What do you think of how this guy handled being stoped for OC?

S&WM&P40

S&WM&P40

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Watch this one first (Part ONE)

PART TWO.

Did he handle it the right way? Or the wrong way?
 
There's a very fine line between asking too many questions and asserting oneself, especially when police are scared of you. It's a shame that Philadelphia police don't accept that law abiding citizens legally carry firearms. I don't know the statute, but Philadelphia does not currently allow open carry. If they have to comply with state laws, then they have not yet been legally "called out" on that issue. However, Pennsylvania tecnically has no specific law on open carry, so it is assumed that it is allowed, as it is not legally disallowed or legally allowed.
The Sargeant gets the award for the most F-bombs.
I personally make it a habbit to not talk about firearms with police officers I do not know, especially in New Jersey.

Do you know who made the recording?
It sounded like he made the recording, as it was discovered, but the recording continued, as I would have assumed that it would have been stopped by the police.
 
I think he handled it properly. I'd love to have the 1983 case on this one.

In fact, I just recently received a notice of Link Removed case through the WDPA federal distiect court (Philly is in the EDPA.) His lawyer should attend.

The LEO's were abusive and stupid. The comment that a "recoding" was against the law indicates how ignorant they all were.
 
father-of-three said:
There's a very fine line between asking too many questions and asserting oneself, especially when police are scared of you. It's a shame that Philadelphia police don't accept that law abiding citizens legally carry firearms. I don't know the statute, but Philadelphia does not currently allow open carry. If they have to comply with state laws, then they have not yet been legally "called out" on that issue. However, Pennsylvania tecnically has no specific law on open carry, so it is assumed that it is allowed, as it is not legally disallowed or legally allowed.
The Sargeant gets the award for the most F-bombs.
I personally make it a habbit to not talk about firearms with police officers I do not know, especially in New Jersey.

Do you know who made the recording?
It sounded like he made the recording, as it was discovered, but the recording continued, as I would have assumed that it would have been stopped by the police.
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To me it sounded like they tried to smash the recorder after they found it. It sounded like they threw it hard onto the ground a few times.
 
The Philadelphia PD has a well-established reputation for acting like the East German Border Police.:angry:
I am a former native of Phila. My dad was in the Phila.PD for 19 years.
 
I am unsure of how the recording continued if the recorder was broken, though I did hear Sargeant F-Bomb say that they could use the recording to prove that he did not cooperate. At that point, I went back and listend to the beginning again. He questioned being called "Junior," (not a big deal) and he may have asked a few too many questions when he was being directed at gunpoint, but like I said before, there's a very fine line. All in all, he was more professional that Sargeant F-Bomb.
 
father-of-three said:
I am unsure of how the recording continued if the recorder was broken,
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though I did hear Sargeant F-Bomb say that they could use the recording to prove that he did not cooperate. At that point, I went back and listend to the beginning again. He questioned being called "Junior," (not a big deal) and he may have asked a few too many questions when he was being directed at gunpoint, but like I said before, there's a very fine line. All in all, he was more professional that Sargeant F-Bomb.
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I don't think it was. Sounded like they tried to break it but failed and/or gave up.

Some videos the police ask how to shut the recording device off. If they fail to find the red button that says RECORD they threaten to smash it.

It has always blown my mind at how ignorant of the law police officers are. I know they could not possibly know every single law on the books. But a phone call to the departments legal department and or the DA's office, could confirm that John Q public is right!

Instead of taking the time to find out if what John Q says is true they feel the need to make up their own laws on the spot. To support their point of views on the matter.

John Q stands up for his rights and the officer, not wanting to admit he/she is wrong beats on their chest and says "Me right you wrong." In the end you end up with a scene from the flim training day. The officer says to the lawful John Q "You wanna go to jail? Or you wanna go home?"
 
He was smart in asserting his fifth amendment right, as they were trying to figure out the second amendment right!

Police can get sneaky like that when they offer that deceitful "Home versus jail" option, only to get a statement from the person that sends them to jail anyway.
 
Holy ****, that is outrageous. This god damned cop doesn't know ****.

If this wasn't a cop, the OC'er in this vid could ******* shoot him legally in self defense.

These officers of the law don't know a god damned thing about the law. He is allowed to open carry because he had a permit. OC is prohibited in Philly unless you have a CWP.

I would love to hear that these pricks got the **** sued out of them personally.

The thing that pissed me off about cops challenging OC is that cops OC themselves. They aren't super heroes, they are public servants and being agents of government, unelected, they are deserving of even more suspicion than usual. When they are pointing a gun at the head of an innocent civilian they are the law, they supersede the law with bullying and violence.

This cop is just pissed because someone isn't afraid of him.
 
T o be honest...................

I think I would be moving out of there ASAP!

And if we don't respect that we are Cop Haters?

Amazing!
 
He's lucky

He's luck he didn't get his ass shot. Obviously he was trolling for issues. 1) he's open carry in Philadelphia no less AND 2) he carries a recorder on him at all times? (his words).

Sounds like a mix of paranoia and machismo. Bad combination in any event.

Some Philly cop has a service pistol leveled at his chest and he tries to 'educate' the cop about some (to the cop) obscure statute. And I don't care what the tone of his voice, in that scenario, he was being argumentative. In that moment, I don't know a single LEO that wouldn't act the same as these LEO's did. Shut down a possible lethal situation then cover the bases. SOP

Was he legally in his right to be OC? Don't know. I'd have to read the statute, but having lived in Philly area for 18 years, unless I wanted trouble, I wouldn't do it. And before everyone spouts off about "It's his Constitutional right" His 'rights' won't do squat for his widow and orphaned kids (assuming he's married with kids) but you get my point.

Just because you CAN do a thing does not mean you MUST do a thing.
 
S&WM&P40 said:
I know they could not possibly know every single law on the books.
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Why not? They expect YOU to.

Walk into the Chipotle at the corner of Center Ridge Rd. and West 210th in Rocky River, Ohio with your firearm partially exposed when there's a cop in there. Make sure you don't have a valid OH CHL or recognized equivalent.

When he detains you, tell him you "didn't know" that it was unlawful in Ohio to:
  1. Carry concealed without a CHL or without a recognized equivalent.
  2. Carry into a liquor serving establishment.
YOU have an ABSOLUTE duty to know and obey the law. How can a "trained" LEO have ANY lesser duty to do so, ESPECIALLY when he's depriving someone of their liberty, and or threatening their life?

This "too many laws for the cop to know" nonsense has to be RUTHLESSLY crushed everywhere we encounter it.
 
walt629 said:
He's luck he didn't get his ass shot. Obviously he was trolling for issues. 1) he's open carry in Philadelphia no less AND 2) he carries a recorder on him at all times? (his words).
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  1. Philadelphia doesn't have gun laws. By state law, they CAN'T have gun laws, ANY gun laws. That's settled law, PERIOD. It's even part of PA LEOs' annual training.
  2. It's legal for him to open carry in Philadelphia, anywhere where it would be lawful anywhere else in PA. The only limitation is that he MUST have either a PA LTCF or recognized equivalent.
  3. I carry a voice recorder EVERY time I carry, and usually when I'm not carrying. It is the norm for LEOs to either not know or not care about the law, especially regarding CCW or open carry. It is also not uncommon for them to engage in "flights of fancy" in official reports. Having and using a voice recorder where lawful to do so ensures that there are negative consequences to any propensity for "creative writing" exercises. Never being allowed to testify under oath constitutes a "negative consequence"... perhaps a career ending one.
  4. Nobody has to like the law, merely obey it. There's no exception for LEOs.
  5. YOU have an absolute duty to know and obey the law. An LEO may not like it, but he has the same duty. There's utterly no reason not to hold him to that duty. Annual MPOETC training means that the cop who claims he "doesn't know" that open carry is lawful, is either lying or incompetent to serve in that position. Either one should get him a one way ticket to the unemployment line.
 
Up to 3 minutes Who in the hell argues w/ a cop that is pointing a gun at them? Comply w/ their comands invoke your right to remain get a lawyer and sue their asses.

4 minutes he invokes his Miranda and keeps talking once you invoke Miranda you shut up

essentially anything he said after that was wrong IMO
 
Deanimator said:
  1. Philadelphia doesn't have gun laws. By state law, they CAN'T have gun laws, ANY gun laws. That's settled law, PERIOD. It's even part of PA LEO's' annual training.
  2. It's legal for him to open carry in Philadelphia, anywhere where it would be lawful anywhere else in PA. The only limitation is that he MUST have either a PA LTCF or recognized equivalent.
  3. I carry a voice recorder EVERY time I carry, and usually when I'm not carrying. It is the norm for LEO's to either not know or not care about the law, especially regarding CCW or open carry. It is also not uncommon for them to engage in "flights of fancy" in official reports. Having and using a voice recorder where lawful to do so ensures that there are negative consequences to any propensity for "creative writing" exercises. Never being allowed to testify under oath constitutes a "negative consequence"... perhaps a career ending one.
  4. Nobody has to like the law, merely obey it. There's no exception for LEO's.
  5. YOU have an absolute duty to know and obey the law. An LEO may not like it, but he has the same duty. There's utterly no reason not to hold him to that duty. Annual MPOETC training means that the cop who claims he "doesn't know" that open carry is lawful, is either lying or incompetent to serve in that position. Either one should get him a one way ticket to the unemployment line.
Click to expand...

And all that having been said, none of it does a darned bit of good if the dumb ass gets shot by a cop because he has an exposed weapon and he refuses to follow the LEO's commands.

Nothing in my reply said The guy didn't have the RIGHT to open carry, I simply said the guy didn't have the SMARTS to open carry. Lancaster, Reading, Columbia, Harrisburg (maybe) open carry would be no problem in Penna. But Philadelphia and Pittsburgh you are asking for trouble.

Luckily for this guy, the initial response LEO called for back up and the back up LEO could diffuse the situation. Under the first contact situation, if the guy sneezed, literally sneezed, he could be dead right now. His right for open carry wouldn't do any good for him, would it?

Just because you CAN do a thing does not mean you MUST do a thing.

Common sense is not very common any more.
 
walt629 said:
And all that having been said, none of it does a darned bit of good if the dumb ass gets shot by a cop because he has an exposed weapon and he refuses to follow the LEO's commands.

Nothing in my reply said The guy didn't have the RIGHT to open carry, I simply said the guy didn't have the SMARTS to open carry. Lancaster, Reading, Columbia, Harrisburg (maybe) open carry would be no problem in Penna. But Philadelphia and Pittsburgh you are asking for trouble.

Luckily for this guy, the initial response LEO called for back up and the back up LEO could diffuse the situation. Under the first contact situation, if the guy sneezed, literally sneezed, he could be dead right now. His right for open carry wouldn't do any good for him, would it?

Just because you CAN do a thing does not mean you MUST do a thing.

Common sense is not very common any more.
Click to expand...
I oc in small towns with a recorder also because you never know when a LEO or BG will tackle you from behind.

I have never gone into the cc forum and insulted cc'ers as being "paranoia and machismo... dumb ass" or "didn't have the SMARTS" why do you come here and insult?
 
OC really c'mon

I can see both side, but not all the way through.
Question: why argue with LEO?
Not the best idea.
Question: why record your whole day?
Do you hope for trouble or are you just staying in the wrong place too long?
Question: why not comply with the LEO?
IMO, comply, answer without arguing and this MIGHT have been less than front page news or jail.
Again, IMO just do what is right.
Someone said 'Just because it is leagal does not mean it is right'
Its like going to the beach wearing a full snow suit, do you really want the added attention?

This is not to hurt or slander anyone, just think outside the holster once in a while.
 
Personally I think we should do away with concealed carry and instead allow only open carry. I can expound on the reason later.

To be sure, the people like this young man sometimes have personality issues that distinguish themselves from the rest of the crowd, and not always in a good way.

But they are the very people who challenge us and our government in peaceful ways that advance personal liberty. The Rosa Parks', the Gregory Lee Johnson's, and even the Fred Phelps' of the world are the ones that keep the rest of us from falling asleep at the wheel of this ship of freedom we are ridding on.
 
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