Wife draws at Walmart

[longslide10]

isn't the definition of "cop" citizen on patrol?

 

[XD40scinNC]

LOve all these responses stating what should have been said. Curious. How many of you practice not only your draw and shooting techniques, but your responses as well.

Unless you have walked the walk, give it a rest.

Lady did da** good job. I would bet money the person she said that too has no memory of the actual words spoken.

So you would answer in the affirmative if someone asked you if you were a cop? If you are that rattled that you don't understand that you are not, then I really wonder if you need to carry.

Granted, it was a scary situation but to answer she was a cop, no that is not a rehearsed response, or a rational one, and could have created some serious legal issues if the person asking were a LEO.

 

[mappow]

Ok, now we've all had your say. I repeat my last in a more expounded form. She had every right to carry in that store if she has a CWP. NOT one hundred percent sure what that State law says but most States dictate that your license is to protect YOU. Some States will also give you room to engage IF others you witness are in possible danger of extreme physical harm or possibly lethal harm.
The OP stated “Wife was shopping in a local Walmart earlier today when a crazy guy came in screaming profanity and issuing orders to the staff. Not sure if he was armed.”
BUT….”drew her Ruger .40 from her IWB”
Really, without a noticeable threat that SHE witnessed that could and would do bodily harm to her and others she just drew her weapon? REALLY????
She was no hero, she was aware of her surroundings and took action. Far beyond what I would have taken. IMHO far beyond what would have been legal in this situation. I commend her for being aware, placing her hand on her weapon would MAYBE been prudent. To draw her weapon, again IMHO, was not. How would an LEO responding to this situation know that she wasn’t a backup to the perp?
MY question is at what time did she feel mortally threatened or had visually saw anyone mortally threatened? Why would she draw her weapon without a substantiated threat? You wanna be a COP and “Protect and Defend” then be one. YOU have a CWP and THINK in your own mind you’re a protector of freedom and liberty then go for it. (Probably didn’t put that on your CWP application)
Bottom line is. You carry, you engage, you do what you think is prudent. For most of you, I’d have a good defense ATTY on retainer. JUZ SAYING……..Too many John Wayne’s chimed in.

 

[XD40scinNC]

isn't the definition of "cop" citizen on patrol?

In a court of law; NO And that is the only place that it really matters.

Additionally it is not common usage or slang, but;

The word "cop" is an old Anglo-Saxon verb for catch, grab or capture, deriving from a noun "cop" dating back at least to the 1100s. Some sources say this word related to the Dutch word kapen, with a similar meaning. The earliest written documentation of the form "cop" as a verb in English dates to 1704.

 

[mojoman]

Why does everything happen at Wal Mart?

I know what you mean, but have you gone to see all of the peoples that goes to Wal-Mart, I have gone at 2:00 am and you will see all kind of things there, it's kind of intertaining to see.

 

[Gr8gunz]

Ok, now we've all had your say. I repeat my last in a more expounded form. She had every right to carry in that store if she has a CWP. NOT one hundred percent sure what that State law says but most States dictate that your license is to protect YOU. Some States will also give you room to engage IF others you witness are in possible danger of extreme physical harm or possibly lethal harm.
The OP stated “Wife was shopping in a local Walmart earlier today when a crazy guy came in screaming profanity and issuing orders to the staff. Not sure if he was armed.”
BUT….”drew her Ruger .40 from her IWB”
Really, without a noticeable threat that SHE witnessed that could and would do bodily harm to her and others she just drew her weapon? REALLY????
She was no hero, she was aware of her surroundings and took action. Far beyond what I would have taken. IMHO far beyond what would have been legal in this situation. I commend her for being aware, placing her hand on her weapon would MAYBE been prudent. To draw her weapon, again IMHO, was not. How would an LEO responding to this situation know that she wasn’t a backup to the perp?
MY question is at what time did she feel mortally threatened or had visually saw anyone mortally threatened? Why would she draw her weapon without a substantiated threat? You wanna be a COP and “Protect and Defend” then be one. YOU have a CWP and THINK in your own mind you’re a protector of freedom and liberty then go for it. (Probably didn’t put that on your CWP application)
Bottom line is. You carry, you engage, you do what you think is prudent. For most of you, I’d have a good defense ATTY on retainer. JUZ SAYING……..Too many John Wayne’s chimed in.

This is so wrong on so many levels I hardly know where to start. To begin with she doesn't need a ccw license in AZ and most states do allow for the use of deadly force for protection of others from lethal or extreme injury. ie: You don't have to just stand there and watch a young girl get raped. I don't know who you think you are that you can judge whether or not the threat was great enough for you to approve of her actions. How would a LEO know if anyone isn't an accomplice with a drawn gun in a situation that YOU would approve of? You weren't there, you don't know what all the particulars were so please button it. In fairness I must accept some of the blame for all this contention for saying anything at all about the COP thing. I should have known better and just left that part out. It is completely irrelevant. Wifey is waiting for approval to join the forum and I'm sure she can shed more light on the cop thing.

 

[Firefighterchen]

LOve all these responses stating what should have been said. Curious. How many of you practice not only your draw and shooting techniques, but your responses as well.

Unless you have walked the walk, give it a rest.

Lady did da** good job. I would bet money the person she said that too has no memory of the actual words spoken.

So you would answer in the affirmative if someone asked you if you were a cop? If you are that rattled that you don't understand that you are not, then I really wonder if you need to carry.

Granted, it was a scary situation but to answer she was a cop, no that is not a rehearsed response, or a rational one, and could have created some serious legal issues if the person asking were a LEO.

The amount of times you question someone's need to carry, makes me wonder if you shouldn't carry as well.

If someone doesn't care enough to defend their life, how can someone else do so for them? My firearm is for my life and my family's life. Period.

So, you're saying that if you pulled into a shopping center and saw a 6'4" 280 lb man choking the life out of a 5' 85 lb woman on the sidewalk and you were armed you would not intervene but simply let him kill her. What kind of a human being are you?

That's what happened to my friend in 1993. He was on his way home from the shooting range with his Ruger Super Blackhawk 44 mag. He pulled in to get a Coke and saw the above scenario playing out & several people watching but doing nothing. He yelled at the guy to stop several times but he ignored him. The woman had already lost conciousness when he fired one time striking the perp once in the head. Paramedics arrived and cpr revived the woman. Fire station was only 5 blocks away or she probably wouldn't have made it.ME pronounced the perp drt.

Police took my friend in & kept his gun for evidence. He was not charged. The Grand Jury no billed him at the request of the DA.

Here's another one. A man and his 12 yo son were returning from hunting when they saw a state trooper and a man fighting on the side of the road near San Angelo, Tx. Just as they passed the man got the trooper's gun from his holster & shot him. The man stopped several yards down the road got his 7-08 hunting rifle from the rack and shot the bg. The trooper lived & returned to duty. The bg, who was an escaped inmate, driving a stolen car was drt.

Texas Rangers would not release the name of the hunter or his son for his own privacy & protection. The TX Highway Patrol honored the man at a banquet in San Angelo & offerred him a job as a trooper. He declined the job but he did accept a fully engraved S&W Model 28 Highway Patrolman 4" 357.

In all your situations, had the victim chosen to not be a victim to begin with they wouldn't be dying.

If you feel omnipotent, good for you. Do I know the whole story? Definitely not. What if said female "victim" from your first science fiction story had a knife and was trying to murder her husband for taking the kids and I negligently killed the husband defending himself?

What if I intervened in any of those situations and I died? Who is going to take care of my wife and family? What kind of human are you to think my family doesn't deserve a husband or father?

As I said, if they don't care enough to defend themselves, I won't lose any sleep not caring about defending them either. They can rely on the police, I'll rely on myself, just like the op's wife.

 

[Icemanii]

So you would answer in the affirmative if someone asked you if you were a cop? If you are that rattled that you don't understand that you are not, then I really wonder if you need to carry.

Granted, it was a scary situation but to answer she was a cop, no that is not a rehearsed response, or a rational one, and could have created some serious legal issues if the person asking were a LEO.

If the person asking was a LEO, they would have already made their move. And I still say her answer was fine, it shut off any need for more conversation with the other person. Again I believe if you were to ask the other person what the answer was, they would not remember the exact wording. And she did NOT state she was a cop.

But hey, a crazy person whom you think may be a danger is around, by all means, play 20 questions with the person next to you rather than make sure you are protected and safe.





(And so XD40scinNC doesn't get confused, my comment earlier about being an instructor does NOT imply that I am a LEO, LEO trainer, Firearms trainer, or potty trainer to the stars. I am an instructor in another field entirely, but work with current LEO's from various agencies who are also instructors. )

 

[jcreek]

Not what I would have done but whatever works for you as long as you're willing to face the consequences. Cussing and yelling at staff wouldn't come close to flying as a justifiable reason to draw your weapon in several states. I worked in retail for only 2 years and if I had a nickel for every customer got out of control and started cussing...
As far as staying out of sight and just monitoring the situation though good on her. I think her witty cop response probably wasn't the smartest idea but not a huge deal either. If something had gone down and that lady gave a media interview afterwards saying your wife said she was a cop, the police probably wouldn't be too happy and it'd be more of a bureaucratic pain in the ass than anything during the follow up investigation.

 

[leadsender]

I have no problem with people stepping up or into a situation when needed. However, were was the imminent danger to one self or others. Someone coming in screaming profanity and issuing orders to the staff is crazy but, was there a need for the wife to step up or into that situation. You stated that you did not know if the person was armed. Let LEO do what they do.

 

[cluznar]

:triniti: Look, we all know the proper thing she should have done. Tell her Gomer! Well, she should have ran up to the bad guy yelling citizen's arrest, citizen's arrest, that's what she should have done Andy. But gee Andy that's a powerful gun she has Andy, I'm glad it didn't go off.

So she reacted to a situation, handled the gun properly, but should not have said she is a cop now. She would have fit well in a Hollywood movie with her answer. Go home everyone, no one was hurt, she put her gun away and police took over. Had the guy started shooting, she most likely would have took him down.

:dance3:

 

[Totidem Verbis]

The problem here wouldn't have been the Police if she actually had to fire at the idiot, its what a ahole of a Prosecutor would have done once they found out her response to "Are you a cop." Is it defensible? Yes of course with the right Defense lawyer.

Remember perception is nine tenth of the law. Why would she draw her weapon out if she was "some distance" away from the threat? She could have easily said, "No, I'm not" in lieu of "I am now". Did this person threaten her personally? Did she see a weapon? How tall was the person, what kind of clothes, race, eye color, etc, etc.

Lawyers do the same thing we're doing, take apart the situation to Argue whether someone did something any reasonable person would have done.

Just remember to minimize the impact of your own actions being used against you.

 

[Lowjiber]

Weapon at the ready; cover; and concealment...Perfect!

Bravo Zulu to her!

 

[Firefighterchen]

I have no problem with people stepping up or into a situation when needed. However, were was the imminent danger to one self or others. Someone coming in screaming profanity and issuing orders to the staff is crazy but, was there a need for the wife to step up or into that situation. You stated that you did not know if the person was armed. Let LEO do what they do.

Did she step up or into the situation? Or did she go into condition red and hide?

 

[Riverkilt]

Lordy Lordy....daring to post on this forum is like a Marine stepping into the open to draw sniper fire....an amazing broadside of what ifs and interpretations based on a plain English OP. What is it with the need to tear down people instead of give a well deserved "Atta girl!" Anyone who can't understand the meaning of "I am now" in that situation can't see the grit in that remark.

I think arrest is pretty much common law and the same in all states. When I was LEO in Oregon and North Carolina both trainings advised that the arrest by a police officer was identical to a citizen's arrest. Arrest is arrest. I was taught in both trainings that the only difference between police and civilians was the right to go heavily armed and the right to serve warrants. But that was then, and that was there so I'm sure others have different mileage....

 

[BeerGunner]

This!

Not what I would have done but whatever works for you as long as you're willing to face the consequences. Cussing and yelling at staff wouldn't come close to flying as a justifiable reason to draw your weapon in several states. I worked in retail for only 2 years and if I had a nickel for every customer got out of control and started cussing...
As far as staying out of sight and just monitoring the situation though good on her. I think her witty cop response probably wasn't the smartest idea but not a huge deal either. If something had gone down and that lady gave a media interview afterwards saying your wife said she was a cop, the police probably wouldn't be too happy and it'd be more of a bureaucratic pain in the ass than anything during the follow up investigation.

I don't know the laws in AZ but where I live you cannot pull your gun unless your life or someone's nearby is in immediate danger. I'm not sure if we are not hearing the whole story as to what kind of threat this individual posed but in my state, if she was caught pulling her gun in that situation (without a deadly threat) she would be arrested and never be able to concealed carry again.

 

[BC1]

Wife was shopping in a local Walmart earlier today when a crazy guy came in screaming profanity and issuing orders to the staff. Not sure if he was armed. Somebody said, "call 911" at which time my wife, who was some distance from the action, drew her Ruger .40 from her IWB and kept it pointed downward in a ready stance concealed behind a structure. A woman next to here whispered, "are you a cop"? Which she replied, "I am now". The cops came and subdued the guy and elliminated the threat so she simply reholstered and checked out. She was a nervous wreck but she acted properly and confidently. SHE DONE GOOD!! Bravo Zulu

Now as an instructor you know this was wrong, right? This person threatened no harm to anyone, let alone your wife. The story, as you write it, contains no threat. Acting strange and screaming orders to the staff is not a threat. This story, if true, violates everything a certified instructor would teach in PP. You don't introduce a gun without a threat. If someone draws a gun whenever some wingnut screams and carries-on we'd be drawing guns all over the place.

 

[BC1]

What is it with the need to tear down people instead of give a well deserved "Atta girl!" Anyone who can't understand the meaning of "I am now" in that situation can't see the grit in that remark.

Because an "atta girl" is not deserved. Her actions in drawing a gun in that situation border on criminal.

 

[BC1]

That's what a LAW abiding citizen can and should do! She did everything right...concealed herself, and took aim at the criminal...PERFECT, nobody got hurt, yet she was ready! Great job! YOU make us CHL's holders proud. That's what it's all about...defending innocent people and stopping the bad guys! You're awesome!

She did everything wrong. What's wrong with you people. Get some proper training.
.
What prevented her from retreating to the other end of the store where she could exit via the other door? Very bad.

 

[CharlesMorrison]

Time to open a NEW can of worms here.
There are a great many factors that are unknown to us as we where not there.

Take into account she is a woman. Not calling here weak, just that she's a lady.
Most women tend to be smaller and less powerful than a male counter part.
How close was the danger? Another total unknown (to a degree).
Was this mans behavior like "homeless man crazy"? Was it like "bath salts crazy"? Another unknown.
We all know that you don't need a gun to kill another human. Hands and feet can do the job with enough motivation.
I think a lot of the replies are from a mans point of view as to what constitutes a danger.
Why were there calls to dial 911 if this was not perceived as a danger to the staff?
I have worked retail for the last six years as well and I recall and incident that caused quite a bit of fear among the staff.
Police had to be called on that occasion.

I don't know what this poor woman went through above and beyond the short story posted by the OP. I can only assume that it was enough of a threat to draw her weapon.
If it was anything like my incident, I can understand her fear. Things in a situation like hers can go from bad to very bad real quick.


Sent from behind enemy lines.