White House petition AGAINST Executive Order for gun control! Please sign!

Petitions are unsophisticated and useless. The seeming obsession of some forum members with them is intriguing. This one is even more interesting: by opposing gun control through (almost certainly illegal) executive order, you're implicitly conceding to some extent the hated Congress' role in the gun control scheme of things. I guess you could get around that by calling congress the lesser of two evils, but that still concedes it has a role. The issue then becomes to determine what it is, and that's something you know Congress will define as broadly as possible. Then it's back to the courts.
 
Sign a useless petition and reveal yourself as politically naive and one who can be written off.



Making your voice heard is not politically naive, even if it is futile to do so.

The left has already written gun owners off, but that shouldn't quiet the voice of those that want to stand up for their rights.

Having a defeatist attitude like that makes you one that can be written off.
 
Petitions are unsophisticated and useless. The seeming obsession of some forum members with them is intriguing. This one is even more interesting: by opposing gun control through (almost certainly illegal) executive order, you're implicitly conceding to some extent the hated Congress' role in the gun control scheme of things. I guess you could get around that by calling congress the lesser of two evils, but that still concedes it has a role. The issue then becomes to determine what it is, and that's something you know Congress will define as broadly as possible. Then it's back to the courts.

.................Piers?
 
Signed It

Making your voice heard is not politically naive, even if it is futile to do so.

The left has already written gun owners off, but that shouldn't quiet the voice of those that want to stand up for their rights.

Having a defeatist attitude like that makes you one that can be written off.

Absolutely, never give up! Especially when the real battle is just beginning!
 
Making your voice heard is not politically naive, even if it is futile to do so.
The left has already written gun owners off, but that shouldn't quiet the voice of those that want to stand up for their rights...

"Making your voice heard" is useless if done in a way that ensures nobody will take it seriously. Petitions are for junior high schoolers who want cafeteria menu changes and wives' clubs in a snit about something. On an issue as serious as gun control you weigh in with succinct, well-reasoned (near-insurmountable hurdles for many, it seems) letters in passable English to Members of Congress and/or you join and fund one of the small number of gun advocacy groups whose people know how to work the political process. That, I point out in case it's just too difficult for you to understand, is a realistic, effective attitude. The losing attitude is to put yourself into the "ignore" group because you chose such an unsophisticated, ineffective means of expression (petitions) that the only effect is to cause eyeballs to roll--if the petition even becomes known to the intended recipient. If you want to feel good, sign and distribute petitions. If you want to feel effective, do it the grown-up way.
 
How do you figure that a petition is useless? You are claiming it's pointless and written off, yet when it gathers enough signatures it must be responded to. Piers Morgan deportation petition, the anti-gun petitions...these gathered media attention. Just because YOU don't agree with it doesn't mean it's pointless. That's the same as a leftist mentality on the Second Amendment. You should promote all forms of non violent protest until there is no option but violent protest.
 
"Making your voice heard" is useless if done in a way that ensures nobody will take it seriously. Petitions are for junior high schoolers who want cafeteria menu changes and wives' clubs in a snit about something. On an issue as serious as gun control you weigh in with succinct, well-reasoned (near-insurmountable hurdles for many, it seems) letters in passable English to Members of Congress and/or you join and fund one of the small number of gun advocacy groups whose people know how to work the political process. That, I point out in case it's just too difficult for you to understand, is a realistic, effective attitude. The losing attitude is to put yourself into the "ignore" group because you chose such an unsophisticated, ineffective means of expression (petitions) that the only effect is to cause eyeballs to roll--if the petition even becomes known to the intended recipient. If you want to feel good, sign and distribute petitions. If you want to feel effective, do it the grown-up way.

I am a member of the NRA and I have written letters already, in passable English no less.

Petitions are just another form of activism. Their effectiveness or lack thereof is a matter of opinion.

That still shouldn't stop anyone from seeing them as another tool in the fight against rights violations and speaking up any way they can.

Using demeaning statements such as "...in case it's just too difficult for you to understand" is nothing more than trolling and is counterproductive and divisive.

We are all on the same team here and this kind of language between us serves no postive purpose.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but you could try being less of a ****.
 
"Making your voice heard" is useless if done in a way that ensures nobody will take it seriously. Petitions are for junior high schoolers who want cafeteria menu changes and wives' clubs in a snit about something. On an issue as serious as gun control you weigh in with succinct, well-reasoned (near-insurmountable hurdles for many, it seems) letters in passable English to Members of Congress and/or you join and fund one of the small number of gun advocacy groups whose people know how to work the political process. That, I point out in case it's just too difficult for you to understand, is a realistic, effective attitude. The losing attitude is to put yourself into the "ignore" group because you chose such an unsophisticated, ineffective means of expression (petitions) that the only effect is to cause eyeballs to roll--if the petition even becomes known to the intended recipient. If you want to feel good, sign and distribute petitions. If you want to feel effective, do it the grown-up way.

I agree. A petition on a white house web page is useless, except to give them another name to add to their extermination list. My answer to your statement about the grown-up way is this:


Honorable (Senator, Congressman, Representative),

I would like to remind you that when you took office, you swore an oath: “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; …”

I also remind you that our Constitution includes the 2nd Amendment: “…the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

The right to keep and bear arms was considered so fundamental to a free people that it was the Second Amendment, second only to freedom of religion and free speech. I also remind you that it guaranteed the right of the people to keep and bear, what were at the time, state-of-the-art military weapons.

Any elected official who proposes, or supports, any legislation that attempts to overturn or limit the Second Amendment is in violation of their oath and they must be removed from office. Their act must be considered an act of Treason against the United States of America and should be prosecuted as such. I expect you to stand firm in support of the Constitution, to honor your oath and to denounce the traitors for what they are. By "any legislation", I consider this to include any sort of so-called 'assault weapons' ban, 'high-capacity' magazine ban, gun registration, outrageous ammunition tax, private weapons sales government intervention, face-to-face only ammunition sales, any type of gun registration and/or any other infringement.

I will not be disarmed to suit the fear that has been established by the media and the misinformation campaign against the American public. I will not register any weapon I currently own, nor any I acquire in the future. It is not the government's right to know what I own.

Common sense and statistics both prove that gun restrictions do not save innocent lives. Restricting people from the right and responsibility to protect themselves and others by establishing "Gun-Free Zones" is one of the most irresponsible and asinine regulations our government has ever imposed. A true law maker, representing the American people, should be doing everything in his/her power to remove such idiotic, foolish and unsafe regulations. So far, I have seen very little support or discussion from Washington to do just this.

You are responsible not only to the American people, but to God Himself. I suggest you seriously consider the oath you took, because God - and the voters - will hold you accountable for your actions in this regard. Another problem I've seen with with today's politicians is the fact that they never seem to give a second of their time for the people they are supposed to be working for. They reply to emails and letters with some simple, standardized, form letter, one-size-fits-all, for each particular issue. I look forward to your response.

Sincerely,


Write it out. Put it into a correctly addressed, stamped envelope and mail it. At least the response that you receive, or lack thereof, will at least let you know where your own legislators stand, and you can vote, or file the appropriate charges, accordingly.
 
I agree. A petition on a white house web page is useless, except to give them another name to add to their extermination list. My answer to your statement about the grown-up way is this:


Honorable (Senator, Congressman, Representative),

I would like to remind you that when you took office, you swore an oath: “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; …”

I also remind you that our Constitution includes the 2nd Amendment: “…the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

The right to keep and bear arms was considered so fundamental to a free people that it was the Second Amendment, second only to freedom of religion and free speech. I also remind you that it guaranteed the right of the people to keep and bear, what were at the time, state-of-the-art military weapons.

Any elected official who proposes, or supports, any legislation that attempts to overturn or limit the Second Amendment is in violation of their oath and they must be removed from office. Their act must be considered an act of Treason against the United States of America and should be prosecuted as such. I expect you to stand firm in support of the Constitution, to honor your oath and to denounce the traitors for what they are. By "any legislation", I consider this to include any sort of so-called 'assault weapons' ban, 'high-capacity' magazine ban, gun registration, outrageous ammunition tax, private weapons sales government intervention, face-to-face only ammunition sales, any type of gun registration and/or any other infringement.

I will not be disarmed to suit the fear that has been established by the media and the misinformation campaign against the American public. I will not register any weapon I currently own, nor any I acquire in the future. It is not the government's right to know what I own.

Common sense and statistics both prove that gun restrictions do not save innocent lives. Restricting people from the right and responsibility to protect themselves and others by establishing "Gun-Free Zones" is one of the most irresponsible and asinine regulations our government has ever imposed. A true law maker, representing the American people, should be doing everything in his/her power to remove such idiotic, foolish and unsafe regulations. So far, I have seen very little support or discussion from Washington to do just this.

You are responsible not only to the American people, but to God Himself. I suggest you seriously consider the oath you took, because God - and the voters - will hold you accountable for your actions in this regard. Another problem I've seen with with today's politicians is the fact that they never seem to give a second of their time for the people they are supposed to be working for. They reply to emails and letters with some simple, standardized, form letter, one-size-fits-all, for each particular issue. I look forward to your response.

Sincerely,


Write it out. Put it into a correctly addressed, stamped envelope and mail it. At least the response that you receive, or lack thereof, will at least let you know where your own legislators stand, and you can vote, or file the appropriate charges, accordingly.

Well written.

I would still contend that any form of speaking out against gun control measures is not "useless" (maybe just less effective) and its counterproductive to present it as so.

Also, I lol'd at "extermination list". Writing a letter probably just puts you higher on that list...

So be it. Come (try to) takem'!!
 
Let them!
They may place me on any list they like. If you're afraid to put your name out there now, where will you be if your country calls on you to defend your rights?
I, for one, will not allow my opinions, in any form, to be stifled out of a sense of futility or fear. These are the weapons if tyrants!
 
If you feel all these efforts are pointless, then call your local LEO and turn your weopons in and become a sheep. I myself will sign petitions, write and call my government reps and do my part to protect America and the Contitution. Go ahead and give up and be a defeatist. I'm a proud AMERICAN patriot and am glad I'm a sheepdog rather than a sheep.
 
We have a President not a King

Ok, why are you giving this administration power where none exists. An Executive Order is the administrative policy the president uses to manages the executive branch. It has no effect on the legislative branch or the supreme court and most importantly over the We the People! Signing any petition regarding using an ill conceived authority surmises to suggestively granting that authority. I.e., "The People have Spoken!"

Your energy would best be served by petitioning your local, state and federal legislator. Ask your Sheriff, who has been running unopposed, what is their stance. Ask your council, mayor theirs thoughts. Push for the state to pass what Wyoming is doing about firearms. And finally get your federal house and senators to hear your thoughts. Go beyond the vote and express your concerns in an email, letters and phone calls. If you know that others have your back it will be hard to ignore!
 
Never give up, never quit. This matter will not be resolved with one petition. But, one petition helps more than nothing. A bridge is not build with one girder, one piling, one, truss. In addition to signing petitions, every American who cares about retaining their 2nd Amendment rights should also be writing to their elected officials. Not just one letter, but recurring letters. They need not be long, but they need to be clear and concise. Do something, but do not give up.
 
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White House Petitions do get a response!

With all the debate about petitions to the W.H., Congress, TV Stations and so on, they do get a response when enough folks speak up!

For your consideration, consider this Yahoo News story, by Olivier Knox, White House answers Death Star petition: No. | The Ticket - Yahoo! News Yes the subject matter may be from the Theatre of the Absurd, but enough people signed it to force a response. Yes,they gave their names & contact info, I wonder what lists they made?

The bottom line is you can hide and cower under your bed, but if you do you have no complaints as to what happens or happened. It is your responsibility as an American Citizen to speak to your elected officials.

They are your employees, they serve at your pleasure, they are responsible to you for their actions or inaction's. Hold their feet to the fire by as much contact with them when they do not act responsibly in your opinion, let them know when they also do (get?) something right.

To not write, petition or call them makes you their servant!
 
in US-vs-Miller the US Supreme Court wrote. "The significance attributed to the term Militia appears from the debates in the Convention, the history and legislation of Colonies and States, and the writings of approved commentators. These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. 'A body of citizens enrolled for military discipline.' And further, that ordinarily when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time."

Now I'm no lawyer but the last sentence pretty much says I'm suppose to have an "AR" platform in my gun safe to be a good citizen and be in line with the Constitution. :D
 
No easy way out

People like the easy way out. This is there way of saying I did my part. SORRY, our part is continual, you don't do something once and you're done OH NO. :shout: You have to be persistant in your efforts to keep what is rightfully yours. Unless you have decided to give up and let go. I have not, nor will I ever give up my rights.
 
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How do you figure that a petition is useless? You are claiming it's pointless and written off, yet when it gathers enough signatures it must be responded to. Piers Morgan deportation petition, the anti-gun petitions...these gathered media attention. Just because YOU don't agree with it doesn't mean it's pointless. That's the same as a leftist mentality on the Second Amendment. You should promote all forms of non violent protest until there is no option but violent protest.

DITTO! To those worried about giving your name etc. to the White House via a petition, I think we can assume they already have your name etc. from this and any other gun related forum that you participate in!!
 

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