What is required to purchase a Rifle?


LoganB

New member
Ive been looking for awhile online and cant find the exact federal rule (or state rule) that states what must be satisfied in order to purchase a long arm. Im most interested in what type of identification is required. Should a state issued ID suffice? There is a local store (part of a very large chain) that is asking for proof of US citizenship by brining in a utility bill.

Racial Profiling?

Thoughts?

I could really use a link to the appropriate statute. Ive searched the Brady Bill and a couple others to no avail. Thanks!
 

festus

God Bless Our Troops!!!
What is required

In order to X-fer any firearm you must have it shipped to an FFL (the only exception is CMP...don't get me started.)
All you need is valid proof of ID (state DL) and a clean record. Fill out the dreaded instant check form and pay the IC fee.
This shuld get you what you need.
I have ordered Rifles from other companies and had them shipped to the FFL nearest me. Usually there is a small fee but at least you get what you want.
 

festus

God Bless Our Troops!!!
Avoid the big box stores that make life difficult

Ive been looking for awhile online and cant find the exact federal rule (or state rule) that states what must be satisfied in order to purchase a long arm. Im most interested in what type of identification is required. Should a state issued ID suffice? There is a local store (part of a very large chain) that is asking for proof of US citizenship by brining in a utility bill.

Racial Profiling?

Thoughts?

I could really use a link to the appropriate statute. Ive searched the Brady Bill and a couple others to no avail. Thanks!
They don't have the right to ask for a utility bill. That is Bunk. Do not shop at that store.
 

LoganB

New member
Well, youd think I would have found it by now, but Im looking at a legal cause of action for Racial Profiling under USC 1981. The store was walmart.

My only problem is that I still cant find a copy of state or Fed statute that explicitly states that a valid state issued ID should do.

Anybody have a statute number for me?

A copy of Walmart's gun sale policy would be clutch!
 

FN1910

New member
Interesting but since I haven't bought a long gun from a store in 45 years (my mother bought it for me then) I have never bothered with the restrictions for them. How would producing a utilty bill indicate citizenship? Something sounds very fishy and I doubt it is racial profiling but stupidity or a total misunderstanding instead. The only time I have ever heard of a utility bill being required is trying to show what school district you lived in. Certainly doesn't prove citizenship or age, the two requirements.
 
A lot of businesses use the utility bill to verify "residence" not necessarily "citizenship". By having a utility bill at a local address in your name, companies assume that you're a resident. I use the word "assume" because I have a couple of rental properties wehre I pay the utilities for the tenant. The bill comes directly to me and lists both a service address and billing address.

It may be simply a Wal-Mart company policy to sell only to local residents. I had the problem back in NV. They would not sell to a buddy of mine who was from out of state. My NV DL allowed me to purchase a rifle, but not my buddy. I would recommend checking out a local gun shop and ask them for the specifics regarding long gun purchases. As a FFL dealer, they should know both local and federal law and help you to determine if it was Wal-Mart policy, actual law, or possibly something else.



gf
 

tattedupboy

Thank God I'm alive!
Ive been looking for awhile online and cant find the exact federal rule (or state rule) that states what must be satisfied in order to purchase a long arm. Im most interested in what type of identification is required. Should a state issued ID suffice? There is a local store (part of a very large chain) that is asking for proof of US citizenship by brining in a utility bill.

Racial Profiling?

Thoughts?

I could really use a link to the appropriate statute. Ive searched the Brady Bill and a couple others to no avail. Thanks!

First of all, let me be the first to welcome you to USA Carry from here in Indiana. I hope you enjoy this site.

Next, as for purchasing firearms of any kind, whether long guns or handguns, I would think that the information you supply while filling out the paperwork should be proof enough of your citizenship. Furthermore, as far as I know, no state will knowingly issue identification to anyone who isn't a legal resident of the United States (not necessarily a citizen). As for the employee who requested proof of citizenship, I agree, that is bunk. I'm not sure if it was discrimination or if it was just honest ignorance, but in any event, it's clear that they did not know what they were talking about. If I were you, I would take my business somewhere else.
 

toreskha

Titles are un-American.
Walmart sucks. Go to a store that is friendly about guns and they won't jerk you around. They might have better prices too.
 

tattedupboy

Thank God I'm alive!
You can buy a used one from a private owner with no paperwork at all.

Even better. However, I would only recommend doing this from someone you know and trust. Doing this from someone you do not know could mean that the person is simply trying to pass off a stolen or illegal firearm on you, and if it is ever discovered, you would be the culprit. Just something to keep in mind.
 

mom of 3 angels

New member
From "Instructions to Transferor/Seller" on ATF form 4473 (the long ol' background check form) subsection 2:

"Sale of Firearms to Legal Aliens (Part 1): A buyer who is not a citizen of the United States must provide additional documentation (beyond a valid government-issued photo identification that contains the buyer's name, residence address, and date of birth) to establish that he or she has resided in a State continuously for at least 90 days immediately prior to the date of the sale. See definition 7. Examples of appropriate documents to establish State residency are utility bills from each of the last 3 months immediately prior to the sale or a lease agreement which demonstrates 90 days of residency immediately prior to the sale."

Definition 7:
"State of Residence: The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. (skipping some non related material here) . . . An alien who is legally in the United States is a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in the State and has resided in the State continuously for at least 90 ndays immediately prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm."

From Important Notices #4:
"Generally, 18 U.S.C 922 (the Brady Law) prohibits the shipment, transportation, receipt, or possession in or affecting interstate commerce of a firearm by one who: (skipping more non related material . . . ) has renounced his or her U.S. citizenship; is an alien illegally in the United States or a nonimmigrant alien; or is subject to certain restraining orders.

EXCEPTION 2: A nonimmigrant alien is not prohibited from purchasing, receiving, or possessing a firearm if the alien: (1) is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States; or (2) has received a waiver from the prohibition from the Attorney General of the United States."

Definitions #8:
"Nonimmigrant Alien: An alien in the United States in a nonimmigrant classification. The definition includes, in large part, persons traveling temporarily in the United States for business or pleasure, persons studying in the United States who maintain a residence abroad, and certain foreign workers. The definition does NOT include permanent resident aliens."

SO, if you are not a citizen of the US, but a legal alien, the store is in it's rights and actually required by the ATF to ask for additional proof of residency. If you are a resident of the US, none of the above references apply to you and you should only need a valid Drivers License or CWP with proof of age.

Hope that helps some.
 
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mom of 3 angels

New member
Even better. However, I would only recommend doing this from someone you know and trust. Doing this from someone you do not know could mean that the person is simply trying to pass off a stolen or illegal firearm on you, and if it is ever discovered, you would be the culprit. Just something to keep in mind.

In this situation (some have other opinions) as either buyer or seller I would get the contact information for the other party in case the ATF ever comes looking for that particular firearm (it was used in a crime, etc.) you can give them the information on where you got it or to whom you sold it.
 

NDS

New member
You can buy a used one from a private owner with no paperwork at all.

The above posts have given good advice about documenting a private firearm transfer. I usually make sure we trade driver's license information (including DL number) as that can provide the paper trail authorities may ask for in case the firearm needs to be tracked.

However, the private transfer with no paperwork does NOT apply in all states. I can do a private transfer here in NV no problem, but just a few miles away in CA all transfers must go through an FFL dealer. Make sure you follow the laws of your state in addition to Federal law.
 

2beararms

New member
Still don't know what state this took place in?

Mom's info on the 4473 states a lot. Here in South Florida it is now pretty standard to apply the "non-citizen" standards to everyone just to be safe.

WM may be doing the same thing where ever you are. That way when you present a DL they later can't be jammed up that you were a resident alien but they didn't get the paperwork even though you signed you were a citizen.

Just covering their ass perhaps so I would not worry about it.
 

LoganB

New member
Thanks for all the feedback.

This is in the Great State of Texas.


Ill look at some of the ATF stuff. I still havent found a particular piece of legislation that says specifically what is required to purchase a long arm (ie a Driver License, utility bill, etc).

I agree that the salesman shouldnt have asked for the utility bill, but rather than bring it directly under a USC 1981 cause of action (which would be tough to prevail on), I was hoping I could find the law that says whats required for purchase.

Thanks for all the feedback. If you have anything else, please feel free to share.
 

2beararms

New member
I sincerely doubt that you would have a cause of action.

Since the 4473 (the requirement to transfer a long gun) does list presentation of a utility bill as one of the possible additional presentations for a non-citizen, unless you presented some other form of proof of citizenship such a passport, I do not see where a store would be violating your rights to follow the non-citizen proceedure even as a citizen.

The courts have been pretty tough on employers, retailers, etc for not obtaining ABSOLUTE proof of citizenship and have pretty much said that saying I am a citizen and even signing it on a form is no longer enough.

Big companies like WalMart are willing to take the chance in offending you rather than take a chance with ATF. I think Texas stores think like Florida and California... it is way too much a chance and they train their clerks to always require the non-citizen requirements.

Don't like it, shop someplace else. Want to go for dicrimination ... hope you have a really packed wallet.
 

mom of 3 angels

New member
Another thing is an FFL dealer is not required to sell to anyone, regardless of what documentation they provide. There is no part of the process that says if a buyer provides documents A, B, and C, the dealer must transfer the firearm. My ATF guys told me that ultimately it is the dealer's decision to transfer the firearm to the buyer or not and even just not feeling right about it is justification to not complete the transfer/sale.
 

FN1910

New member
That is Bloomberg's justification in suing the gun dealers. His point was that even though the buyer provided all the documentaion the dealers should have read thier minds and known that it was a straw purchase therefore not sold the guns.

You are orrect that a dealer doesn't have to sell if it doesn't feel right according to the ATF. Then the ACLU and civil rights groups get involved.
 

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