What if from Hell...


festus

God Bless Our Troops!!!
As you are walking in to your favorite local grocery store you notice an armed robbery taking place inside as you are crossing the parking lot. Do you run away and take cover behind a dumpster, pole etc.? Do you proceed in and try to break things up? or...Do you just clothesline the guy as he comes out the door and hope for the best?

Have you called 911? Are you justified in your actions? after all you ain't inside yet? Are you in immediate danger? When the cops come who is going to be the one on the ground in cuffs? Are you going to act like a vigilante or a solid citizen?
 

Call 911. If it deteriorates to the point where the BG starts shooting innocent citizens then if I can do something I will. Other wise I am not going to start a shoot out and risk getting bystanders hurt or killed for someone else's money.
 
< Definitely not getting involved- I'll call in with details to 911, try to get a plate of the fleeing offender, and their direction of travel/anything else I can relay. Unless he starts executing people...

Waiting for the guy to come outside and taking him down at gunpoint is a good idea- at first thought. But what if he retreats back into the store he just robbed and holds hostages. You just turned a robbery into a SWAT style hostage situation.

Clothesline the guy? No way he's considered armed and i'm no bruce lee.
 
Ok. slight change-up: The store clerk who is on the receiving end of the BG's gun barrel is your spouse or kid. NOW, what do you do?
 
Empty my mag on him

Yeah, that's what I think, too, although it makes me slightly uneasy. For sure, our families are worth more to us than complete strangers, but is that just a way to value human life? That clerk is somebody's wife, sister, mother; shouldn't we step up for them, too?
 
Yeah, that's what I think, too, although it makes me slightly uneasy. For sure, our families are worth more to us than complete strangers, but is that just a way to value human life? That clerk is somebody's wife, sister, mother; shouldn't we step up for them, too?

Unfortunately I think we're all animals. I'd love to be able to help, but our society is so litigious that i'd either end up in criminal court, or civil court (likely both).

Self defense is a personal responsibility. I embrace that as it is my duty to protect myself, and my family from harm. Unfortunately, actions taken by me not acting in an official capacity are actions that I will have to deal with personally- IE: I'm paying the legal fees, and if I lose I'm going to prison.

It would haunt me for life if I were to see the situation occurring,have the means to stop it, and due to my inaction someone be hurt or killed. However, Unless/until the law stops favoring the criminals then I have no choice but to be a witness..

The government and the liberal politicians forced my hand in the matter. If I act I'm a vigilante, if I don't I'm a coward. At least this coward won't be a bankrupt (legal fees) prisoner.
 
Ok. slight change-up: The store clerk who is on the receiving end of the BG's gun barrel is your spouse or kid. NOW, what do you do?

This very thing actually happened in my family.
(4BG's; 4GG's; 2guns; 2BG's shot; NO GG's injured)

My Answer:
Depends?
#1- Attitude/demeanor of ALL involved; especially the BG!
#2- Do you have a "SAFE" shot?
#3- Do you "Absolutely" KNOW who ALL the players are? (GG's and BG's)
AND;
#4- Can you tell beyond a "Shadow of a doubt"; where "ALL" the BG's are? ("Inside" and "Outside" the store?)



The main difference here?
1- Call 911 and let them know what's going on.
2- Maybe??? "Calmly" go inside to divide the BG's attentions IF you are sure you can do some good; and NOT make things worse.
(THIS is "absolutely" situational!)


"EVEN" in this situation it STILL may be best to be a good witness.
UNLESS the BG's start shooting; or "IF" a BG shooting someone seems inevitable.

(In my family's situation, there were guns behind two different counters. Another family member walking into the store allowed other family members to get to their guns. ALL family members new where the guns were AND how to use them. They were "practiced"; prepared AND lucky/blessed!)
 
Unfortunately I think we're all animals. I'd love to be able to help, but our society is so litigious that i'd either end up in criminal court, or civil court (likely both).

Self defense is a personal responsibility. I embrace that as it is my duty to protect myself, and my family from harm. Unfortunately, actions taken by me not acting in an official capacity are actions that I will have to deal with personally- IE: I'm paying the legal fees, and if I lose I'm going to prison.

It would haunt me for life if I were to see the situation occurring,have the means to stop it, and due to my inaction someone be hurt or killed. However, Unless/until the law stops favoring the criminals then I have no choice but to be a witness..

The government and the liberal politicians forced my hand in the matter. If I act I'm a vigilante, if I don't I'm a coward. At least this coward won't be a bankrupt (legal fees) prisoner.

Well-stated, CST. Viewed in this light, I am certainly willing to risk financial loss (legal fees) and loss of personal freedom (prison time) to save any member of my family. I might not be prepared to do so for someone I don't know, as much as that might haunt me after the fact. A most useful "what if" as it clarified my thinking on this situation.
 
This very thing actually happened in my family.
(4BG's; 4GG's; 2guns; 2BG's shot; NO GG's injured)

My Answer:
Depends?
#1- Attitude/demeanor of ALL involved; especially the BG!
#2- Do you have a "SAFE" shot?
#3- Do you "Absolutely" KNOW who ALL the players are? (GG's and BG's)
AND;
#4- Can you tell beyond a "Shadow of a doubt"; where "ALL" the BG's are? ("Inside" and "Outside" the store?)



The main difference here?
1- Call 911 and let them know what's going on.
2- Maybe??? "Calmly" go inside to divide the BG's attentions IF you are sure you can do some good; and NOT make things worse.
(THIS is "absolutely" situational!)


"EVEN" in this situation it STILL may be best to be a good witness.
UNLESS the BG's start shooting; or "IF" a BG shooting someone seems inevitable.

(In my family's situation, there were guns behind two different counters. Another family member walking into the store allowed other family members to get to their guns. ALL family members new where the guns were AND how to use them. They were "practiced" and prepared!)
This is a very good response and many of the varriables might be the same whether or not your kids or spouse are in the store. When we see a guy holding a firearm on someone behind the counter, we assume a BG is holding up a GG. However, what if the GG has gone to the rear of the store and come out to find the BG behind the counter? The positional roles are thus reversed. The best thing to do is to move slowly and know that you have everyone idenitified and take action only as a last resort after you have called for LE back-up. Be sure and describe yourself when you make the cal and stay on the line. LE officers are going to arrive on the scene looking for an armed person with a firearm. YOU are an armed person with a firearm.
 
Well-stated, CST. Viewed in this light, I am certainly willing to risk financial loss (legal fees) and loss of personal freedom (prison time) to save any member of my family. I might not be prepared to do so for someone I don't know, as much as that might haunt me after the fact. A most useful "what if" as it clarified my thinking on this situation.

I don't know about you guys, but I get pretty misty eyed when I hear about an innocent person being killed, raped, etc. So it would definitely affect me. If NM had immunity for people who used force to defend themselves/another there would be no question.
 
I don't know about you guys, but I get pretty misty eyed when I hear about an innocent person being killed, raped, etc. So it would definitely affect me. If NM had immunity for people who used force to defend themselves/another there would be no question.

Yeah, it's ironic (and pretty well f-d up, IMHO), that I would not hesitate to shoot and kill any BG in defense of anyone and be willing to endure the possible emotional trauma associated with taking a human life, BG or not. However, given potential criminal and civil actions, I'm much less willing to risk my family's financial postiion and my personal freedom to defend/save someone's daughter whom I don't know. This is not right and frankly, I'm not sure I could stand there and watch someone's kid get blown away by some a##hole, but there is a lot to consider and there shouldn't be.
 
While calling 911 pat my 1911 and back to my vehicle. Then decide if I should get out the Mossberg 500A in 12 GA with the first round a slug followed by 00, the R-25 in.308 or the AR-15 Varmint gun in .223 (would probably be on the far, far, far side of the parking lot to use the .308!). After all why take a short gun to a long gun fight? I would probably advise the dispatcher I was armed and also advise the dispatcher I will ground my long gun and stand with hands up as soon as I see the police pull into the parking lot.
Providing he is not shooting yet. If he starts shooting… that’s a new game plan.
Chang up an answer… if holding a gun on my wife… if she didn’t shoot him first… I am coming in noisy and as fast as possible. Draw attention and create confusion. Get as close as I can then shoot, probably until empty!
The answer to all police questions is… He was going to kill my wife. I didn’t want to do it. He forced me to do it. I will be happy to answer all you questions after I speak with a lawyer. And just keep repeating that.
If there is any way at all to avoid shooting that would be the first option.
 
I'm calling 911, and finding some good concealment to witness the incident. When the cops get there I hope I would be able to give them all the details about the crime and the suspect description.
Grab up my cell phone and start recording the video for evidence.



I've often rehearsed the event in my mind. What if I am present in the store and the BG walks in and yanks his piece, what would I do. I think if he is there to rob the place, I'm going to be a good witness. If he makes me believe he is going to kill the cashier or other employees, then I'm gonna have to draw if it is practical. I'd rather avoid all the legal issues if he's just going to grab the cash and run.



.
 
As you are walking in to your favorite local grocery store you notice an armed robbery taking place inside as you are crossing the parking lot.
Whether it's the Abbott & Costello, Bozo, Marx Brothers Gang, or Neil McCauley's crew doing the robbery, no cape, no boots, no tights, no big red S on my chest, and no badge in my wallet. I'm a good witness, I get to cover, and I call 9-1-1.

If I'm inside the store when the robbery goes down, I become one with the Cheetoes and observe. No sense getting shot while calling 9-1-1.

If I'm fortunate enough to be inside the store with one of the Gods of tactical combat, and you folks know who you are, then I lean over, and whisper in their ear, "At the whistle. Tweet." <BSEG>

If I'm crossing the parking lot with the wife and kids when one of the BGs heads out the door, my primary concern is ensuring the BG doesn't take an interest in us as some sort of "insurance policy".

If a loved one of mine is the hostage, well, then it would seem that I've been served up a s*** sandwich from which I have to wade into and take a bite.
 
Whether it's the Abbott & Costello, Bozo, Marx Brothers Gang, or Neil McCauley's crew doing the robbery, no cape, no boots, no tights, no big red S on my chest, and no badge in my wallet..

Dude, you leave your house with no cape, boots, tights, or Velcro 'S'?

What's going on here? :pleasantry:
 
Never place yourself in harms way!

You are defending you! Stay in the damn parking lot, be a good witness and defend your own life if you have to. A jackass with a drawn gun is not the time for bravado.

Being a good witness...you should be able to tell dress, height , car, plate, ethnicitity, number of BG's and direction of travel.

You should not go in the damn store and become part of the problem. You should not engage the BG's unless they engage you.

Your place is outside...remember you have not gone in yet. You know what is going on only because you don't have your head up your butt.

Calling 911 is your #1 priority
 

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