What would you do?

[cruzthepug]

This kinda goes along with the "Get involved or mind your own" thread and not to hijack it, how about this situation. A local trial and reading the above thread got me thinking. In the local case there was a couple sitting at the bar a TGI Fridays when another individual enters, walks past and a few words are exchanges. The guy then pulls out his gun and opens fire shooting 3 and killing 2.

Now, what do you do if your sitting in the restaurant and your armed? Take cover and hope bullets don't fly your way? Take aim and take down the shooter? If you weren't paying attention to what had happened earlier you might not know the gunman was aiming at someone or if it was just a random loony shooting up the place.

What would you do?

 

[Piece Corps]

If I was armed, the shooter is going down. Especially in Florida, your life doesn't have to be the only one in danger. I wouldn't wait around to see if he was shooting into the ceiling or at me - as soon as he starts discharging that firearm, he is endangering everyone in the restaurant, including me. And I will shoot him dead.

 

[Glock Fan]

It all depends on who's with me at the time. If I'm by myself, then I'd do what I can to get others to safety and return fire if given the opportunity. If I'm with family, friends, or other innocents who are "unarmed", I'd get them outta there and be following behind them. Once in a safe place, I'll make the 911 call and assist in the meantime if necessary.

Unless I'm backed into a corner, I will usually make an effort to get outta there. I'm not "Superman", nor some type of "super hero". I'm not a sworn LEO, so there's no "duty to protect" on my part. Call it what you like, but it's what I would do. Considering the fact that I'm not up to being arrested and put on trial if things don't turn out the way I want them to. Even if I'm successful at neutralizing the threat, I will probably incur some legal fees and my freedom may be limited for a while as the LE agencies and DA figure things out. Even if cleared of criminal charges, I would still face possible civil litigation from the BG's surviving family members. Win or lose, I'll have to spend some time in court defending myself. Along side me would be my legal counsel. His billable hours for court are around $300/hr. Not sure that I'm willing to go into debt if I could have avoided it.



gf

 

[krazyk]

It all depends on who's with me at the time. If I'm by myself, then I'd do what I can to get others to safety and return fire if given the opportunity. If I'm with family, friends, or other innocents who are "unarmed", I'd get them outta there and be following behind them. Once in a safe place, I'll make the 911 call and assist in the meantime if necessary.

Unless I'm backed into a corner, I will usually make an effort to get outta there. I'm not "Superman", nor some type of "super hero". I'm not a sworn LEO, so there's no "duty to protect" on my part. Call it what you like, but it's what I would do. Considering the fact that I'm not up to being arrested and put on trial if things don't turn out the way I want them to. Even if I'm successful at neutralizing the threat, I will probably incur some legal fees and my freedom may be limited for a while as the LE agencies and DA figure things out. Even if cleared of criminal charges, I would still face possible civil litigation from the BG's surviving family members. Win or lose, I'll have to spend some time in court defending myself. Along side me would be my legal counsel. His billable hours for court are around $300/hr. Not sure that I'm willing to go into debt if I could have avoided it.



gf

i feel ya Brother

 

[Boomboy007]

What I logically think and what my gut would make me do are different.

I would have a hard time standing by and watching people, even strangers, be murdered when I could stop the gunman.

 

[Glock Fan]

I would have a hard time standing by and watching people, even strangers, be murdered when I could stop the gunman.

I've thought the scenario through many times. As stated earlier, if I'm by myself, I'd do what I can to help out. My first obligation would be to keep my family safe. Engaging a BG would likely put them at risk. Getting them to safety would be my first concern. Helping others would be a close second.

Earlier in life I saved an elderly man who I found unconcious. I'm an AHA CPR/First Aid instructor. My efforts managed to revive the man. He was unconcious for several minutes, he survived but ended up with brain damage and needed to be cared for in a skilled nursing facility. The family decided that they needed to sue me because I didn't bring the man back to life fast enough. In this case, being a "good guy" cost me almost $8k in legal fees. The case was eventually dismissed, but I still needed to pay approx. half of my legal fees (hence the $8k) not to mention the time and aggrivation of beiong put on trial.

It's unfortunate, but due to this incident I've come to the course of action as stated in my previous post. I hate to think what would have happened if it were a firearms related incident. Sometimes I wonder if I would have been better off if the man died. Would I help again if I came into a similar situation? I definitely would, but now I have insurance that would cover most of my legal expenses. Unfortunately I can't find an insurance policy that would cover me in the event of a shoot out with a BG.


gf

 

[Boomboy007]

Wow. Just..... wow.

Talk about learning the hard way. You have given me a lot to consider, GF.

 

[gdcleanfun]

GF, that man's family wouldn't know a Good Samaritan if it bit them in the arse! The judge should have thrown that case against you outta court from the get-go!

 

[ricbak]

I've thought the scenario through many times. As stated earlier, if I'm by myself, I'd do what I can to help out. My first obligation would be to keep my family safe. Engaging a BG would likely put them at risk. Getting them to safety would be my first concern. Helping others would be a close second.~~

GF Thank you for this post... I woke up thinking about it early this morning. My family Must come first. Our "Obligation", our duty is to keep them safe. You are a wise man GF.. Thanks again.

 

[Glock Fan]

GF Thank you for this post... I woke up thinking about it early this morning. My family Must come first. Our "Obligation", our duty is to keep them safe. You are a wise man GF.. Thanks again.

A few years ago, when asked the same question, my answer would probably have been a lot different. Having been through a bunch of training courses, I learned that it's o.k. to take care of my family and friends, and ensure their safety before helping others. If I'm alone, I'd do whatever I could to assist others. If my son is with me, it's hard to do anything because the 4 year old wants to "help daddy". In the process of helping others, he could get seriously injured. Hence why my course of action has changed. Get the innocents to safety first, then help out where necessary. A simple call to 911 may make all the difference.

Not every scenario will be the same. When I'm out and about I'm constantly looking for avenues of escape and considering the "what ifs". Part of "survival" is having good "situational awareness". We teach this as part of a self-defense class. Be aware of what's happening around you and get outta there if something doesn't look right.



gf

 

[2beararms]

Wow, I guess I think differently. My thought in protecting MY family WOULD BE to try take the shooter down! Of course, agreeing with Peace Corp, since I am Floridian, I know the law is on my side. I forcible felony is in progress, I have full legal justification to intervene using whatever force necessary including lethal force to stop that forcible felony.

In the scenerio you have me at a neighboring table, I doubt that quietly trying to sneak the family out of the room is going to work well, so I say they hit the floor and I take aim. If I don't have a clean shot, or am some distance away that is different. But next table? I will be happy to help pay to provide the legal representation in any state on that one if you shoot him. Your life indeed IS in danger.

No state has a the bullet has to be on its way to your head statute.

Now if the guy were running to the door, or for any other reason the commission of the forcible felony has ceased and the threat has passed, then that is a whole different animal ... I think we all understand those rules.

 

[Piece Corps]

Given the vagueness of the situation, it's hard to say exactly what anyone would do. But if I was there with my family, and this guy starts shooting - and he's right there next to me - my life and that of my family is in danger. It would be hard to run, and the only cover would be under the table. So do you drop to the floor and hope the shooting stops? Do you try to run, with your family in tow? Or do you take out the threat?

If it was in the next room, or a few booths away, then maybe I'd try to get away from the gunfire. I'm no hero, either, but when the threat is close, you have to make a split-second decision, and it could cost you your life, and/or that of your family members. I don't want to be involved in a shoot-out in a restaurant, but I may not have a choice. So I have to be prepared. And if I'm carrying, I have a chance to stop this guy from killing anyone (else?).

 

[Glock Fan]

Wow, I guess I think differently. My thought in protecting MY family WOULD BE to try take the shooter down! Of course, agreeing with Peace Corp, since I am Floridian, I know the law is on my side. I forcible felony is in progress, I have full legal justification to intervene using whatever force necessary including lethal force to stop that forcible felony.

In the scenerio you have me at a neighboring table, I doubt that quietly trying to sneak the family out of the room is going to work well, so I say they hit the floor and I take aim. If I don't have a clean shot, or am some distance away that is different. But next table? I will be happy to help pay to provide the legal representation in any state on that one if you shoot him. Your life indeed IS in danger.

No state has a the bullet has to be on its way to your head statute.

Now if the guy were running to the door, or for any other reason the commission of the forcible felony has ceased and the threat has passed, then that is a whole different animal ... I think we all understand those rules.

The scenario said nothing about being at the "next table".

This kinda goes along with the "Get involved or mind your own" thread and not to hijack it, how about this situation. A local trial and reading the above thread got me thinking. In the local case there was a couple sitting at the bar a TGI Fridays when another individual enters, walks past and a few words are exchanges. The guy then pulls out his gun and opens fire shooting 3 and killing 2.

Now, what do you do if your sitting in the restaurant and your armed? Take cover and hope bullets don't fly your way? Take aim and take down the shooter? If you weren't paying attention to what had happened earlier you might not know the gunman was aiming at someone or if it was just a random loony shooting up the place.

What would you do?

As noted above in BOLD lettering, the BG walks past , exchanges a few words then opens fire. The scenario didn't say how far "past" the BG walked. It could have been to the next table, it could have been clear across the restaurant to the back room. This is why my post indicated different possibilities based on the variables of my situation.

As I stated earlier, every situation is different. As armed citizens, we must evaluate the situation, then act accordingly. Remember the NRA rules of firearms safety "Know your target and what is beyond." How likely is it that you will get a "clear shot" in a crowded restaurant? Keep in mind that the BG already has his gun out and ready to swing on you. Is it possible to draw and present a concealed firearm and effectively engage the BG? Maybe Likely? No. For the sake of all in the restaurant, it may be best to take cover, draw your firearm from a concealed location, then assess the situation and look for an opportunity to safely engage the BG.

Every situation is different. We can go around in circles on this. All I can say is that I hope that I never find myself in this situation.


gf

 

[Oram Security Consultants]

Ok, kinda a vague story line so.... my answer will be a bit vague.

I would assess the situation, dial 911.... need the back up, just because I can only see one shooter does not mean there he/she does not have back up.... then if my family ie who ever I am with is safe, I will engage. Shoot and move. I say this because of my confidence in my ability to handle the situation and the ramifications of my actions. That being said, when I teach, I would instruct my students to assess the situation, call 911 and keep their family safe. Draw their weapon and be prepared to engage IF the active shoot points in their direction otherwise engage ONLY if they feel 100% about making the shot... I know the legally they can take the shot because of the use of deadly force but that does not mean that you HAVE to take the shot.

 

[51percent]

It all depends on who's with me at the time. If I'm by myself, then I'd do what I can to get others to safety and return fire if given the opportunity. If I'm with family, friends, or other innocents who are "unarmed", I'd get them outta there and be following behind them. Once in a safe place, I'll make the 911 call and assist in the meantime if necessary.

Unless I'm backed into a corner, I will usually make an effort to get outta there. I'm not "Superman", nor some type of "super hero". I'm not a sworn LEO, so there's no "duty to protect" on my part. Call it what you like, but it's what I would do. Considering the fact that I'm not up to being arrested and put on trial if things don't turn out the way I want them to. Even if I'm successful at neutralizing the threat, I will probably incur some legal fees and my freedom may be limited for a while as the LE agencies and DA figure things out. Even if cleared of criminal charges, I would still face possible civil litigation from the BG's surviving family members. Win or lose, I'll have to spend some time in court defending myself. Along side me would be my legal counsel. His billable hours for court are around $300/hr. Not sure that I'm willing to go into debt if I could have avoided it.

gf

Get outta there, call 911 or call 911 and drop the phone in your front pocket if you can't get out. Let them record the whole thing. It's a mine field of legal ramifications even if you're 100% right. On the other hand if the deadly force is coming your way and you're speaking into the mic then defend yourself. forget about the legal shit. Blow the head clean off, no open casket.

 

[Glock Fan]

Get outta there, call 911 or call 911 and drop the phone in your front pocket if you can't get out. Let them record the whole thing. It's a mine field of legal ramifications even if you're 100% right. On the other hand if the deadly force is coming your way and you're speaking into the mic then defend yourself. forget about the legal shit. Blow the head clean off, no open casket.

The open line to 911 is a good idea.


gf

 

[cruzthepug]

These are some great responses and about what I was thinking. I think the key would be how close to the BG you were to determine the corse of action. I think GF is right, you must see that your family/friends are safe first and call 911. I think in this senerio the action plays very fast, so fast that unless you were watching what was going on the three shots would be fired and the shooter is heading for the door in just a matter of a few seconds and you really wouldn't have a chance to do anything. Unlike a situation like some of these school shootings where the gunman is walking around looking for targets.

One things for sure, I would feel better knowing that if needed I could defend myself.

 

[garand garand]

there are some very good articals in this months Combat Handguns magazine on real life situations and what to do and what not to do.

 

[SonoraRebel]

I reckon that scenario would depend on what state you're in.

I'd take as many aspects of the situation in as possible... given the element of surprise and act accordingly. That said... if at all possible I would shoot (or make the attempt) the BG if I had the opportunity. My wife is also armed... so that's another situation right there.

 

[OldOwl]

After reading the thread, I'm wondering how the shooter was determined as a BG? Lets say you take him down, and he turns out to be a detective, and the three who were shot were making a drug deal and reached for weapons which drew his fire? Now you're REALLY screwed.