Why concealed carry insurance?

[NewlyEnthused]

I realize I might be asking this on the wrong forum, but, I am curious.
I spoke with one long time gun advocate and concealed carry person and his opinion was that for the typical person that carries that insurance was a waste of money.
Another said I would be stupid not to get it.
I know there are a few reputable companies that offer insurance, and I know $20 or so a month is not that much compared to the cost if you are sued,

But is it really necessary? Or only in certain cities, areas, etc?

If I am unfortunate to get into a situation that I need to draw and fire, if I am legit in my decision, am I really in danger of being sued?

 

[Roscoe P Coletrain]

If you pull the trigger, you will be getting a lawyer. Lawyers are not cheap. If your bullets penetrate someone or something other than the bad guy, you will be getting a lawyer. If you can afford insurance then why not get it. My 2 cents.

 

[JCliff]

1. To my knowledge, it’s not “necessary” (required) anywhere.
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2. Sure, insurance is a “waste of money…” until something happens to YOU.
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3. Some homeowner’s policies have liability coverage that may provide some coverage for you in such an event, many will not. Many will not cover the potential liability resultant from a deliberate act, whether that act was lawful or not. Get it in writing from your insurer.
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4. In any risk analysis, you’re evaluating two things: probability of occurrence and potential cost to you (in terms of money, lives, assets, etc.). You then take appropriate steps to mitigate the risks associated with probability of the event or the risks associated with its cost if it occurs, or both. For many people, the probability of being involved in a self-defense shooting is quite low, but the potential cost could be catastrophic. If you can afford the ~$15-30 per month these policies cost I think it’s smart, and not so much to pay for a little additional peace of mind. There are other steps you can take (setting up a trust for example) to shield major assets such as your home from liability suits. To do that right usually requires the services of a competent lawyer, and you will have to have done that prior to such an event occurring.
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5. The answer to your last question is a most emphatic YES. Much worse in some states than in others even if your shooting in self-defense is determined to be lawful/righteous. Expect in many areas the state to attempt a criminal prosecution even in a “cut-and-dried” lawful case. Some states prohibit the perp or perp’s estate from suing you in the event of a lawful shooting, others don’t, and if they don’t they will sue. You should also consider what might happen if you should injure an innocent third party in an otherwise lawful self-defense. So the state decides not to come after you criminally, or you are found innocent of criminal wrongdoing… I guarantee that if you put a bullet in little Suzie next door or at the mall you WILL face a liability lawsuit.
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6. I am not involved in the insurance industry in any way. I recommend that you look into it. Do your own risk analysis. Make smart decisions to mitigate your risks as best you can.

 

[GlennS1956]

I'm trying to figure out what to do about insurance, too. Homeowners insurance won't help if you have to defend yourself away from home. One insurance company will pay up AFTER you're found not guilty. Another will pay up if the committee that decides such things approves your request. Another will pay for everything, but they only have lawyers in Chicago, Oklahoma, Alabama, and Florida. I've got a local lawyer with a good reputation but doesn't have any type of pre-paid plan. The more I research, the less I'm sure of what to do.

 

[Ringo]

The more I research, the less I'm sure of what to do.

Move to Arizona and be sure.

 

[MichaelJC]

Did the guy who shot Trayvon Martin have insurance? (I hope so.)

 

[NewlyEnthused]

Thanks to JCliff and others, I got the Golden plan with the mindset that I have 1 year to get a money back guarantee.
My philosophy is simple. If nothing happens in the next year, I will have had a year to do more research and checking around.
If something does happen, I'm covered and I was right to follow the advice given here.
Either way, it was a win-win decision.

 

[ScottMac]

Check out "Armed Citizens. Legal Defense Network"

They have a good website, Facebook, and all the usual contact paths.

They have assembled a network of lawyers that are familiar with use-of-force cases. They will immediately deposit $10k to your lawyer to begin your defense investigation.

I signed with these folks, I am very happy with their organization. I also offer their literature in my classes.

Aside from being a member, I have no other association with these guys.

 

[BC1]

Not a chance I'm buying another insurance policy. And I've had significant experience with lawyers over my lifetime. I'll pick my own lawyer and pay him rather than have an insurer make me roll the dice with an in-network mouthpiece.
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If you like your legal plan you can keep your lawyer... :jester:

 

[GlennS1956]

About the Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network's "Network Affiliated Attorneys", their website states "A listing of the Network Affiliated Attorneys is made available only to Network members". So I've got to pay $125 to find out there are no Network Affiliated Attorneys in my area? If they had lots of attorneys available, it seems like that would be a main advertising point. And I'm sure the attorneys would like to have the additional free advertising of being listed on the website.

Also, they'll pay your lawyer $10,000 up front, but then they state "Network members are also eligible for additional grants of financial assistance". Eligible for a grant??? Doesn't sound like something you can depend on. For the same money USCCA says it will give you $7,500 up front and up to $125,000 total compensation. It claims that it will "connect you with local, legal representation within 24 hours", but doesn't provide a lawyer list, either. None of these companies seem to be entirely up front with potential members, which makes me question their credibility. The more I research, the more I am inclined to just find a local lawyer that has a good track record on defending people that have been forced to defend themselves against violent criminals.

 

[Banjarmon]

Check this one out.

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/Membership/?id=sds-hpb&sid=hpHeresOne

 

[Corato]

Do you have auto insurance, homeowners insurance, health insurance, an umbrella policy. Insurance is supposed to be a low cost means of protecting against massive exposure potential. Not for normal day to day expense.... but that's another story. Carry insurance can also get you quick access to the attorney. Worth the money in my opinion if you have anything to protect, like your freedom.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Anyone have experience with Second Call? Plans & Pricing | Second Call Defense

 

[bdenison]

I am not an attorney and I am not giving legal advice.

This is a personal decision, but unless everything is very black and white, you will likely be arrested and investigated. Charges may eventually be dropped or it may go to trail, etc., but you will most likely want to contact an attorney to ensure that you are effectively represented, and there are expenses associated with this representation. There are several different companies offering different flavors of policies in this area. If you chose to get this type of coverage, I recommend that you research these companies and polices before making a selection.

 

[Steon]

About the Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network's "Network Affiliated Attorneys", their website states "A listing of the Network Affiliated Attorneys is made available only to Network members". So I've got to pay $125 to find out there are no Network Affiliated Attorneys in my area? If they had lots of attorneys available, it seems like that would be a main advertising point. And I'm sure the attorneys would like to have the additional free advertising of being listed on the website.

Also, they'll pay your lawyer $10,000 up front, but then they state "Network members are also eligible for additional grants of financial assistance". Eligible for a grant??? Doesn't sound like something you can depend on. For the same money USCCA says it will give you $7,500 up front and up to $125,000 total compensation. It claims that it will "connect you with local, legal representation within 24 hours", but doesn't provide a lawyer list, either. None of these companies seem to be entirely up front with potential members, which makes me question their credibility. The more I research, the more I am inclined to just find a local lawyer that has a good track record on defending people that have been forced to defend themselves against violent criminals.

It also says:

Our Network Affiliated Attorneys are gun-friendly lawyers who allow the Network to share their contact information with Network members. We strongly advise all of our Network members to consult with an attorney in their area to be sure they understand use of deadly force law, what to expect from the criminal justice system after self-defense actions, and to obtain contact information for an attorney they can call in the aftermath of self defense.

Network members often express their appreciation for the comfort of setting up an initial consultation with a Network Affiliated Attorney, knowing that they will be speaking with a fellow gun owner who is sympathetic to their concerns and who can offer guidance that will help keep the armed citizen out of problems. The Network member may also choose to call on the Affiliated Attorney with whom they have consulted as a "first responder" after a self-defense incident to counsel the member during questioning and give guidance on other issues during the aftermath of acting in self defense. Network members may view a list of Network Affiliated Attorneys in their area or in areas to which they will be traveling after logging in using codes provided when they joined the Network.
http://armedcitizensnetwork.org/affiliates

What I get out of this is that you can use ANY (as in meaning YOUR) attorney. I've sent them an E-Mail to confirm this. As a SPECIAL SERVICE they are offering a list of attorneys they believe to be "sympathetic" to our needs and will therefore do their best to aid us beyond a professional legal requirement, but as a 2A aid to a fellow armed citizen. This might be of special aid for those of us that travel.

What happens if I'm traveling with the family from say, Indiana, to Florida? When we stop in Tennessee something happens and I have to defend us. Heck, My normal Lawyer is back in NW Indiana.... Might be nice to find a Lawyer sympathetic to gun rights just a little closer. Good thing I researched before my trip and have a list of lawyers along the states I was driving.... Now just to find the closest one.

And I looked up a few other places that were offering Insurance. As another poster mentioned, They can't help during a criminal case, but Armed Citizens isn't Insurance. They say so right on their website. I don't know how they get around being insurance, but they did and that's good enough for me.

I never considered this issue before a week ago. Then like the OP it just popped in my head that it might be a good idea and I started looking into lawyers in my area that might be able to handle such issues. I found two firms but haven't contacted either of them yet because, low and behold, I don't know how I would even begin to address funding. I'm low on finances right now (Who isn't right?) and expect to be caught up in about 2 months. But then I figured to talk with one and see about setting something up. Well, now I can set this up, talk with them and let them know I have this set up if something should happen... Win Win.

Or... If one of those Affiliated Lawyers are in my area, Why shouldn't I go with one of them instead? After all, it's not like I know any of the lawyers in my area anyways yet...

 

[ScottMac]

It also says:


What I get out of this is that you can use ANY (as in meaning YOUR) attorney. I've sent them an E-Mail to confirm this. As a SPECIAL SERVICE they are offering a list of attorneys they believe to be "sympathetic" to our needs and will therefore do their best to aid us beyond a professional legal requirement, but as a 2A aid to a fellow armed citizen. This might be of special aid for those of us that travel.

What happens if I'm traveling with the family from say, Indiana, to Florida? When we stop in Tennessee something happens and I have to defend us. Heck, My normal Lawyer is back in NW Indiana.... Might be nice to find a Lawyer sympathetic to gun rights just a little closer. Good thing I researched before my trip and have a list of lawyers along the states I was driving.... Now just to find the closest one.

And I looked up a few other places that were offering Insurance. As another poster mentioned, They can't help during a criminal case, but Armed Citizens isn't Insurance. They say so right on their website. I don't know how they get around being insurance, but they did and that's good enough for me.

I never considered this issue before a week ago. Then like the OP it just popped in my head that it might be a good idea and I started looking into lawyers in my area that might be able to handle such issues. I found two firms but haven't contacted either of them yet because, low and behold, I don't know how I would even begin to address funding. I'm low on finances right now (Who isn't right?) and expect to be caught up in about 2 months. But then I figured to talk with one and see about setting something up. Well, now I can set this up, talk with them and let them know I have this set up if something should happen... Win Win.

Or... If one of those Affiliated Lawyers are in my area, Why shouldn't I go with one of them instead? After all, it's not like I know any of the lawyers in my area anyways yet...

Many Defense attorneys will do a "first hour free" consultation to get your information, get an overview of your concerns, and establish a relationship for future protected communications.
Call and ask, of course ... you'd need to set up an appointment anyway. Have a date & time in mind before you call.

 

[BC1]

If you pull the trigger, you will be getting a lawyer. Lawyers are not cheap. If your bullets penetrate someone or something other than the bad guy, you will be getting a lawyer. If you can afford insurance then why not get it. My 2 cents.

While I agree in principal you don't have any control over who represents you. Its not enough to have a lawyer. You need a lawyer with a proven track record in prosecution and defense of gun crimes. I've hired a lot of lawyers in my time and found very few actually do a thorough job.
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Remember this about insurance companies... they're the mafia of the millennium. They're not in the people business, they're in the denial business. There's no profit in paying. The entire insurance industry is predicated on not paying claims. If they had to pay every claim we couldn't afford the coverage. Sort of like a pyramid scheme. Thus the denial is the "smart bomb" of cost containment. Think about the 43,000 people per day in America that are denied a medically necessary health service by their plan (1,2). Think about the 10,000 people per day in America who lose their doctor because of a change in their health plan (1). Think about the number of people who filed bankruptcy over a medical bill when the health plan won't pay (2). Think of how often your auto policy refuses to cover an injury. Think about subrogation and the perils of those with injury claims and private investigators sneaking around. Trust nothing to an insurance company.
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Sources:
1 - The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation
2 - Elizabeth Warren (D, MA), Harvard Law, published 1999 Norton's Bankruptcy Advisor.

 

[Steon]

I am looking into procuring your services in the near future after I get a couple of bills straightened out by end of June, but the topic came up in the USA Carry Forums and it just makes sense to make sure legal funds are available.

I wish to confirm that we are not limited to just the Affiliated Lawyers but are free to use any Lawyer.

Thank you.

Thank you for your interest in becoming part of the Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, and for your question.

Yes, your understanding is correct. While the Network works to affiliate with gun-friendly attorneys, we do that as a way to help members who struggle to establish a relationship with an attorney before needing legal services. We have never required members to use an Affiliated Attorney in order to receive the Network's financial assistance after self defense.

In our six years of operation, the Network has assisted six members by providing the initial fee deposit to their attorney. Thinking back, I believe that two of those members did use non-affiliated attorneys. We sent the funding to that attorney as quickly as the member identified who would be representing them. We would never come between the member and his or her attorney. That wouldn't be right!

Gila Hayes
Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, Inc.
Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, Inc.
Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, Inc.
360-978-5200

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[NavyLCDR]

My question is..... has anybody ever used their insurance after a self-defense shooting and what were the results?