Why is it some Instructors let their students fend for themselves?


S

Shooters Haven

New member
Why is it that some of the companies and Instructors feel it is ok to just let their students fend for themselves? How do you just rteach a basic course adn let the students have to make all the decisions after that by themselves?

Many Instructors apparently do not recognize and worse don't seem to care what happens to their students after the basic course is taught. I personally know of 3 companies local to me that don't teach anything further than just the 4 hour Basic course required to attain your NYS Pistol License.

What happens next for the student after the course?
Who helps with the rest of the process?
Does anyone assist with writing letters to the Judges?
What about choosing the first firearm, holster and ammo?
What about assisting with which range to choose?
What about their first shots, not everyone is required to "live fire" qualify?

I could go on and on however I provide all of these services to my students and non-students alike. If I am going to be responsible for their first course don't I have an obligation to make sure their shooting experience is a good one? I feel I do and so do my other Instructors!
 

Instructors Being Lazy

When we train students for Illinois Concealed Carry and NRA Basic Pistol Courses (or any of the many NRA Courses which we offer), we make sure that all questions are answered and then perform the registration process for them for their concealed carry application. Many other companies charge their students for this simple procedure up to $25 - $50 for doing this application. United Safety & Security Solutions, LLC., charge absolutely nothing for performing this procedure. We also advise them and give them numbers for Second Defense, attorneys, and other shooting activities in the area. We look at the entire student's needs - not ours. We do not mind spending the extra time with our students, over and above the 18 hours of training which we provide, in excess of the required 16 hours Illinois requires. We also perform a program called, "Facing Violence In America." We present demonstrations with conventional and unconventional weapons - asps, knives, baseball bats, etc. We do not mind going the extra distance for our people!
 
Shooters Haven said:
Why is it that some of the companies and Instructors feel it is ok to just let their students fend for themselves? How do you just rteach a basic course adn let the students have to make all the decisions after that by themselves?

Many Instructors apparently do not recognize and worse don't seem to care what happens to their students after the basic course is taught. I personally know of 3 companies local to me that don't teach anything further than just the 4 hour Basic course required to attain your NYS Pistol License.

What happens next for the student after the course?
Who helps with the rest of the process?
Does anyone assist with writing letters to the Judges?
What about choosing the first firearm, holster and ammo?
What about assisting with which range to choose?
What about their first shots, not everyone is required to "live fire" qualify?

I could go on and on however I provide all of these services to my students and non-students alike. If I am going to be responsible for their first course don't I have an obligation to make sure their shooting experience is a good one? I feel I do and so do my other Instructors!
Click to expand...

You get what you pay for. If you only paid for a 4 hour basic handgun class than you get exactly that. 1.5 hours on the range and the rest in the classroom. If you want to cover all the subjects you suggested than the class will be longer and cost a lot more money.
 
This is exactly what I am talking about. on one hand here one guy says he feel that they should have help and helps them. This creates trust and a bond to the company and creates a loyality (as it were). The first guy knows that these people are new and need assistance.

The second guy says you get what you pay for. Why? As human beings don't we have an obligation to each other. As shooters don't we need the solidarity to keep us all armed and make sure that the proper methods of training adn shooting are being performed?

I went gun shopping with a client on Monday and he purchased firearms for himself as well as ammo, holsters and a gun safe. While not everyone has this financial freedom, I do this for clients that cannot afford this also. If I want to make surre that these people keep their firearms adn that we as shooters keep our rights i have to "step up"!

When these students take other courses where do you think they go? Where do you think they call first? Who do you think they ask first? I also am offering a "Party Bus" trip to PA. wher I take car of everything except ammo costs and my students get a PA conceal carry, lunch, shooting time on the range and get to bond with other shooters.

Oh and Donald, great job!
 
I can't speak for other instructors, but I can tell you what I do. I teach the 8 hour NRA Basic Pistol Course (or 4 hour First Steps), but then give my students options on next steps. I tell them about the next set of classes that would be valuable and give them options moving forward. There is a point where 1 class has to end and another class begin. As I get continuous training myself that allows me to be a better instructor, students must continue their training as well to be better shooters. I do find some people are more than happy to go out on their own after they've learned the basics. Everyone is different in that regard.
 
I do most of these things for my students. I provide an overview of the license process, a review of the law and FL non-resident application during the basic NRA course. My students are encouraged to contact me later they obtain their license where I bring them to my range and review shooting fundamentals. We don't leave until the student is shooting safely and properly. We provide sample letters for cross registration and various permit amendments. Some students also like a formal NRA qualifier whereby they are awarded an official certificate based on their performance in a course of fire.
.
If you're anywhere near orange County and want some help contact me. I'm willing to review the fundamentals using live fire at my range. Free of charge of course.
 
Just like others, I teach several NRA pistol classes, basic pistol, personal protection in the home, and personal protection outside the home. My most advanced class I teach is a force-on-force class using Simunition FX cartridges (see Simunition Range Program if this is something you want to offer).
 
Shooters Haven said:
As shooters don't we need the solidarity to keep us all armed and make sure that the proper methods of training adn shooting are being performed?
Click to expand...


Yes we do need solidarity. Solidarity to realize that forcing a training class on someone is an infringement on my right to keep and bear arms.

I'm all for training for the person who desires it. I'm all against a federal/state/local mandate to go through some hoop before I'm allowed to exercise a right.

Therefore, when you come on here and say that all instructors should and must offer additional training above and beyond what the state forces its subjects to take before exercising their right, I get a bit indignant. First, the training should not be forced by the state. Second, if forced by the state, no one should say that an instructor who wants to help out those in the state by providing the minimum course required to get the permit, should have to provide more courses.

There are many that feel that these courses are a joke, a hoop to jump through, and a money maker all of which usurps our rights.

I'm all for training, as I mentioned in the other thread you started with the exact same OP. Just don't force it on me.
 
Wolf_fire

You and I are in agreement. I also believe,that a constitional right should not mandate that I have to take a class. I do believe that every one can benefit from training. Just like in the game of golf, some will go through life just playing putt-putt golf (and be happy), others desire to go on and win the masters. We as trainers should be their for our students, and assist them in their goals to be better.

SCarney
 
You nailed it when you said "some" instructors. Most of the instructors I know, including myself, take as much time as needed, up to a point. We all teach the minimum, but many of us add some basic gun laws, self-defense both inside and outside the home, live fire and more. I've also gone with a student to shop for a gun and even lowered my price or bartered rather than turn someone loose into the world with a gun and no training. I don't think I'm better than any other instructor, but as another poster said I can afford to do this.
 
I only teach private classes. I provide assistance in with the CCW application and prep them for the interview. I also set them up for a FL non-res permit. I bring them back to my range after they get their gun to work the fundamentals.
 
how does one set someone up for a FLA cwfl??? you file the app, pay the fees, pass the background check and voila you get a permit. no assistance is necessary
FWIW: FLA issues only one permit, there is no such thing as a non resident permit.
fla issues the same permit to everyone. it may be a matter of semantics but that is the way it is
 
apvbguy said:
how does one set someone up for a FLA cwfl??? you file the app, pay the fees, pass the background check and voila you get a permit. no assistance is necessary
FWIW: FLA issues only one permit, there is no such thing as a non resident permit.
fla issues the same permit to everyone. it may be a matter of semantics but that is the way it is
Click to expand...
Yes its the same permit. Non-residents get treated differently in reciprocity. Some states like PA will only recognize the FL permit if one resides in FL. If your residence is another state they don't recognize the FL permit. Most new students don't know they can have a FL permit so I always include the app.
.
I complete the application, photograph and fingerprinting for them. Outside of FL locations we have to use ink fingerprints.
 
I tell every student whom takes ANY of my classes, I am there for them with any questions they have. I feel I am more than an Instructor but an Ambassador for firearms. My number one priority is the students education, period! I tell them anytime they have a question I am an email or phone call away. I ensure with each course that they have direction on where to go from there. I make myself available to them as much as my main profession allows. Several times I have went and coached them (no extra charge) on working on a skill they learned from a class. One course I teach I tell every student they are welcome to come back and sit in on it for free. I will always answer a question, if I don't have the answer I will find it. At the same time, people need to understand to do some work for themselves and broaden there horizon. Case in point, I had a student ask me if I would teach him a certain skillset. I said, "I will be glad too, and am teaching that in a class, on such a date". He was mad and expected me to do it for free right then. After he calmed down and attended the class he understood and told me so. There is alot to learning a skillset, and to do it safe takes time and effort.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New Threads

Members online

Total: 400 (members: 1, guests: 399)

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
49,543
Messages
611,260
Members
74,964
Latest member
sigsag1

Share this page

Back
Top