What happens if you injure a bystander?

[Bttbbob]

In my school we call this the MILLION DOLLAR SHOT.

 

[Mojo57]

Wow, the amount of mis-information in this thread is shocking. For example, LEO are entitled to qualified immunity unless one can prove he was acting outside the course and scope of his employment when the incident occurred. Thus, if a LEO is shooting to defend himself in a gun battle and hits a bystander I can almost assure you he will be entitled to qualified immunity. Whereas when the cops are beating someone the whole point of that is to prove he is outside the course and scope and thus not immune and subject to civil and criminal liability. These are not protections offered to non-government employees. Same can be said when a LEO kills someone in his cruiser.

I'm not gonna bother correcting the rest. But if you want insurance coverage for your own negligence investigate an umbrella policy. It may be of some use.

 

[wolf_fire]

I just read about the Philadelphia settlement for an unintended shooting of a bystander by police. City to pay $1.8 million in fatal shooting of bystander by a police officer. It reminded me of a similar case in Buffalo, NY where a woman was struck and killed by a police office while she was watching a gun battle from her apartment.

So what's the law in your state if a licensed firearm owner uses their weapon justifiably but a bystander is injured or killed?

There's a little lawyer sitting on every round you fire and you can be damned sure that the lawyer will hunt you down if you shoot someone "unintentionally". You may or may not get charged criminally, but you can bet your bippy that there will be a civil suit, like it sounds there was in this Philly case.

 

[wolf_fire]

wait what? what kind of insurance does one need if accidently shoot an innocent bystander?

An umbrella policy gives you liability insurance for a myriad of things that people can sue you for.

 

[wolf_fire]

Huh? Is this one of those "I'm going to load birdshot for the first shot, followed by 00 buck for the next 2 shots, then birdshot again, then a slug to finish them off" things?

K.I.S.S. Find an ammo that works for you and go with it. Be able to clearly explain why you picked that ammo in case you need to tell it to a jury. And yes, like the previous posts, try and hit what you aim at.

2-1 drill. Put two in center of mass.... if they are wearing armor, put one in the ocular cavity. Practice it practice it practice it

 

[Firefighterchen]

Wow, the amount of mis-information in this thread is shocking. For example, LEO are entitled to qualified immunity unless one can prove he was acting outside the course and scope of his employment when the incident occurred. Thus, if a LEO is shooting to defend himself in a gun battle and hits a bystander I can almost assure you he will be entitled to qualified immunity. Whereas when the cops are beating someone the whole point of that is to prove he is outside the course and scope and thus not immune and subject to civil and criminal liability. These are not protections offered to non-government employees. Same can be said when a LEO kills someone in his cruiser.

I'm not gonna bother correcting the rest. But if you want insurance coverage for your own negligence investigate an umbrella policy. It may be of some use.

Are you saying if a police officer is justified in shooting a perp and hits a bystander, then o well, qualified immunity. But if a civilian is justified in shooting in self defense, and hits a bystander, then they are responsible because they do not receive qualified immunity? Can you explain why that is?

 

[Shoobee]

There are many occasions when LEOs cannot take a shot, due to crowds. They are trained to know the difference.

If a civilian therefore takes a shot in a condition like that, you can bet there will at least be a civil suit if not also a negligence homicide/endangerment prosecution.

Make sure you get training for that CCW before you start blasting away.

 

[SGB]

Actually its better to load your mag safely, have hollow points loaded first followed by pre frag ammo that way if you don't take them down with the prefrag the Hollow points are there to insure you survive the encounter

What you call "prefrag" are junk ammunition, and what makes you think than when they fail (provided you even hit your antagonist) that you'll be alive long enough to get to the HP's in your mag?


........... as to the rest of this discussion the majority of people here are what lawyers call judgement proof, as in not having deep enough pockets that the suing attorney can ever reasonably collect a judgement against. Lawyers don't invest in civil cases they don't see a good chance of profiting from. Further few people have the financial resources to pay an attorney out of pocket to acquire a judgement they won't be able to collect upon.

Depending on your state's laws and political climate your primary concern would more likely be concerning criminal prosecution for negligence.

 

[ohio pat]

In police and even some civilian shootings the law suit that is filed can be professionally (you as a police officer) and personally (against you as a person).

The insurance you carry aids in the acquisition of expert witnesses. One that occurred in this area in the past several years involved a shooting in an area that changed from near a street light to a darker area with the good guy seeing a flash of a silver color in front of the suspect.

The flash of silver turned out not to be a pistol, the expert witness testified about the perception of the good guy when he saw the flash of silver color. The expert witness is someone that the defense attorney needs. It sure would help in a personal suit to have some insurance to cover his fee for testifying.

I encourage all of my students civilian and law enforcement to carry insurance over and above what they think they might need. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

There is never a never and never an always. Do what you can to protect yourself physically, emotionally and financially.

I am not a lawyer but a law enforcement officer of 50 years.

I wish you the best in these changing times.

 

[Firefighterchen]

There are many occasions when LEOs cannot take a shot, due to crowds. They are trained to know the difference.

It would seem they have the training, but comparatively law enforcement shoot bystanders far more than civilians.

If a civilian therefore takes a shot in a condition like that, you can bet there will at least be a civil suit if not also a negligence homicide/endangerment prosecution.

and if a Leo takes a shot in that scenario, why should they receive qualified immunity?

If SD situation A is exactly the same as SD situation B except one is a police officer, and the other a civilian, why should there be a difference?

 

[longslide10]

I have my CCW LEOSA insurance through the Hylant Insurance Company in Toledo, Ohio.
I pray that I will never have to use it but I pay my premiums yearly.

I have also gotten a local attorney approved by Hylant who is experienced in shooting cases. Just in case.

It is part of the FOP Packages. In an incident it will cover a preset amount of attorney fees for criminal or civil matters. They will not pay off on a settlement but at least my attorney would be able to file a motion for summary judgement if the facts were available. By paying the yearly premium he is on retainer.

I also carry additional insurance through private carriers one of them being through the NRA..

No one should be without coverage. As it has been said in this forum you are responsible for every bullet that leaves your firearm.

That is a really good idea and one not many even consider I bet. I have to wonder about the coverage that is offered via memberships to such organizations like United States Concealed Carry Association?

 

[longslide10]

You are responsible for the bullet you fire. Even if it hits no innocents. Expect to end up in court.

I am sure certain incidents wouldn't land someone in court such as shooting and killing a home invader. That would be a justifiable homicide and with the castle doctrine and stand your ground laws the possibility of being sued civilly has been removed. When out in public I guess it would depend highly on the circumstances.

 

[Shoobee]

I am sure certain incidents wouldn't land someone in court such as shooting and killing a home invader. That would be a justifiable homicide and with the castle doctrine and stand your ground laws the possibility of being sued civilly has been removed. When out in public I guess it would depend highly on the circumstances.

If the bullet leaves your home and penetrates someone else's home, I am sure they and their lawyers can make a good argument in court that you are responsible for the damages. That's why an AK is NOT a good HD weapon.

AK's however have proven to be outstanding for gunning down kids on any schoolyard. Stockton Calif proved this.

 

[CapGun]

If the bullet leaves your home and penetrates someone else's home, I am sure they and their lawyers can make a good argument in court that you are responsible for the damages. That's why an AK is NOT a good HD weapon.

AK's however have proven to be outstanding for gunning down kids on any schoolyard. Stockton Calif proved this.

Just wondering what you posted has to do with Longslide's post you quote.
Are you part of the "lamestream media" where every handgun is a Glock and every "assault rifle" is an AK.
be more imaginative, there must be other guns that are as good or better for the purpose you mentioned in Stockton.

 

[Firefighterchen]

If the bullet leaves your home and penetrates someone else's home, I am sure they and their lawyers can make a good argument in court that you are responsible for the damages. That's why an AK is NOT a good HD weapon.

AK's however have proven to be outstanding for gunning down kids on any schoolyard. Stockton Calif proved this.

Just wondering what you posted has to do with Longslide's post you quote.
Are you part of the "lamestream media" where every handgun is a Glock and every "assault rifle" is an AK.
be more imaginative, there must be other guns that are as good or better for the purpose you mentioned in Stockton.

As others have mentioned, he joined right around the time robbie and robby joined. He continuously gives horrible advice, hates glocks with a passion, and all around smells like a troll.

 

[Shoobee]

As others have mentioned, he joined right around the time robbie and robby joined. He continuously gives horrible advice, hates glocks with a passion, and all around smells like a troll.

FireChen, I believe your advice and comments are even more appropo of your own words above.

I don't know robbie or robby. Most likely they are your own sock puppets since you are trying so hard to deflect attention from yourself.

 

[Shoobee]

Just wondering what you posted has to do with Longslide's post you quote.
Are you part of the "lamestream media" where every handgun is a Glock and every "assault rifle" is an AK.
be more imaginative, there must be other guns that are as good or better for the purpose you mentioned in Stockton.

LongS seems to be convinced ... perhaps too convinced ... that discharging his weapon inside his home would not end him up in court.

I believe it could be otherwise.

Glocks and AK's are pretty worthless yes, unless you are an Arab with a vengence in mind.

When you can afford it, get a real gun.

 

[Firefighterchen]

FireChen, I believe your advice and comments are even more appropo of your own words above.

I don't know robbie or robby. Most likely they are your own sock puppets since you are trying so hard to deflect attention from yourself.

Please, quote when I have stated horrible advice. Just for the record, it was you who stated a loaded shotgun will blow someone's own face off, and all glocks (yes all 2.5 million of them worldwide) are worthless...now you are stating one of, if not the, most common rifle, which has as much role in changing human history as the AR, is also worthless? Again...please quote anything that I have stated that is as ludicrous as your advice. It would be nice if you knew how the term deflection worked as well.

LongS seems to be convinced ... perhaps too convinced ... that discharging his weapon inside his home would not end him up in court.

I believe it could be otherwise.

Glocks and AK's are pretty worthless yes, unless you are an Arab with a vengence in mind.

When you can afford it, get a real gun.

Troll. Try again.

 

[Shoobee]

Chen you sound like you fell off your donor-cycle once too many times and hit your head. It may be time for a volkswagen for you now.

And stop giving firemen a bad name. If you cant say something nice dont say anything at all.

 

[CapGun]

Hey Chen>>>>> Confucius didn't say it but he could have because it's good advice.
Never argue with idiots. You'll confuse the onlookers.:yu: