Why the 12ga?

[walt629]

There have been a lot of conversations and threads about the 12ga as a home defense weapon. Why the 12ga?

When we were making this same decision we spoke to a few people that knew a lot more about the realities of home defense than we did at the time. Something that stuck with me was a statement about who it would be using the 12ga when the time came.

In our lives, my wife is home more than I am, so the adviser suggested the decision should be my wife's and not necessarily mine. Dumbfounding but too true. Her decision was to go with a Lady Winchester in 16ga. She thought it to be a better handling weapon than any of the 12ga's she handled.

I have to admit it is a sweet handling little gun. Short by most 12ga standards, shorter cycle stroke, not as much kick but almost as much 'coverage' especially at the close ranges that a home defense weapon would be deployed.

So... why a 12ga?

 

[Keykutter]

Bigger is better?

Why would anyone want a S&W .500?

Beats me.

12ga is more powerful than 16ga but when your wife shoots a 12ga and it knocks her on her arse, what good is a 12ga unless she hits home on the first shot?

KK

 

[Deserteagle]

I like 12 gauge because it utterly destroys anything it hits, at close range that is. Another good thing about 12 gauge is that it is much easier to find a self defense style shotgun in 12 gauge than it is 16 or 20 or some other random gauge.

 

[JJW]

I agree. Unless your home is as big as an auditorium, a .410 shotgun, with the right ammo, of course, can do just as much damage and is "gentler" on the shooter, allowing better second shot recovery if necessary.

 

[routereyes]

No need for shottie

I like to carry a flashlight on one hand and Taurus Judge on the other. It is more flexible and the defense ammo for it is grand. I don't like pointing my gun at anything a gun-mounted light finds in case of a false alarm.

 

[JohnLM]

I have a 12g for home defense. I have it because I believe it will stop all B.S before it escalate!

 

[jrtyson72]

.45 Springfield

I prefer my .45, 13+1 plus two full mags in my underwear waistband is my prefrence. My house's layout isn't really shotgun friendy, plus I'd rather putty holes than replace large squares of sheet rock. Just my own prefrence.

 

[walt629]

I agree. Unless your home is as big as an auditorium, a .410 shotgun, with the right ammo, of course, can do just as much damage and is "gentler" on the shooter, allowing better second shot recovery if necessary.

We got the 16ga long before the Judge came out but my wife has been looking at one for the bed side. She's warming up to the .410 capability of the Judge and the extra availability of a .45 long Colt. Crazy woman!

 

[walt629]

I prefer my .45, 13+1 plus two full mags in my underwear waistband is my prefrence. My house's layout isn't really shotgun friendy, plus I'd rather putty holes than replace large squares of sheet rock. Just my own prefrence.

Hehe... we HAD that conversation. She looked at me in that 'special' sort of way and told me how good I am with dry wall. Can't argue with 'the look'! :biggrin: But my preference is my XD40.

 

[Hoganbeg]

12-gauge has more pellets of a given caliber. 16 gauge is fine but ammo can be hard to find and pricey. Ayoob recommends nothing lower than 20 gauge as a reasonable compromise.

 

[santa]

I agree. Unless your home is as big as an auditorium, a .410 shotgun, with the right ammo, of course, can do just as much damage and is "gentler" on the shooter, allowing better second shot recovery if necessary.

I agree 100%. Most people think bigger is better. WRONG!. Most people are not aware of the different kinds of 410 ammo available. There is of course lots of 'birdshot', 00 buckshot, 000buckshot, slugs and a round Winchester calls 'Stop The Threat' which fires 3 disks and 12 BBs. A 3 inch round fires 5 000 buck projectiles with each projectile having the enercy of a standard 38 special, meaning one round is the equivilent of 5 rounds of standard 38 special. This is over 1000 pounds of muzzle energy, which is more than a 41 magnum. A 410 slug has 600-800 pounds of muzzle energy, more than a 357 magnum. To be sure a 410 is not a 300 yard weapon. But under 100 yards it can be deadly and considering home defence distances it is more than up to the task. The penetration of 12 gauge and 410 is the same. To those that make fun of the 410 I ask you to think of the damage being hit with 3-4-5 000 buckshot will do. Also a 12 gauge does have more recoil than a 410 bore which meams more recovery time between shots with a 12 gauge vs a 410 bore. There are many of us including myself that due to health reasons cannot any longer tolerate the recoil of a 12 gauge. New 410 ammo does cost more than 12 gauge but I now reload and 410 now costs less than 12 gauge reloads. I own a Mossberg model 500 pump action in 410 and it is one of the best guns Ive ever owned. A shotgun has other advantages. One being it is not as heavily regulated as handguns, usually requiring no permits at least in the USA. Another advantage is that unlike a round fired from some handguns the shot fired from a shotgun is less likely to penetrate multiple walls and thereby decreasing the risk to nearby residents. Im not getting rid of my handguns, but my 410 does have a place.

 

[gunnerbob]

We have 12ga's b/c it's the most popular load for shotguns, so ammo is wildly abundant and cheap.

However, I do not advise my wife to make that her first choice for defense!!! She's 5' 2" and 110lbs!!!

She is trained to grab her Taurus Ultrlite .38 Special loaded with 125gr SJHP... while(if I'm home) I'm grabing my S&W M&P9c loaded with 127gr +P JHPs and dialing 911!

Now, with that said... there are "low recoil" 12ga defense loads out there. It's been suggested that inside the home, using #7-8 birdshot within 10ft is extremely effective! With minimal over-penetration. I have tested this against a pumpkin(terrible representation I know) and it was devistating!

 

[hyundailarry]

One thought

Sure most situations a .410 will do it. But if they are breaking into your house with you in there then they have decided you do not scare them which means they are not of sound mind. Insane or cracked up who knows or cares. I want as much force as can get or I should use a stun gun. I do not care how cracked up someone is a deer slug from a 12ga or oobuck he will not be standing.no way no how. Ok my shoulder will hurt or maybe my wifes coller bone is broken but we will live. No slack no games that was decided when they opened my door.

 

[Keykutter]

Ok my shoulder will hurt or maybe my wifes coller bone is broken but we will live.

Yeah! I can see me giving my wife something that will break her collar bone. The statement about 'but we live'?....She might but she'd kill me.

KK

 

[Caribou]

If Ayoob says 20 gauge is a minimum then that is fine I trust his judgement. In fact you should read his book "In the Gravest Extreme".Some people are just fine with a .410 revolver though I want something with a little more power. Ultimately your wife needs to have something she feels comfortable with. She will be under enough stress if the time comes without adding a gun she fears into the equation. You also need to pick your own gun, you would probably be as happy with her picking your gun as she would be with you picking hers.

If her problem is the recoil then look at getting a recoil reducing stock. Also an 18" to 20" barrel so that it is easier to use inside.

You will need to practice so take measurements inside your home then shoot to see the spread of your shot at those distances. I think you will be surprised at how small the spread is. You each need a set of ear muffs for practice. I suggest you get the electronic type. Leave these next to the shotgun. They will enhance your hearing until you shoot then they will protect it.

If you have settled on a shotgun (an excellent choice) then for each of you a Self Defense Shotgun class is in order. A Concealed Carry class might be in order as well, as this will give you a lot of information on the legal issues. Get the permit or don't you will still benefit from the information.

As your experience grows your ideas on which gun is best may also change. This does not mean that the choice you make now is wrong. If you buy a pick up it doesn't mean you were wrong when you purchased a sedan, your needs or wants change over time. Sell the sedan to buy the truck or keep it because they both are better in different situations.

 

[santa]

Sure most situations a .410 will do it. But if they are breaking into your house with you in there then they have decided you do not scare them which means they are not of sound mind. Insane or cracked up who knows or cares. I want as much force as can get or I should use a stun gun. I do not care how cracked up someone is a deer slug from a 12ga or oobuck he will not be standing.no way no how. Ok my shoulder will hurt or maybe my wifes coller bone is broken but we will live. No slack no games that was decided when they opened my door.

You say 00 buck fired from a 12 gauge is superior to 00 buck fired from a 410? 00 or 000 buckshot is the same thing no matter if fired from a 12 gauge or a 410 bore. The target penetration is the same with a 12 gauge as it is with a 410 bore. You really think that a BG breaking in your house will only be scared when being hit with 000 buck fired from a 410 bore? He will be more likely DEAD than scared. Oh and IF your wife should fire a 12 gauge AND her collar bone is broke she would be incapable of firing a second shot if she missed and a second shot is needed. A 410 and its light recoil allows for very rapid accurate multiple shots unlike a 12 gauge. By the way I have owned several 12 gauge shotguns.

 

[kelcarry]

You come into my locked bedroom at night I am going to make damn sure to a 100% certainty that wyou will not leave the same way. My wife has no interest in any of this--period/end of story--if she did, I can see a 20 or a 410. My only concerns with the 12g have nothing to do with whoever is at the wrong end--my only concerns will be replacing the door jam and the carpet and I know that is all I will be concerned with if such a situation should arise. If there is a bump in the night in my home, the other rooms that are empty of family only have replaceable, insured stuff and I have no intention of trying to fight over them. I will call 911, activate remote car alarm for noise and lights if LEO should arrive in time but I will be in my locked and secured bedroom and g-d help the person who decides to find out what is behind door #1.

 

[NCIC105]

Cause they don't make a 10 gauge

 

[BravoSierra2012]

Cause they don't make a 10 gauge

Amen! And because the sound of racking that 12GA and the brightness of the surefire combat light on the forearm would make and normal intruder piss his pants. And of course the shorter slugs that can be loaded and mine will hold 12+1. Shoot what you choose, feel comfortable with it, just stay alive.

 

[agrippakc]

At 21 feet, a long distance for the insides of houses in my area, 00 buck from mine makes a 5" spread. Its like,shooting somebody with a burst from a small pistol caliber sub machine gun. Does't have the penetration of a rifle and does the job in the dark of night.