What is the limit of the right to keep and bear arms?

[Treo]

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Simple question where would you draw the line on the RKBA?

I believe that any firearm should be available to the general public, if you can afford an M2 knock yourself out. That said would you support that person’s right to mount it on their VW bug and drive around town?

I believe that any American flagged ocean going vessel should be able to purchase weapons suitable for self-defense Again, if you want an M2 go for it especially if you sail the Caribbean or the horn of Africa. I’d even go so far as to say let them get a deck gun but what would you say to SAMs or a helicopter gunship attached to the vessel?

I would probably draw the line at anything that wasn’t designed to be used against a point target (NBC) or weapons that are essentially booby traps (no claymores guys sorry) or any weapon that is significantly likely to produce collateral damage (Grenades)

So where are your limits? Am I wrong? If so, which way and why?
__________________

 

[Deserteagle]

My opinion, average Joe should not have:
Silencers, automatic weapons, machine guns, explosives.

We've also had some similar discussion here:
http://www.usacarry.com/forums/class-iii-nfa-weapons/17731-nfa-weapons-requirment-why.html

 

[Mojo57]

As usual I agree with deserteagle. I also think there should be limits on where you can carry acceptable firearms. And maybe that's the difference for me. I don't care one bit what anyone does on their own land or in their bedroom for that matter. But I draw the line with automatice weapons and other types in certain places. Quite frankly I think the majority of state laws are pretty reasonable sans Illinois and NYC and such.

 

[Axeanda45]

Hmmmm.

My opinion would draw the line at what one person could operate.... So that would rule out anything that needs say, an airplane or launchpad to be used... Like NBC type weapons and air to ground/air to air....


Crew weapons like cannon and mortar should be owned and manned by the community/village/town,etc...


Shoulder launched weapons, Grenades and Claymores, I honestly dont know how I would feel about others having them.... So if I dont want to trust others with that type, why or how could I justify having them myself? Perhaps those should also be classed with crew weapons?


As far as full auto (IMHO, they are just ammo wasters, but they DO have a valid use in firefights..) I absolutely consider a right under the 2nd Amendment WITHOUT the special permits/tax form bull.. (infringements) Same thing with silencers, EVERYONE should be able to have them without question...

As far as mounting something to your vehicle? Sure, just dont aim it at someone...... They might take offense and open a can on ya.. 'Jus sayin....

 

[Axeanda45]

Oh, and Treo? It is NOT a simple question, lol

 

[festus]

ICBM's and nuclear missile submarines should both be restricted...other than that if you can pass a background check...then you should be able to own it.

seriously...legal gun owners are not the problem and they know it. They just use every little incident to chip away at our rights.

I do not see a problem with the average Joe owning a machine gun or a silencer. The average Joe IS NOT a criminal. I do however see a problem with any illegal alien owning anything bigger than nail clippers. I also see a problem with foreign nationals obtaining firearms without becoming citizens, with full voting rights.

 

[gunnerbob]

I don't believe regular civilians should be authorized to own:

Explosives(grenades, claymores, etc) or mortars, RPGs, artillary, etc.

If said civilian requires explosives(dynamite) for a professional bussiness(demolition company), than yes, they should be authorized to own(WITH PROPER LICENSING/TRAINING).

Everything else is up for grabs! With proper licensing and training, provided by local law-enforcment that is. I see no problems with a collector owning M1 Thompsons, BARs, M60s, AKs, etc. I see no problems with a guy like me owning a full-auto weapon either... with proper licensing/training.

Here's why I see no problem with a regular guy like me owning a full-auto weapon. Just b/c I own said weapon, I will not decide to rob a bank or hose down a school. If a bad guy has decided to do those things... he's got the full-auto thing covered already, and he isn't getting it legally.

As to why a regular guy like me "needs" a full-auto? I don't, I just want one. Just like none of us "need" an AR15, AK, semi-auto 12ga, etc, etc. We don't "need" these weapons, but we'd love to have 'em.

The argument of "need" is null and void IMO. I can lay down an argument as to why civilians don't "need" almost anything. Like: You don't need that big @ss truck b/c you don't haul anything do you? Or: I don't need three motorcycles b/c I can only ride one at a time! Or: I don't need a motorcycle that goes 160mph b/c no road in America allows for that speed!

I could go on and on. The firearms we should be authorized to own have nothing to do with "need". Just want, and I want 'em ALL!

 

[SGB]

Restricting arms only keeps those arms out of the hands of honest people.

 

[Treo]

If I’m an otherwise law abiding citizen why do I need a license to own a fully automatic weapon? I’ve carried FA weapons before and I wasn’t overcome by an urge to go on a crime spree with them. There are about 100,000+ fully automatic weapons out there now and I don’t see the owners hosing down the local Wal-Mart.

Personally I think an American citizen should be able to walk into Wal Mart and purchase any fully automatic weapon they choose.
Silencers too.

 

[Iam2Taz]

As noted above, the average person should be able to own about anything he/she wants and can afford.
Silencers? I have watched a guy use one to hunt deer, hogs and prairie dogs. Very effective. Although, not as "silent" as you think.

I love things that go bang!

 

[gunnerbob]

If I’m an otherwise law abiding citizen why do I need a license to own a fully automatic weapon? I’ve carried FA weapons before and I wasn’t overcome by an urge to go on a crime spree with them. There are about 100,000+ fully automatic weapons out there now and I don’t see the owners hosing down the local Wal-Mart.

Personally I think an American citizen should be able to walk into Wal Mart and purchase any fully automatic weapon they choose.
Silencers too.

While I may agree that it'd be really cool to just be able to walk into Walmart and pick up an M240B, I understand that isn't practical, nor wise. When new shooters are introduced to firearms you train them right? I hope so. Fully automatic weapons come with a different level of respect required to not hurt yourself and others. That's why we spent so much time at the range learning how to operate our weapons, so we don't hurt the wrong people.

Now, I understand you can kill somebody just as dead with a .22lr single shot pistol as you can with 800rpm from an M4... I get that. But, the potential for mishaps increase with the firepower on tap. Fully automatic M1 Thompsons don't behave like a semi-auto one... fully automatic M4s don't behave like semi-auto AR15s. The lethal force on tap from fully-automatic weapons deserves an increased level of training required from qualified people.

Even I don't want that punk looking kid with those really tight "emo" pants being able to go to Wally world and pick up 550rpm of .45acp without knowing he went through at least basic firearms training. Like the kind you had to go through in BMT, or CST, or whatever you went through to be trained on your weapons.

Of course, it should fall to parents to educate their children about firearms safety... but what if someone doesn't get involved with firearms until adulthood? Well, he should have friends for that.... ah, he's a loner. Then he can go to the local law enforcement to be trained can't he(or licensed trainer, licensed by LE).

I'd love for myself to able to go pick up a full-auto M240B or RPK without the hassle of licenseing or training, but it's not really the smart thing to do for everybody.

IMO

 

[6shootercarry]

Ask the supreme court... LOL... Being the experts that they are, there will be varying answers... Then wait and see if Obama gets reelected and perhaps one of the current judges retires or dies.. If it's Alito, Roberts, Scalia, Kennedy, or Thomas and Obama seats a judge, the answer will change again...

Arms... Covers it pretty well...

 

[Deserteagle]

I'd love for myself to able to go pick up a full-auto M240B or RPK without the hassle of licenseing or training, but it's not really the smart thing to do for everybody.

I as well would love to own any weapon or explosive out there, but I dont trust other people with them.

Imagine a negligent explosion rather than a negligent discharge.

 

[Axeanda45]

How many "accidents" and or "incidents" was there with full-auto firearms 60 yrs ago? I know there was a problem during prohibition, but that is a totally different problem caused by intrusive government meddling....(and the resulting organized crime problems)

Why are there no problems with the what, 100k full autos that ARE out there?

Oh, Desert? I personally wouldnt trust you with a BB GUN....

 

[Stan45]

As I read some of these comments I’m a little worried as to where this country is going.
Just read what our Founding Fathers wrote.
I will say for those who understand I will watch your back.

What ever you apply to the 2nd Amendment you could apply to the 1st Amendment about free speech so lets see what some have said.
My opinion, average Joe should not have: ______ (add what you want to about free speech)
I also think there should be limits on where ______ (add what you wish about free speech)
I don't believe regular civilians should be authorized to own:_______ (making a list of what ways you can not send out free speech)
… but I dont trust other people with them. (I just do not trust other people speaking)

Here are some that get it
seriously...legal gun owners are not the problem and they know it. A PATRIOT
Restricting arms only keeps those arms out of the hands of honest people. A PATRIOT
Personally I think an American citizen should be able to walk into Wal Mart and purchase any fully automatic weapon they choose. Silencers too. A PATRIOT
…should be able to own about anything he/she wants and can afford. A PATRIOT
Arms... Covers it pretty well... A PATRIOT
These that get it are our modern day Thomas Jefferson’s, James Madison’s, George Washington’s

If we put any restriction on one of them we can put restrictions on the others. Do you what more government control? Free men do not.

Right to bear arms
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
What is it about INFRINGE that we do not understand?

What Arms may be kept. -- The arms intended by the Constitution are such as are suitable for the general defence of the community against invasion or oppression, and the secret carrying of those suited merely to deadly individual encounters may be prohibited.

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peacable citizens, from keeping their own arms; or to raise standing armies, unless necessary for the defense of the United States…. - Samuel Adams, Debates of the Massachusetts Convention of 1788

 

[buddy]

As I read some of these comments I’m a little worried as to where this country is going.
Just read what our Founding Fathers wrote.
I will say for those who understand I will watch your back.

What ever you apply to the 2nd Amendment you could apply to the 1st Amendment about free speech so lets see what some have said.
My opinion, average Joe should not have: ______ (add what you want to about free speech)
I also think there should be limits on where ______ (add what you wish about free speech)
I don't believe regular civilians should be authorized to own:_______ (making a list of what ways you can not send out free speech)
… but I dont trust other people with them. (I just do not trust other people speaking)

Here are some that get it
seriously...legal gun owners are not the problem and they know it. A PATRIOT
Restricting arms only keeps those arms out of the hands of honest people. A PATRIOT
Personally I think an American citizen should be able to walk into Wal Mart and purchase any fully automatic weapon they choose. Silencers too. A PATRIOT
…should be able to own about anything he/she wants and can afford. A PATRIOT
Arms... Covers it pretty well... A PATRIOT
These that get it are our modern day Thomas Jefferson’s, James Madison’s, George Washington’s

If we put any restriction on one of them we can put restrictions on the others. Do you what more government control? Free men do not.

Right to bear arms
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
What is it about INFRINGE that we do not understand?

What Arms may be kept. -- The arms intended by the Constitution are such as are suitable for the general defence of the community against invasion or oppression, and the secret carrying of those suited merely to deadly individual encounters may be prohibited.

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peacable citizens, from keeping their own arms; or to raise standing armies, unless necessary for the defense of the United States…. - Samuel Adams, Debates of the Massachusetts Convention of 1788

It sounds like you do not want any restrictions on speech or arms. Or am I reading you incorrectly?

 

[Deserteagle]

Oh, Desert? I personally wouldnt trust you with a BB GUN....

I personally think you eat your own feces and I do not have enough trust in you to believe otherwise.

 

[nogods]

As I read some of these comments I’m a little worried as to where this country is going.
Just read what our Founding Fathers wrote.
I will say for those who understand I will watch your back.

What ever you apply to the 2nd Amendment you could apply to the 1st Amendment about free speech so lets see what some have said.
My opinion, average Joe should not have: ______ (add what you want to about free speech)
I also think there should be limits on where ______ (add what you wish about free speech)
I don't believe regular civilians should be authorized to own:_______ (making a list of what ways you can not send out free speech)
… but I dont trust other people with them. (I just do not trust other people speaking)

Apples and cigars comparison.

The rights secured by the bill of rights are not based on parallel principles. Each represents a distinct concept often times expressed in vague terms to assuage the competing political adversaries of the day. Moreover, the Founders expected those principles to evolve. They didn't expect "arms" to mean only those arms in existence at the time just as they didn't mean "religion" to include only those religions at existence at the time.

 

[concealandopen]

Theoretically, there should be no limits. If you can afford them, buy whatever you want. Keep them safe use or not but safely. Actually, I think if you can afford them, you can get almost anything now can't you. They just won't let you pull into a slip in Nice, France with a deck gun, I'm supposing.

 

[gunnerbob]

As I read some of these comments I’m a little worried as to where this country is going.
Just read what our Founding Fathers wrote.
I will say for those who understand I will watch your back.

What ever you apply to the 2nd Amendment you could apply to the 1st Amendment about free speech so lets see what some have said.
My opinion, average Joe should not have: ______ (add what you want to about free speech)
I also think there should be limits on where ______ (add what you wish about free speech)
I don't believe regular civilians should be authorized to own:_______ (making a list of what ways you can not send out free speech)
… but I dont trust other people with them. (I just do not trust other people speaking)

Here are some that get it
seriously...legal gun owners are not the problem and they know it. A PATRIOT
Restricting arms only keeps those arms out of the hands of honest people. A PATRIOT
Personally I think an American citizen should be able to walk into Wal Mart and purchase any fully automatic weapon they choose. Silencers too. A PATRIOT
…should be able to own about anything he/she wants and can afford. A PATRIOT
Arms... Covers it pretty well... A PATRIOT
These that get it are our modern day Thomas Jefferson’s, James Madison’s, George Washington’s

If we put any restriction on one of them we can put restrictions on the others. Do you what more government control? Free men do not.

Right to bear arms
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
What is it about INFRINGE that we do not understand?

What Arms may be kept. -- The arms intended by the Constitution are such as are suitable for the general defence of the community against invasion or oppression, and the secret carrying of those suited merely to deadly individual encounters may be prohibited.

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peacable citizens, from keeping their own arms; or to raise standing armies, unless necessary for the defense of the United States…. - Samuel Adams, Debates of the Massachusetts Convention of 1788

Without getting butt hurt... are you implying that b/c I believe some firearms require proper training and/or licensing I'm not a PATRIOT?

Stan, the statement I'm about to type is in no way enforceable... but I feel I need to say it for my own sake.

Don't ever doubt my patriotism sir, not for a second! How many months have you spent in Afghanistan? How many years have you spent in serving your country during the War on Terror? How many times have you been away from your Wife and children fighting a war? How many bullets have snagged near your head? How many rockets have you jumped in cover for? How many times have you watched American servicemen being loaded onto a C17 with the American flag drapped over their caskets? How many birthdays and Christmases have you missed b/c you were covered in sweat, dust, dirt, mud, and snow for months on end? How many times did you think this might be your last day? Hmmm?

I know I'm not right about a lot of things Stan, but my PATRIOTISM is something I know I've got right! I love my country, I sacrifice for her everyday!

I'm curious... what uniform did you put on today?