When local business post no weapons

[Blredneck13]

I am new to the forum and not sure if this has been discussed before, so forgive me if it has. My question is when encountering a business with a no weapons sign on the door do you still carry your concealed firearm in the establishment? My thoughts are if my weapon is concealed properly then they shouldn't even know it's there. But along with that if the need should arise, i.e. Active shooter, armed robbery, I would not unholster my weapon unless myself or my family is in eminent danger. Just looking for others thoughts on this. I am obviously not talking about government buildings or schools here just restaurants and other merchants.

 

[NavyLCDR]

You are not sure if this has been discussed before? Really?!? Wow. Maybe you should try reading the forum just a tiny little bit first because only 7 threads down on the Concealed Carry Discussion page - which is on the exact same webpage that your thread is on at the moment, is this:

https://www.usacarry.com/forums/con...al-carry-into-posted-no-carry-businesses.html

So, I mean really?!!!!!

 

[HKS]

It gets discussed over and over.

If I ever see a "no guns" sign then I will turn away and shop someplace else.

If I don't see one then I don't worry about it.

My 45ACP is always carefully concealed under a sweatshirt or sweater AND jacket with an IWB holster so you would need crystal balls or xray vision to see my 45ACP on me.

If I see someone in open carry mode, then I raise and tuck my sweatshirt/sweater so that I too am in open carry mode.

Open carry mode can draw about 1/4 to 1/2 second faster than from concealed carry, therefore I do not want to concede the advantage.

If I see someone with a gun out and in their hands I draw my gun immediately.

If I see them pointing their gun at another person this is a class A felony and I will shoot them immediately probably about 3 to 5 times.

If that other person is me, they will probably be dead already. Situational awareness on my part prevents anyone with a gun getting close enough to me to shoot me first.

 

[Bikenut]

1. No one has any right to be on/in someone else's private property. All anyone ever has is the property owner's permission if the owner grants it.

2. Businesses that are open to the public are still private property.

3. "Open to the public" does not mean the property is open to everyone. It means the property is "open" only to those members of the public who agree to abide by the property owner's policies/rules as a condition of the owner granting permission to enter.

4. Trespass is defined as being on/in the private property of another without permission.

5. Those who do not agree to abide by a no guns policy/rule do not have the property owner's permission to enter and are therefor trespassing.

6. Trespass is a crime. How and when the penalties for trespass (ranging from simply being asked to leave to being arrested) are appled varies in the laws of each state.

7. Being arrested for trespass could negatively impact a person's carry permit.

Also...

It isn't logical for someone who supports the right to bear arms to shop at a business with a no guns policy/rule and increase the profits so the businessman can afford to open yet another business with a no guns policy/rule.

Those who expect their right to bear arms be respected while sneaking their gun into/onto private property that has a no guns policy/rule are being hypocritical because their actions show disrespect for the property owner's property right to deny entry to those who bear arms.

Everyone has the choice of disrespecting the property owner's rights and chancing suffering the penalties of being caught trespassing while adding to the businessman's profits... or avoiding all that by shopping elsewhere.

 

[NavyLCDR]

If I see someone in open carry mode, then I raise and tuck my sweatshirt/sweater so that I too am in open carry mode.

Open carry mode can draw about 1/4 to 1/2 second faster than from concealed carry, therefore I do not want to concede the advantage.

Concede the advantage to whom? Are you afraid that the person open carrying might beat you to being the hero if a criminal should happen to commit a violent crime in their presence as well as your own?

If I see someone with a gun out and in their hands I draw my gun immediately.

Call me a coward - I'm looking for the nearest exit first. I have a family to support.

If I see them pointing their gun at another person this is a class A felony and I will shoot them immediately probably about 3 to 5 times.

There are several instances in which pointing a gun at another person is not a crime. You could just as easily be shooting a person who is defending themselves against a hostile action that was taken against them. You could just as easily be shooting a police officer not in uniform affected an arrest.

If that other person is me, they will probably be dead already. Situational awareness on my part prevents anyone with a gun getting close enough to me to shoot me first.

Because it seems like you are just itching for a reason to draw your gun and be some sort of superhero.

 

[HKS]

Concede the advantage to whom? Are you afraid that the person open carrying might beat you to being the hero if a criminal should happen to commit a violent crime in their presence as well as your own?



Call me a coward - I'm looking for the nearest exit first. I have a family to support.



There are several instances in which pointing a gun at another person is not a crime. You could just as easily be shooting a person who is defending themselves against a hostile action that was taken against them. You could just as easily be shooting a police officer not in uniform affected an arrest.



Because it seems like you are just itching for a reason to draw your gun and be some sort of superhero.

The USMC D/I's in your USN boot camp should have taught you "never ass-u-me".

 

[Eidolon]

Concede the advantage to whom? Are you afraid that the person open carrying might beat you to being the hero if a criminal should happen to commit a violent crime in their presence as well as your own?



Call me a coward - I'm looking for the nearest exit first. I have a family to support.



There are several instances in which pointing a gun at another person is not a crime. You could just as easily be shooting a person who is defending themselves against a hostile action that was taken against them. You could just as easily be shooting a police officer not in uniform affected an arrest.



Because it seems like you are just itching for a reason to draw your gun and be some sort of superhero.

OMG. Dude you are stroking out over a troll

 

[HKS]

OMG. Dude you are stroking out over a troll

Are you a troll? You sound like it.

 

[NavyLCDR]

OMG. Dude you are stroking out over a troll

I think it is important to post common sense rebuttals so that new people like Blredneck13 don't read the bravado B.S. posts and think that is the way all concealed carriers act. And since Blredneck13 started a thread about a subject that was already right on the very same web page that he posted it on, it's clear that he isn't going to read much else, even if he reads replies to his own thread.

 

[HKS]

Here are my rules for public carry(ing) of firearms.

1 - either you carry all the time or you carry none of the time.

2 - concealed carry is superior to open carry because nobody can see your firearm and it does not create a stir among gun scared-ee cats.

3 - if someone (other than a police officer) comes into your view who is open carry(ing) their firearm then you need to remove your concealment as well and match them open carry for open carry. No choice. Otherwise they can out-draw you by 1/4th to 1/2 second.

4 - Never take your firearm out of your holster except (1) in self defense to shoot, (2) at the gun range to practice, or (2) at home to clean it after shooting it.

5 - The only appropriate holds for a firearm are (1) holstered or slung, or (2) drawn and pointed vertically (up) in the carrying position for movement, or (3) aimed low on target in the ready position pointing towards the ground at your target, or (4) on target as you pull the trigger to shoot and kill.

6 - If your firearm is properly concealed then it does not matter what any sign says. Nobody is going to know about it.

Those are all good rules that someone preparing to carry in public needs to know and memorize. Bravado or no bravado.

 

[Eidolon]

Here are my rules for public carry(ing) of firearms.

1 - either you carry all the time or you carry none of the time.

I have to admit I agree with this

 

[HKS]

I have to admit I agree with this

Thank you.

 

[Genasi]

Gun rights trump property rights every time.

Always carry, never tell.

The first rule of a gun fight is to have a gun.

 

[corneileous]

Just as I stated in the last thread regarding these goofy "robbers welcome" signs, I carry anyway. That's where the beauty of concealed carry comes in. They don't hold the weight of the law here in Oklahoma other than the possibility of a trespassing charge, if you get caught carrying, they mean nothing to me and I ain't gonna go out of my way to search for a gun-friendly store somewhere else. That's bullish!t. Kudos to all of you I guess that do and even wastefully spend your time to inform the the owner of your opposition who does not care about your stance in the first place.

About that whole "disrespecting of rights" nonsense, if these people ain't gonna take measures to make sure ALL guns stay out of their store, then they deserve to have their sign disrespected. Simple as that.

Airline terminals and most of your courthouses use metal detectors and such to keep guns out so, they can follow suit as well if they are that serious enough to ban guns. Disarming the good people is not the answer. Robbers, thugs and the real criminals are going to carry in there just despite the sign and do their crime. If they are going to ban carrying on their premises, ENFORCE THE BAN to all. The defensive carrier wouldn't have a reason to carry past the sign at all if the reason he/she carried for in the first place was kept out.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Gun rights trump property rights every time.

Always carry, never tell.

The first rule of a gun fight is to have a gun.

Except that you have no right to be on others' private property.

 

[HKS]

Except that you have no right to be on others' private property.

I agree with Genasi.

I disagree with NavyLCDR.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I agree with Genasi.

I disagree with NavyLCDR.

That's fine. When the person in control of the private property such as the manager of the WalMart Store tells you to leave, then refuse and see where it gets you. Especially when the manager reports to the police that you are armed and refusing to leave. You'll be exercising your rights in handcuffs as the police escort you to the exit. Refuse to leave my private property when I tell you to leave and you'll be lucky if the only metal attached to your body is handcuffs.

 

[HKS]

That's fine. When the person in control of the private property such as the manager of the WalMart Store tells you to leave, then refuse and see where it gets you. Especially when the manager reports to the police that you are armed and refusing to leave. You'll be exercising your rights in handcuffs as the police escort you to the exit. Refuse to leave my private property when I tell you to leave and you'll be lucky if the only metal attached to your body is handcuffs.

Another straw man. Jeeze you are good at straw men.

I am not suggesting you should refuse to leave when told to.

I am saying that with a concealed firearm that is properly concealed, nobody is ever going to know.

 

[Hatchetman]

My "gun" is MY PROPERTY.... and me having it on my person cannot ever possibly infringe on someone elses "property rights" as it does them no harm being on my person... If you want to champion "property rights" by excluding mine while including someone elses, YOU HAVE UTTERLY FAILED THE LOGIC TEST and have no valid argument. Carry ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE there arent armed guards and metal detectors (and avoid those places as much as humanly possible)

 

[HKS]

My "gun" is MY PROPERTY.... and me having it on my person cannot ever possibly infringe on someone elses "property rights" as it does them no harm being on my person... If you want to champion "property rights" by excluding mine while including someone elses, YOU HAVE UTTERLY FAILED THE LOGIC TEST and have no valid argument. Carry ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE there arent armed guards and metal detectors (and avoid those places as much as humanly possible)

I agree completely.

Part of the reason why this is true is because your life is fragile and once it is gone for whatever reason it is gone.

You can sit around Heaven or Hell discussing how and why you lost it, but whatever you say there I think the others are still going to laugh at you.