Why Open Carry?


ntrngr

New member
I've been told over and over that OC is bad. My father, who has had more guns in his hand than any man should have the privilege to have, says it makes people nervous. My Sheriff friend (Iron Mike) says you don't want BG knowing you have a gun. My wife says she's worried about someone taking my gun and possibly using it against me or her.

...and you know what? I agree with all of them and disagree with them all at the same time. I OC when I feel its appropriate and I CC when I feel like it.

Here is my 2c worth(Actually, its about 25c worth, but whos counting?):

Dad says it makes people nervous: This is the main reason I OC. People need to see guns in town, in the stores, on peoples' hips, etc instead of JUST in the hands of BGs and police. Thats why they are nervous! HE'S GOT A GUN!!! should be a call to bring people together to see what he's carrying and not a statement of fear. If people see other people as LRAs (Law Reinforcement Agents) instead of BGs the anti-gun ignorance our society is virtually paralyzed with will go away. I call it softening up the Sheeple. (I don't use sheeple with disrespect. I'm just not in denial. Sheeple are.)

Iron Mike says its a tactical disadvantage: True, however, is it really? If a guy is casing a place and see armed LRAs walking around, he'll go on down the street. Non-armed robbery people will steer way clear of anyone with a gun. We overpower them 1000s to 1 and they want the money not a hole in their whatever. Besides, if you're walking around in a store and a couple armed thugs bust in, what if you're right handed and you're left side is facing them. They don't know. An reasonably trained guy with an OC pistol can beat a trained guy with a CC pistol just about any day of the week. With OC you're already half way there. But, what if you're a couple isle away? Then it doesn't really matter, does it? So, that argument is already about 75% dead. I think the only time an OCer would be in worse shape than a CCer is in some kind of bank heist when you're standing in line and they don't care about anything but the money. Again, this is a TV stereotype. I don't know how true it is.

Teenuh says: The BG might take the gun from you if he sees you have it and shoot you with it (or me!).
I'm not sure this is true, because the BG has to do several things.

1. He has to get his hand on my holster. If I OC its at 3 O'clock.
2. I don't care how quick he is, unless he's done my holster before, they're all different. Snap is different. You can't get the holster off of my belt and you can't get the snap undone unless you've practiced it.
3. I'll break your F***ing arm right before I break a few ribs. You might get lucky but you might get an expensive plaster sleeve too.
4. I carry a S&W Mod. 59, double action hammered with crossbolt safety. I carry it with the chamber empty and the crossbolt safety on. You have to flip the safety off and rack one before it will fire. ...sometimes. Other times I carry it chambered, safety on. Other times, I carry it chambered, safety off, hammer on half-cock, double action ready. The point is, he won't know! He might grab it. Me, knowing it won't fire I'll tackle him. Unless he's a reallybig guy he's gonna get hurt. (I fight dirty. I fight to win. Its self-defense, not a boxing match.) The point is you're taking a huge risk unless you've practiced. 99% of crooks don't practice anything except greed and violence.

I seriously doubt that he has the forethought to do this and will shy away.
 

HK4U

New member
The main one I would disagree with is that open carry means the BG will change his mind. If a psyco decides today he will kill as many as he can at the mall down the street, the neighborhood church or elementry school I doubt the fact that he sees me with a gun on my side will change his mind. It will most likely make me his first target though. Just my 2 cents worth.
 

2beararms

New member
Dad's right it makes people nervous ... if it makes a bad guy nervous so much the better, the remainder will get used to it.

Ask Iron Mike why he and the deputies don't therefore conceal??? I've never seen a uniformed cop that is not open carrying.

On the third, I never argue with wives... period.

However retention holsters have come a long way. Level III are hard enough for the carrier to remember how to get the darn gun out.

Here in Florida of course, open carry is not legal, a circumstance I hope they change one of these days. But down here where it is hot, it is really common place for LEO to open carry in street clothes. They are supposed to have the badge next to the gun but many times they just took off a jacket and have the badge in a pocket so they just look like anyone else except with a gun ... and no one notices. If a civilian open carried here in South Florida (if it were legal) most would just assume he is LEO because they have become so adjusted to it.

Its all perception.

BTW - a gun with an empty chamber is called a hammer.
 

hiwall

New member
Another plus for open carry is that in some states you do not need a permit. So in those states everyone should buy a retention holster and open carry.
 

Big Gay Al

New member
The main one I would disagree with is that open carry means the BG will change his mind. If a psyco decides today he will kill as many as he can at the mall down the street, the neighborhood church or elementry school I doubt the fact that he sees me with a gun on my side will change his mind. It will most likely make me his first target though. Just my 2 cents worth.

I'd say there's a bit of a difference between your "typical" BG, and the occasional "psycho." The "typical" BG is much more common, and much more likely to go on down the road, to look for a safer target.
 

ntrngr

New member
The main one I would disagree with is that open carry means the BG will change his mind. If a psyco decides today he will kill as many as he can at the mall down the street, the neighborhood church or elementry school I doubt the fact that he sees me with a gun on my side will change his mind. It will most likely make me his first target though. Just my 2 cents worth.

In your cited specific situation, thats true, however, how many small time shoot 'em ups did it discourage? Like I said, a moderatly trained individual is way faster with an OC holster than one where you gotta dig your piece out of an IWB. I'm not saying you're wrong, you are correct, tactically it would seem you at more of a disadvantage. But, you'll have to be right there in front where the phsyco comes in. LIkely, you'll instantly zip behind an isle and he'll never know you're even there because, since you are OCing, you're way more aware than if you're CCing. (May not be true either.)

Generally speaking, OC is a tactical disadvantage. Overall, it think its the smart way to go.

Basically, what I'm saying is if you're in the psycho block of town, tuck it!

:biggrin:
 
Here in New Hampshire we have a Huge open carry movement going on. We have both Concealed carry laws and open carry laws so people can do both. But a huge group of people do open carry all over the state. Some even go to town's/cite's around the state and test the water to see how open the town is to open carrying. 97% of the time the only people who call it in are people from out of state(NY,MA) and other anti gun states. They see the gun ans flip out and think we must be doing something wrong and they want us arrested on the spot. My feeling is if you don't like it stay the hell out of our state. For the most part the cops up here are great about it they show up when called because they have to. We did have a problem with a cop Cussing out a open carrier and yelling at him last week. I have a UBG owb holster but i have as of yet to start carrying dew to money matters ( lol i still have to buy a gun). But I'm also going to get a IWB holster when the time comes. We do have a guy who open carry's a Ar-pistol around the state lol. Here is the Video of the cop being a dick head for no reason at all.

YouTube - NH Cop acts belligerent and uses profanity to Law-Abiding Citizen for open carrying.
 

Big Gay Al

New member
4. I carry a S&W Mod. 59, double action hammered with crossbolt safety. I carry it with the chamber empty and the crossbolt safety on. You have to flip the safety off and rack one before it will fire. ...sometimes. Other times I carry it chambered, safety on. Other times, I carry it chambered, safety off, hammer on half-cock, double action ready. The point is, he won't know! He might grab it. Me, knowing it won't fire I'll tackle him. Unless he's a reallybig guy he's gonna get hurt. (I fight dirty. I fight to win. Its self-defense, not a boxing match.) The point is you're taking a huge risk unless you've practiced. 99% of crooks don't practice anything except greed and violence.
I used to have a Model 59, nice pistol. But it is more difficult to get the safety off on that model. Like most DA/SA semi autos, the safety is counter-intuitive. Unlike the Model 1911, where the safety is properly designed.

And unless you practice that move, to the point it becomes 2nd nature, carrying it with an empty chamber, could be a problem all it's own. I've known people who carried like that, and when it really mattered, drew their weapon, and started pulling the trigger. Some actually pushed the safety off, but most never racked the slide.
 

ntrngr

New member
I propose this: For any LEO that violates a right to carry law, they should be ticketed $100 right off of their takehome pay. Then, that $100 then goes to officer education. That would stop this moronic garbage. The word would get around and we'd have LEO instead of Policy Enforcement Thugs.

Here in New Hampshire we have a Huge open carry movement going on. We have both Concealed carry laws and open carry laws so people can do both. But a huge group of people do open carry all over the state. Some even go to town's/cite's around the state and test the water to see how open the town is to open carrying. 97% of the time the only people who call it in are people from out of state(NY,MA) and other anti gun states. They see the gun ans flip out and think we must be doing something wrong and they want us arrested on the spot. My feeling is if you don't like it stay the hell out of our state. For the most part the cops up here are great about it they show up when called because they have to. We did have a problem with a cop Cussing out a open carrier and yelling at him last week. I have a UBG owb holster but i have as of yet to start carrying dew to money matters ( lol i still have to buy a gun). But I'm also going to get a IWB holster when the time comes. We do have a guy who open carry's a Ar-pistol around the state lol. Here is the Video of the cop being a dick head for no reason at all.

YouTube - NH Cop acts belligerent and uses profanity to Law-Abiding Citizen for open carrying.
 
Yeah that sound good but it will never happen lol. This was vary shocking to see as i have never seen a NH police officer talk to someone like that just for open carrying. Keep in mind that No crime had been committed it was just a call about a man with a gun. Instead of acting like a grown up and doing his job. When he came upon a Citizen who knew his rights and would not summit to being bullied around by a officer. The cop started acting like a Fat head and cussing at the guy. For carrying his firearm and spare mags and a flashlight.
 
To the OP: I see your point in why you OC. I guess I will share my view on it.

As much as I am for the 2nd ammendment, I disagree with the OC theory. 100 years ago, it would have been acceptable. But with the liberal media (CNN=Communist News Network) brain washing America's population, OC would make any situation extremely nerve racking. Unarmed citizens would live with an unnecessary fear of anyone carrying a gun. Of course, the fear would probably eventually fade, but it would probably take a VERY long time for the effects of the media to wear off.

If the community as a whole, however, were conditioned and accustomed to seeing guns on people, obviously it would be less of an issue. As for deterring criminals, knowing that people CAN carry CONCEALED weapons should keep them guessing at who is carrying and who isn't. Thus, deterring them from bothering even more people and not risking a crime with people around.

Should OC be illegal? No. But this modern day and age, people who have handguns should conceal them from the general public out of courtesy.
 

Big Gay Al

New member
To the OP: I see your point in why you OC. I guess I will share my view on it.

As much as I am for the 2nd ammendment, I disagree with the OC theory. 100 years ago, it would have been acceptable. But with the liberal media (CNN=Communist News Network) brain washing America's population, OC would make any situation extremely nerve racking. Unarmed citizens would live with an unnecessary fear of anyone carrying a gun. Of course, the fear would probably eventually fade, but it would probably take a VERY long time for the effects of the media to wear off.

If the community as a whole, however, were conditioned and accustomed to seeing guns on people, obviously it would be less of an issue. As for deterring criminals, knowing that people CAN carry CONCEALED weapons should keep them guessing at who is carrying and who isn't. Thus, deterring them from bothering even more people and not risking a crime with people around.

Should OC be illegal? No. But this modern day and age, people who have handguns should conceal them from the general public out of courtesy.

Courtesy works both ways, and concealed carry does have some deterrent, but not nearly as much as OC. And OC is still acceptable in many (ok, a few) areas of the USA. The American Southwest (Except Texas) and some other areas.

And, thanks to new efforts, it is becoming more acceptable in previously non-acceptable areas. And in general, my observation has been that the vast public at large doesn't even notice, for the most part. So far, I've gotten way more positive remarks, than negative. So I think I'll keep OCing, when practical.
 

streamcatcher

New member
Open carry just won't work in many parts of the country... it does make people nervous, and is likely to cause more trouble than it is worth.

Now then, I am from the Pacific Northwest, and there are times/places when OC is appropriate here...but that is largely due to a historical connection with folks walking around heeled. Even when it's the right time and place, the east-coast transplants still get scared and call the cops from time to time...

When is it appropriate? I OC in two situations only: 1) on my ranch. When I'm on horseback or walking on my land, I OC. It's unlikely that I will see anyone, but if I do, they don't think anything of it...I'm a guy, on a ranch, 25 miles from the nearest town...of course I have a gun.
(side bar: Once when I parked along side the road, wathcing the sunset, the loacl sherriff drove by...we chatted a bit, then when we was leaving, he ask me if I had a gun in my truck...I said "yes", he said, "good man...just making sure." I can't imagine that conversation taking place when I lived in Boston!)
The other time is when I am by myself fishing on rivers near the Portland metro area-- the rules are different re: gun possession when one is "actively engaged in or in route to hunting or fishing" (which is one reason everyone I know carries fishing gear with them...but I digress) -- so, if I'm standing on my own along side the Clackamas river, a place where no one is going to sneak up on me, I OC -- it's a good advertisement that I'm not an easy target. I've even met some friends because of my pistol--one guy I fish with to this day came up, turned to his buddy, and said, "I'm stickin' by the guy who came prepared..."
 

G50AE

Active member
At-will employment

I propose this: For any LEO that violates a right to carry law, they should be ticketed $100 right off of their takehome pay. Then, that $100 then goes to officer education. That would stop this moronic garbage. The word would get around and we'd have LEO instead of Policy Enforcement Thugs.

Better idea, localities should flat out refuse to deal with police unions and only hire officer on an at-will basis!!!

If you receive bad service at a hotel or restaurant, you complain to the manager or corperate office and the matter gets addressed. The complaint process becomes a way to improve the quality of future service. If the same people receive the same complaints over and over again, those people end up out of a job. BUT NOT IN LAW ENFORCEMENT. :angry:

Complain about the conduct of a LEO. What typically happens? The complain is handled by another LEO who is a member of the same police union and thus has an incentive not to do anything. How many citizen complaints does it take to finally get a LEO fired? 50? 100? Or does the officer literally have to kill to get fired?

A mayor, governor, city administrator, county commisioner, selectman or other executive leader as the case may be should have the power to terminate the employment of any law enforcement officer in the area of his/her executive jurisdiction at anytime for any reason. In addition, a city council, county council, or similar legislative body should be able to terminate the employment of a law enforcement office by majority vote. This a check that most local governments severly need. Stop letting police unions determine what is and is not grounds for termination of a LEO.
 

hardballer

New member
I open carry because there is no other option available. Tomorrow I am going to join a protest/demonstration in Sussex WI.

This is why:
Here is what happened:

On Monday Feb. 15th, one of our members, "Joseph" was doing something he has done on many occasions. That is sitting down for lunch at China-Wok in Sussex, WI while open-carrying as law-abiding citizens do in Wisconsin. The only difference on this day was a Wisconsin State Trooper; "Trooper Kneisler" was in the parking lot. On this day, this particular Trooper was on a mission to place his personal desires above his professional responsibilities. It appears to us at Wisconsin Carry that Trooper Kneisler was determined to oust Joseph from the restaurant before he had any knowledge of the stores policy or even that the store-owners had any desire for his intervention. Don't take our word for it. When Joseph saw Trooper Kneisler heading into the restaurant, he pulled out his recording device (standard accessory for many of us who want to make sure we have documentation in the event of unlawful conduct by law-enforcement) and video-taped the encounter:
Watch it on You-Tube here

Unfortunately this video is not the end of the story. Late Monday night 3 Waukesha County Sheriffs Deputies visited Joseph at his home. Indications from the deputies was that Trooper Kneisler had continued his persecution of Joseph by contacting them and untruthfully suggesting Joseph was trying to impersonate a police officer. Reasons given included that he was "open-carrying" and that he has CB Radio antennae on his vehicle (a Hyundai Elantra)?

As would be expected, the deputies determined State Trooper Kneisler's complaint was unfounded and left.

This impacts all of us everywhere. If you are interested, Time and date is set:

Date: Sunday February 21st

Time: 12:30pm

Location: Meet at Starbucks in Sussex
Starbucks
N65W24950 Main Street
Sussex, WI 53089

Even if we had Concealed Carry, I believe I would open carry anyway. It feels comfortable. There was a time when I conceal carried, I was good with that too. Just like open carry. If all fifty states could get together legitimize open and concealed carry anywhere, that would be great.
 

homerfire232

New Member
I see open carry as a great deterant for the BG's as opposed to CC. If a BG is going to rob the store and sees a person with a gun he most likely will change his mind,good, if he can't see a gun he may just put you into a situation that will cause you to use it, bad. Thats why bad guys don't rob stores when cops are getting their coffee, but I have heard stories of off duty cops being there when a robbery takes place...hence the BG did'nt see a gun.
 

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