What about nursing homes?

[AndeyHall]

I was reading the SC laws over today and read this...

(10) hospital, medical clinic, doctor’s office, or any other facility where medical services or procedures are performed unless expressly authorized by the employer.

...as of the places you cannot carry. I work at a nursing home and, although our employee handbook prohibits carrying of any weapons, can family members or visitors carry if there are no signs or does this law pertain to nursing homes also?

 

[wolf_fire]

I'm not a lawyer, but the first word in that building is 'nursing'. Therefore, medical services are performed there routinely. According to the law you quoted, it would seem that nursing care facilities would fall into their category of places not authorized for carry. I could be wrong, and I would not trust your legal advice coming from this forum.

 

[melloyello]

A nursing home, retirement home is colloquial for an assited living facility or rest home.

The facility does not perform actual medical services, i.e. you can't go there for a check up, residents have doctors on call and onsite doctor visits.
As an assisted living facility you sign a lease for assisted living and maybe assisted care and are therefore residents.

I would consider it the same as an hoteling situation with addition services if purchased.

 

[Firefighterchen]

A nursing home, retirement home is colloquial for an assited living facility or rest home.

The facility does not perform actual medical services, i.e. you can't go there for a check up, residents have doctors on call and onsite doctor visits.
As an assisted living facility you sign a lease for assisted living and maybe assisted care and are therefore residents.

I would consider it the same as an hoteling situation with addition services if purchased.

A nursing home, rehabilitation center, and assisted living homes are not the same.

Nursing home and rehab centers routinely do medical services. Catheter replacements. Drug applications. Etc. Most people in nursing homes and rehab centers do not stay permanently. Those few that do stay permanently wouldn't live long alone. These facilities will always have a few nurses on staff, or even medical assistants.

Assisted living homes are those that would probably do fine on their own but choose to stay in the homes. They don't always have nurses on staff either. Unless the person wants their medications taken care of, out even have any staff involved at all in their lives, they are free to do as they please. Many times I would transport an assisted living resident and the staff has nothing to do with the appointment.

I don't know what is implied in the law...but if an assisted living home has no signage or rules against it, I don't see it breaking the law.

Nursing homes I would consider an extension of a hospital.

 

[AndeyHall]

A nursing home, rehabilitation center, and assisted living homes are not the same.

Nursing home and rehab centers routinely do medical services. Catheter replacements. Drug applications. Etc. Most people in nursing homes and rehab centers do not stay permanently. Those few that do stay permanently wouldn't live long alone. These facilities will always have a few nurses on staff, or even medical assistants.

Assisted living homes are those that would probably do fine on their own but choose to stay in the homes. They don't always have nurses on staff either. Unless the person wants their medications taken care of, out even have any staff involved at all in their lives, they are free to do as they please. Many times I would transport an assisted living resident and the staff has nothing to do with the appointment.

I don't know what is implied in the law...but if an assisted living home has no signage or rules against it, I don't see it breaking the law.

Nursing homes I would consider an extension of a hospital.

Yeah I kinda had the same idea. The difference between a nursing home and assisted living is the "skilled nursing" staff. We also have a large rehab department.

I would like a bit of clarification on the law though because although we have skilled nursing, we don't do anything that a lot people don't do on their own at home...

 

[Firefighterchen]

Yeah I kinda had the same idea. The difference between a nursing home and assisted living is the "skilled nursing" staff. We also have a large rehab department.

I would like a bit of clarification on the law though because although we have skilled nursing, we don't do anything that a lot people don't do on their own at home...

You will have to speak with a lawyer or even a doctor for that. I gave my opinion...and there will be a million different other opinions.

 

[wolf_fire]

^^^ what he said.

 

[melloyello]

The four different assisted living facilites my family have used all had nursing care as part of the facility offerings.
These facilities had different wings ranging care from minimal (daily check-ins) up to 24 hour licensed care (CNA to RNs, no Doctors)
The 24 hour care section counted beds for patients
The areas counted rooms/apartments for residences.

Are they residents or patients?

If they are residents with legal possesion of the property then I would think Section 16-23-20 should apply.

 

[nca_mm]

Can't carry in nursing homes, as medical procedures are performed in 'em.

 

[AndeyHall]

Can't carry in nursing homes, as medical procedures are performed in 'em.

All the medical procedures that are performed at nursing homes are also performed in people's homes on a regular basis as well. Does this mean if I'm giving myself prescription medication, or or giving myself an insulin shot, or putting in/taking out a catheter on myself (just hurts to think about, but somehow people do it), then I can't carry in my home as well? Or is it only considered a medical procedure if it's done by a CNA, nurse, or doctor of some sort?

 

[Firefighterchen]

All the medical procedures that are performed at nursing homes are also performed in people's homes on a regular basis as well. Does this mean if I'm giving myself prescription medication, or or giving myself an insulin shot, or putting in/taking out a catheter on myself (just hurts to think about, but somehow people do it), then I can't carry in my home as well? Or is it only considered a medical procedure if it's done by a CNA, nurse, or doctor of some sort?

Being as you work in a nursing home, seeing people do these procedures regularly, and seeing the side of life where people do these procedures at home, has given a biased view what you consider normal.

That's not a bad thing at all.

I take care of my family much more than someone without medical experience. I've sutured myself and family. Even things such as splints seem normal to me. Stuff that most people would go to the hospital for I can take care of pretty well myself. That doesn't mean it's a normal household though, as normal as I feel it is.

Some people can't even take care of a bloody nose without going to the hospital.

Again though, I see the big difference between a nursing home and an assisted living home or normal home, is how well would the person be able to take care of themselves alone? Even just taking NTG could be too much for someone in a nursing home, which is done regularly at home.

Yes I would definitely say a procedure done by an CNA, EMT, Paramedic, RN, MA, or MD etc would put it into a higher level of care automatically (especially legally). A nursing home always uses at least a CNA level to do anything.

You should see if your work has a medical business license of some sort. That would clear things up a bit.

 

[melloyello]

I thought in South Carolina that only medical practitioners are licensed to perform medical procedures for the public, i.e. MD, DDS, APN. As for CNA, MA, EMT, LPN, RN, etc they provide health and medical care, however, they can perform medical procedures under the supervision and direction of an MD.

 

[AndeyHall]

I thought in South Carolina that only medical practitioners are licensed to perform medical procedures for the public, i.e. MD, DDS, APN. As for CNA, MA, EMT, LPN, RN, etc they provide health and medical care, however, they can perform medical procedures under the supervision and direction of an MD.

Never heard that before but I'm not saying it couldn't be true. I'd have to look into it.

 

[melloyello]

Never heard that before but I'm not saying it couldn't be true. I'd have to look into it.

I spoke to my wife(RN), sister-in-law(RN) and 2 brothers-in-law(EMT) and they said the same thing, exception was emergencies.
They also referred me to Nurse Practice Act, which may be slightly different from State to State,

SC Code of Law: SECTION 40-33-34. Performance of delegated medical acts; qualifications; protocols; prescriptive authorization; anesthesia care.

(B) An APRN is subject, at all times, to the scope and standards of practice established by the board-approved credentialing organization representing the specialty area of practice and shall function within the scope of practice of this chapter and must not be in violation of Chapter 47.

(C)(1) A licensed nurse practitioner, certified nurse-midwife, or clinical nurse specialist must provide evidence of approved written protocols, as provided in this section. A licensed NP, CNM, or CNS performing delegated medical acts must do so under the general supervision of a licensed physician or dentist who must be readily available for consultation.

Hope this helps...

 

[Firefighterchen]

I spoke to my wife(RN), sister-in-law(RN) and 2 brothers-in-law(EMT) and they said the same thing, exception was emergencies.
They also referred me to Nurse Practice Act, which may be slightly different from State to State,

SC Code of Law: SECTION 40-33-34. Performance of delegated medical acts; qualifications; protocols; prescriptive authorization; anesthesia care.

(B) An APRN is subject, at all times, to the scope and standards of practice established by the board-approved credentialing organization representing the specialty area of practice and shall function within the scope of practice of this chapter and must not be in violation of Chapter 47.

(C)(1) A licensed nurse practitioner, certified nurse-midwife, or clinical nurse specialist must provide evidence of approved written protocols, as provided in this section. A licensed NP, CNM, or CNS performing delegated medical acts must do so under the general supervision of a licensed physician or dentist who must be readily available for consultation.

Hope this helps...

Good info. General supervision with consultation available didn't mean the doctor had to be in the room, at least in Oregon for paramedics. EMT's were not allowed to do procedures even under supervision per protocols.

As long as medical control was available I could do medical procedures under a physicians orders, inside and outside of the hospital. That was written in our protocols. I'm wouldn't be surprised if SC protocols were similar.

 

[AndeyHall]

I spoke to my wife(RN), sister-in-law(RN) and 2 brothers-in-law(EMT) and they said the same thing, exception was emergencies.
They also referred me to Nurse Practice Act, which may be slightly different from State to State,

SC Code of Law: SECTION 40-33-34. Performance of delegated medical acts; qualifications; protocols; prescriptive authorization; anesthesia care.

(B) An APRN is subject, at all times, to the scope and standards of practice established by the board-approved credentialing organization representing the specialty area of practice and shall function within the scope of practice of this chapter and must not be in violation of Chapter 47.

(C)(1) A licensed nurse practitioner, certified nurse-midwife, or clinical nurse specialist must provide evidence of approved written protocols, as provided in this section. A licensed NP, CNM, or CNS performing delegated medical acts must do so under the general supervision of a licensed physician or dentist who must be readily available for consultation.

Hope this helps...

So is this supporting the fact that you CAN in fact carry at a nursing home?

 

[melloyello]

All the medical procedures that are performed at nursing homes are also performed in people's homes on a regular basis as well. Does this mean if I'm giving myself prescription medication, or or giving myself an insulin shot, or putting in/taking out a catheter on myself (just hurts to think about, but somehow people do it), then I can't carry in my home as well? Or is it only considered a medical procedure if it's done by a CNA, nurse, or doctor of some sort?

So is this supporting the fact that you CAN in fact carry at a nursing home?

I was trying to show who can and cannot perform medical procedures.

My statement was, if they are residents with legal possession of the property then I would think Section 16-23-20 should apply.
It is their home, their guest & family have rights to the property.

From South Carolina Senior Citizen's Handbook, "Residents’ Rights are guaranteed by the federal 1987 Nursing Home Reform Law and the S.C. Code Ann. § 44-81-20. These laws require that long-term care facilities “promote and protect the rights of each resident” and place a strong emphasis on individual dignity and self-determination. A person living in a longterm care facility maintains the same rights as an individual living in the community." .


SECTION 16-23-20. Unlawful carrying of handgun; exceptions.
(8) a person in his home or upon his real property or a person who has the permission of the owner or the person in legal possession or the person in legal control of the home or real property;