What Would The Vets Do?

[BORNFREE]

First off, i just want to say "THANK YOU" to all the brave men and women that have served in the military for this country. You are the heart and soul of this nation and we can never say how much you mean and how much you are loved by every freedom loving American. I am worried about the direction that this country is heading, toward socialism, and i would like to know what military personal, active and retired, feel about it? I have a question to you, and forgive me if i am out of line but i guess i would like to know what you (vets) would do if our country is taken over by a socialist administration. Would the ex-military personnel fight against such an administration; even if it meant taking up arms to protect our constitutional system, our republic? What do you think? Is this country heading toward a civil war and if we are what would our military do? I guess i want to know what other Americans think, especially Americans that have served in the Military. Would our military submit to a UN takeover of this country? I am not saying this is happening i am just throwing out this scenario for discussion sake. What is your opinion?

 

[fstroupe]

Bornfree, that takeover has pretty much happened without a shot being fired.

 

[~OtisM~]

Bornfree, that takeover has pretty much happened without a shot being fired.

Um, what? First I've heard of this.

 

[the dark]

Speaking as a veteran, I hope my military brethren are a little more discerning and rational in their analysis of our situation and our country than are the alarmists and frightened people who think that somehow our nation and its foundations have been torn down. The false bravado of so many is simply cover for the ongoing fear that was brought home to them on 9-11, was used as a political tool, and now festers in the heart of so many. They were afraid - that is the goal of terror - they were told to blame their own country and fellow citizens who disagreed with them - this distrust is a goal of terror. Their existential fear needs release and is a useful tool of those who succeed if we are divided.

Some sad **** to a veteran who served this great nation, to see our own people still supporting the efforts to tear it down over a decade later.

 

[Oldgrunt]

Speaking also as a veteran, I think most of us are rational and, contrary to being alarmists, we are aware of what is/has happened to our country over the last few years. We have relinquished more control to the UN and acquiesed to those who want the US in an inferior position in the world. This once great nation has slowly degraded in the eyes of the world and has become the target of insults and treachery and trying to instill fear in our populace through recent actions. There was a time when the president of the US would have quashed this at the beginning of any action and the world knew it. Now, any country who wants can spit on us with impunity. Our current occupant of the White House has gone around the world apologizing for what we are when, if anything, he should be praising this nation for what we have done for the rest of the world. If not for the US, chances are that most of Europe would be speaking German now and the rest Russian.

Back to the OP's original question, would our veterans and active military fight a take over of the US? I don't think our military, as a whole, would fight a take over because, very subtlety, that takeover is being accomplished right now. I don't think anyone in our military or the Defense Department would ever speak up to buck the current administration. Most would be job-scared and would not stand up when we need them. Our troops are highly trained and, unless they know the orders they receive are wrong, they will do what they are told. That is not said as an insult but indicates the superior training they have received. Our military would need an intense indoctrination period to re-learn American history and our Constitution. In our oath of office, we all swore to defend our country from all enemies, both foreign and domestic. Right now, one may have trouble in differentiating between them and, consequently, our troops would be in a quandry. In the end, their military discipline would rule out and they would do what they are told. The main task at hand now is to re-indoctrinate them as United States service members, not UN troops.

As for the rest of us, I don't truly know what we would do. There would need to be some organization to be effective and, if anyone can come up with the answer, count me in.

 

[Stan45]

We have redistributed wealth, MB in some key offices, Marxist model is being set up. We have Federal Court: OK With Indefinite Detention of American Citizens.

 

[BORNFREE]

What i was really asking is will our military and our vets, by large, fight to take back our county if the socialist administration, that we currently have in office, pushes through the small arms treaty that they are currently working on and starts to take away the only thing that stands between democracy and enslavement, i,e, our firearms. A lot of constitution loving Americans will not give up that right or their weapons, that secure that right, and every other right that we are currently losing. We are being slowly taken over by corrupt politicians, like a frog being slowly boiled in water. That's not paranoia, it is not fear from 9/11 it is a fact. Each administration is worst than the one before it. A lot of people see this, that is why firearms and ammo are being purchased, by the public, with greater volume than ever in the history of our country. If the small arms treaty is passed there will be nothing to stop the current administration or the next administration from inviting in UN troops to enforce the treaty. Will our own military help to disarm the citizens of this country? Or will they say "that is enough" and make a stand with the other Americans that will not surrender the second amendment to the boys with the blue hats? Our military is the best trained and, as far as i am concerned, the toughest fighting force in the World. Anyone that goes against them is asking to have a major hurting administered upon themselves. That is what scars me.., not jihad johnny. That is why i am asking the current and former fighting men and women of this country were they stand? Please do take these questions in the wrong way. I think our military, and everyone serving now and in the past, are beyond reproach and very, very, special individuals. Without you, America does not stand a chance of surviving as a Republic and as a free nation.

 

[fstroupe]

Sorry, this is just rambling, but what I'm feeling right now.....

Bornfree, I'm afraid that you got your answer. Most probably didn't answer out of fear (or whatever) that you are a troll. Some are afraid to say much because they feel that this forum is probably being monitored by the feds. (EDIT: The entire USA Carry forum locked up just after I posted this. Gave me a weird feeling.....)

Many veterans do not believe in your stated fears, that we destroyed "the communists" in 1989 and the possibility of a Marxist takeover ended with the fall of the Soviet empire. There are those who might believe it is possible but do not realize it is happening and has been for their entire lifetimes.

Some just don't care. Some are in denial. Some are too busy enjoying their retirement, drawing that Unky Sugar check. Some actually like the current situation....my dad, a vet but also a 46-year union member hates the rich, so is pretty happy with the current climate.

As far as the guys who are currently wearing the uniform, they, as most youth, really aren't old enough to realize the possibility. My son (101st Airborne Division) and my grandson (82nd Airborne Division) do, but only because they grew up listening to their crazy ol' dad/pawpaw. And only the grandson really cares enough to take it seriously....

They will follow orders as long as they involve only sending bullets downrange. What will happen if they are ordered to turn their rifles on fellow Americans? THE END OF THIS COUNTRY!!!

I personally think that the takeover has progressed beyond the point of no return, beyond the point of anyone actually taking a stand. That should have happened while the "water was still cool", back in the 1960s while LBJ and the most liberal Congress of all times were instituting the things that you fear. We were fully warned, the Link Removed were read into the Congressional Record in February 1963!

When it was warming up during the Carter administration. At some point in time during the time when we had four of the worst administrations in a row since the second half of the 19th Century.

What do you expect to see when "the stand is taken". Do you not realize that is what the "tea parties" was/is all about? Not a stand with guns, but with signs and votes. People sick of the whole process, but realizing that "taking a stand" must be within the Constitution.

But do not depend on the veterans as a group to stand up this time. We were united under a flag and a uniform during our various times serving the country, but we are far from united now, and I would imagine not even a total economic collapse would bring us together. I'd hope myself wrong, but just don't have that much faith in veterans as a group. The VFW and American Legion are not the organizations that they once were.

I just can't see a Glen Miller fan standing beside a Jimi Hendrix fan standing beside a KC and the Sunshine Band fan standing beside a Van Halen fan standing beside a Gwar fan standing beside a....well, you get the picture.

 

[Rhino]

What i was really asking is will our military and our vets, by large, fight to take back our county if the socialist administration, that we currently have in office, pushes through the small arms treaty that they are currently working on and starts to take away the only thing that stands between democracy and enslavement, i,e, our firearms.

The UN small arms treaty died back in July. There are several threads on that here. As for our military submitting to a UN takeover, no, they would not. They take an oath to defend the Constitution, and they take that oath seriously.

 

[fearhd]

As a Veteran (82nd Airborne) I swore to defend OUR country against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. I'm not an alarmist or a consperacy thearist but if this actually comes to a head, I myself and most everyone I know will keep our oath.

 

[CharlesMorrison]

We where sworn to defend this Nation and to uphold the Constitution against all enemies, both foreign AND domestic.

 

[mappow]

First off, i just want to say "THANK YOU" to all the brave men and women that have served in the military for this country. You are the heart and soul of this nation and we can never say how much you mean and how much you are loved by every freedom loving American. I am worried about the direction that this country is heading, toward socialism, and i would like to know what military personal, active and retired, feel about it? I have a question to you, and forgive me if i am out of line but i guess i would like to know what you (vets) would do if our country is taken over by a socialist administration. Would the ex-military personnel fight against such an administration; even if it meant taking up arms to protect our constitutional system, our republic? What do you think? Is this country heading toward a civil war and if we are what would our military do? I guess i want to know what other Americans think, especially Americans that have served in the Military. Would our military submit to a UN takeover of this country? I am not saying this is happening i am just throwing out this scenario for discussion sake. What is your opinion?

HAS BEEN, and as stated by fstroupe "without a shot being fired" and completed by fearhd "I swore to defend OUR country against all enemies, both foreign and domestic." Pretty much sums it up for most VETS and active duty I think.

 

[fstroupe]

We where sworn to defend this Nation and to uphold the Constitution against all enemies, both foreign AND domestic.

IMO, the domestic enemy was well camouflaged in sheep's clothing and sneaked right in. McCarthy warned us, Goldwater warned us, Ronald Regan spent nearly 30 years warning us, and we fell for the left attacking the messenger, thus diverting us from the message.

I have spent most of the nearly 30 years that I have been warning people being laughed at and scoffed. Most who will read this will laugh and scoff, call me a tinfoil hat paranoid, a fool, a liar, or whatever. So be it....you have failed me, I didn't fail you.

If you question the fact that it has happened....answer me this. How did we get merely a 5-4 ruling that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms? If we were still free it should have been a unanimous decision.

 

[Stan45]

NWO Reflections and Warnings: Final Interview with Aaron Russo

Reflections and Warnings: Final Interview with Aaron Russo

 

[Rhino]

IMO, the domestic enemy was well camouflaged in sheep's clothing and sneaked right in. McCarthy warned us, Goldwater warned us, Ronald Regan spent nearly 30 years warning us, and we fell for the left attacking the messenger, thus diverting us from the message.

I have spent most of the nearly 30 years that I have been warning people being laughed at and scoffed. Most who will read this will laugh and scoff, call me a tinfoil hat paranoid, a fool, a liar, or whatever. So be it....you have failed me, I didn't fail you.

If you question the fact that it has happened....answer me this. How did we get merely a 5-4 ruling that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms? If we were still free it should have been a unanimous decision.

If you're referring to Heller, the 5-4 vote had to do with far more than just whether or not the 2nd amendment protects an individual right. That debate predates McCarthy, Goldwater and Ronald Reagan by quite a bit and it was never a quiet argument, so it wasn't camouflaged or sneaky. You are to be commended for your passion and fervor, but differences over constitutional interpretations, at least up to this point, hardly warrant military action against the Supreme Court, politicians or any segment of our population. Arguing that a domestic enemy exists that is worthy of such consideration is a bit over the top.

 

[kerb]

There are better ways to take back the country. All it takes is a majority vote. That's how the founding fathers set it up. The ability to effect change that way is what us veterans signed up to fight for, whether some of us realize it or not. That whole uphold the constitution thing.

We'd better hope it goes no farther than that. Look how the guard confiscated arms during Katrina. You think they wouldn't have opened fire if so ordered? I don't think a lot of these kids would question orders. They are programmed not to.



Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[Shoobee]

As long as things are done constitutionally by the will of the people, then any of us who have taken an oath to defend the Constitution should have no qualms.

Had Nixon refused to do the will of the USSC, then there might have been massive protests and riots, like you are seeing in the Arab Spring in the Middle East. But Nixon peacefully resigned, as he should have, under pressure from his own party and Congress.

Other than that, I don't see any major issues that have come up lately.

When W. Bush's election (the first one) went to the USSC, the USSC decided the matter. Not everyone agreed with the outcome, but everyone agreed with the procedure. Too bad for Al Gore, he won the popular vote, but not the electoral college, due to questionable circumstances in a close vote in Florida. There is probably a good reason why God shaped Florida like it is. To warn us.

There is a good chance Romney may win the popular vote now, but lose the election due to the electoral college. Oh well, that's how the Constitution works. Better get used to it.

The major salient issue when I was a commissioned officer was whether any of us would give the command to fire upon American civilians, like at Kent State. We all in my class concluded that we would not.

Arab civilians, no problem.

Asian civilians, also no problem.

 

[Shoobee]

If you're referring to Heller, the 5-4 vote had to do with far more than just whether or not the 2nd amendment protects an individual right. That debate predates McCarthy, Goldwater and Ronald Reagan by quite a bit and it was never a quiet argument, so it wasn't camouflaged or sneaky. You are to be commended for your passion and fervor, but differences over constitutional interpretations, at least up to this point, hardly warrant military action against the Supreme Court, politicians or any segment of our population. Arguing that a domestic enemy exists that is worthy of such consideration is a bit over the top.

It is indeed really unfortunate that all the USSC justices from NYC cannot read plain English in the 2nd Amendment.

It is also unfortunate that none of the women onthe USSC can read plain English.

We need a Constitutional amendment that no one from NYC or female may be appointed to the USSC. No way around it.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

 

[Oldgrunt]

To add as an example, several years ago, a young Army E-4, refused to wear blue UN headgear when his unit was assigned duty under UN control. His rationale for disobeying the order was because he was an American soldier and did not owe allegiance to the UN. He didn't refuse to perform his duties with his unit, only to wearing the trappings of the UN. No one in his chain of command supported the kid and he was discharged from the Army. He was only one man who stood up as a US soldier and paid the price for his stand. All the others wore the blue headgear. Is that an indication of what our troops may do in a push-come-to-shove situation? Will they obey, knowing that the orders they are being given are unlawful? What about the officers over them, what would they do? The shame of it all is that our military forces are being put in a position of not knowing if they are being used as political pawns and, in the process, dying because of the mega rich and politically powerful forcing their agendas on the world. Sad state of affairs!

 

[Nightmare45]

As a vet, they will have to take my arms by force of arms, the little blue hats make great targets. PS: At my age I really don't give a crap what the UN wants a usless body of trash.