement.

Is there no place to shoot a pistol where you live other than your basement. Perhaps you do not need a gun if you cannot be training once in a while. I agree with you, if you can't shoot your gun in the basement and there are no other places to train, you do not need a firearm.

An engineer does not get to be a professional until they work for several years practicing their trade. You cannot learn how to be a competent engineer just by going to take a class...you need to practice practice practice. Same holds true with firearms. But here is the difference. No amount of training will ever get you prepared and ready to use a firearm for defensive purposes. Those moments are for you and your God. Just ask any soldier. In WWII the rate for a soldier being able to pull the trigger was pretty low. That is what makes us human and spiritual...our desire to not harm another person. Some folks will even die because they cannot bring themselves to pull the trigger. No amount of training will get you to pull the trigger.

 

[jaya]

Should a felon have the right to own firearms? They have their constitional rights removed unless they somehow have them restored. In NC, our state constitution does allow the general assembly to limit concealed carry but not open carry. States rights do trump national rights. Yes I would love to see that changed and them not be able to limit concealed carry. I have no problem with open carry and even oc at times myself. We fought hard this year for the adoption of a good amount of changes in our states concealed carry laws. We are fighting the battle to reduce regulations in our state. We did not loose our rights all at once and cannot restore them all at once. What was passed here last week is the most comprehensive change for restoring 2a rights in 20 years. You might say that I am anti 2a but that is complete BS. I have been very active in dealing with our state government in trying to get this past. I can show you many email exchanges between me and my representatives iin state government. I have met with many of them personally to voice my opinions. I am definantly active in promoting our wa rights. What have you done lately other than ***** at someone you don't know saying they are anti 2a?

 

[Firefighterchen]

Should a felon have the right to own firearms? They have their constitional rights removed unless they somehow have them restored. In NC, our state constitution does allow the general assembly to limit concealed carry but not open carry. States rights do trump national rights. Yes I would love to see that changed and them not be able to limit concealed carry. I have no problem with open carry and even oc at times myself. We fought hard this year for the adoption of a good amount of changes in our states concealed carry laws. We are fighting the battle to reduce regulations in our state. We did not loose our rights all at once and cannot restore them all at once. What was passed here last week is the most comprehensive change for restoring 2a rights in 20 years. You might say that I am anti 2a but that is complete BS. I have been very active in dealing with our state government in trying to get this past. I can show you many email exchanges between me and my representatives iin state government. I have met with many of them personally to voice my opinions. I am definantly active in promoting our wa rights. What have you done lately other than ***** at someone you don't know saying they are anti 2a?

What does convicted felons have to do with training infringements on citizens?

Did you fight for constitutional carry? Doubt it, you make your living off of infringing on the 2A.

I have do everything you have done minus denying anyone's rights by making those training requirements even deeper infringements.

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck, no matter how much the duck thinks it's a swan. Keep on pushing for that 2A privilege, I'll fight for the 2A Right.

 

[JimTh]

Should a felon have the right to own firearms? They have their constitional rights removed unless they somehow have them restored. In NC, our state constitution does allow the general assembly to limit concealed carry but not open carry. States rights do trump national rights. Yes I would love to see that changed and them not be able to limit concealed carry. I have no problem with open carry and even oc at times myself. We fought hard this year for the adoption of a good amount of changes in our states concealed carry laws. We are fighting the battle to reduce regulations in our state. We did not loose our rights all at once and cannot restore them all at once. What was passed here last week is the most comprehensive change for restoring 2a rights in 20 years. You might say that I am anti 2a but that is complete BS. I have been very active in dealing with our state government in trying to get this past. I can show you many email exchanges between me and my representatives iin state government. I have met with many of them personally to voice my opinions. I am definantly active in promoting our wa rights. What have you done lately other than ***** at someone you don't know saying they are anti 2a?

The answer to your question is...in most states felons do have the right to own a firearm. The felon usually has to jump through a few hoops to have their rights restored but, and I am sorry if this troubles you, but yes yes and he'll yes. When do you stop punishing your children by the way? A felon can even get a ccw by taking the online course. Not to bust your bubble but Lanza, Holmes, Dorner...none of them were felons. What does that mean? Maybe folks that do not have felony records should not be allowed to have a firearm or a ccw. Did it ever occur to any numbskull on this board that most of those Chicago kids that are whacking each other day in and day out that maybe just maybe they are not felons in the eyes of the law. The point is this...nobody can be trusted with a firearm! How many killings each year are committed by firearms in the hands of those that have never been convicted of a felony. Now how many of those murders were at the hands of convicted felons that have had there firearm rights restored. Hey...here's a simple fact...a person that kills another human being is less likely to kill again after his or her release than say...you are. How does that make you feel...you are more likely to kill another human than someone that has already killed and has been released from prison. Maybe you are the one that needs to be restricted from possessing a firearm after all you are the one that even instructs folks on when to use deadly force. Perhaps that is where you get a holier than thou complex.

I really wish you folks that pretend to be the experts on firearms and the law would actually educate yourselves. By the way everything I have put in this post is information that is widely available on the Internet. One other item that may interest you...do you know why there is such a law prohibiting felons from having firearms. It is called the 1968 Firearms Control Act. See if you can figure out why the Act was enacted. Here is a hint...what was the cultural shift in the 60's that politicians used as the mechanism to pass the 68 Act? I will give you a smiley face if you get the answer right!

 

[snatale42]

I do not think it is all about money. As an instructor, I am saying that this person is competent with a firearm. There is no way that I would sign that if I had not seen them shoot. Safety is number one. I can even decide to let someone take a course or remove them from that course for any reason that I see fit. In NC, the concealed carry class is a minimum standard. We can make the course more strict. For example, the qualifying course of fire is a minimum of 30 shots with 18 hits. I can make that longer and more strict if I so choose, which I do.

Most states don't require live fire, which is why face to face is pointless most of the time. I'm not denying that you get more out of doing it face to face most of the time, and it IS the way I personally prefer and recommend to people. But lets be realistic, if you can get a MASTERS DEGREE online, you can get a BASIC firearms safety cert. Here in VA many do the online stuff, I sat with my buddy and watched his, they went over everything my "real" NRA class did, plus honestly, a lot more. That's just one, I can't speak for others but if a state doesn't require live fire as most don't I don't see the issue.

 

[todd]

I dont think one can do online training and keep standard up. The internet is great and love it but some skill must be hands on. Case in point, years ago a martial arts organization, meaning well, tried to do video practical for students. The lesson they learned was they spent more time trying to correct and explain. They abandoned it beacause wojld of meant some standars neeex dropped and they didnt want to compromise. As I said some skill sets just need to be taught hands on.