What 1st amendment--Police Detain and Draw Weapons on Student Activist

[BC1]

In the FREE States an empty holster is not a gun, so I have no idea why you're harping on the second amendment. And we absolutely do have a right to freedom of speech. Please cite us a relevant to this incident court precedent saying we don't.

And I'm still awaiting an answer to my original question.

If the campus says no empty holster, the weight of the law is behind them. If they say no provocative T-shirts the weight of the law is behind them. The campus is not a public place. It is a private university governed by its own internal rules, enforced by its own police. He's free to leave if he doesn't like the policy. Same at my home. There is no first or second amendment for you on my property. Thank God I live in a country where, as a property owner, my rights prevail.

You think you have freedom of speech? You want a citation? People v. Larry Flynt is a great place to start. His case was tried in Judge Manual Real's courtroom where Flynt openly argued with the judge. Judge Real ordered the bailiff to gag Flynt. Someone found a roll of tape and sealed Flynt's mouth. Flynt promised to behave, but when the tape was removed, he shouted obscenities at the judge. He was subsequently sentenced to fifteen months for this. Kids are sent home from school every day in America because of something written on a T-shirt. You want a citation? Aren't you aware this is occurring all around you?

Denial of first amendment rights happens thousands of times per day in American courts. Don't take my word for it. Test it. Life's a great teacher. Head on down to the local mall, setup your soapbox and start speaking about politics, Zimmerman or any other topic. Mall security will ask you to stop. Ignore them and keep talking. Police will arrive and ask you to stop. Keep on talking. You'll be arrested for trespass. Now, when you get to your arraignment keep talking. You'll be cited for criminal contempt. But keep talking at your trial. Refuse to shut-up and you'll get banged again for criminal contempt. In fact they might even tape your mouth like they did to Larry Flynt. Think about this hard. If you do this on my property I'll forceably remove you. Period. Constitutional rights? Good luck. Once again, I may not agree with all of this but I'm merely giving you the factual and historical state of the law in present day America.

BTW, since you called NY a "nanny state" I'd like you to show everyone your knowledge of NY law by stating exactly what you're referring to. This is no nanny state. CCW permit holders here have rights that far surpass most states. I want you to justify th statement. Don't deflect the question, answer it. You're gonna find your knowledge of NY is quite ignorant. But hey, it's fashionable to complain about NY.

And as far as my attitude? My family will attend nothing other than a top 100 college, not Wyoming. We're an Ivy League educated family. I would not have my own kids pick a university based on the second amendment. Now my question for you... what have you done to promote the second amendment? When you’ve handled as many permit applications as I have you can speak.

It would be ignorant sir to think you know me or my views.

 

[The_Outlaw]

There is no constiitutional right in America to carry a gun. .

.....................:nono:....................

 

[BC1]

.....................:nono:....................

Sorry to say it Outlaw but it is true. The Fed courts repeatedly rule this way. I don't like it either.

 

[Bikenut]

There is the "right" to bear arms... and, unless there has been legal language and/or dictionary rewrites to the contrary, the word "bear" includes carry ..and "arms" includes guns.

Now.... let us not confuse a "right" with "laws" ...

A "right" exists and always exists. It is.. period. However......

The ability to exercise that right has been, and is, controlled by "laws"...

It is the ... ability to exercise... where the law comes in....

But no matter how grievous the legal penalty is for exercising a right... the right itself... still exists.

So yes, we have the "right" to carry a gun... but we also will likely suffer penalties for exercising that right by running afoul of ... laws... enacted by those who want to... control.

For example... we have the "right" to bear arms but the State has passed a law that says if we exercise that right by bearing an arm concealed we must first have a State issued "permit"... and the State came up with that law for one reason and one reason only... to control who is "allowed" to carry a hidden gun.

The "right" is the right to carry a gun... the control of the ability to exercise that right by carrying a concealed gun without penalty is the law that requires a permit.

The same can be said of the right to free speech... we have the right to say anything we want... but there are laws that control who gets to say what where when.. and even in what manner .. without penalty.

And I even agree with the laws that assess penalties to those who cause harm to others while exercising a right (bear arms/free speech/any right) as long as the laws assess penalties for the harm done.. not penalties for the exercising of the right.

So yes... we have all of our "rights" ... and we will always have them... but the legal penalties assessed by those who want to control who is allowed to do what/when/where might eventually become so heinous it will be next to impossible to actually exercise those rights.

 

[SGB]

If the campus says no empty holster, the weight of the law is behind them. If they say no provocative T-shirts the weight of the law is behind them.

Please post the laws making what you've posted above to be illegal acts otherwise I have to call BS. College policy isn't LAW.

The campus is not a public place.

But it is open to the public.

It is a private university governed by its own internal rules, enforced by its own police.

So you're claiming those were Private Police? Private Universities can pass private laws, enforced by private police, prosecuted by private prosecutors overseen by private Courts and having private jails? No wonder you appear to think of the Constitution as rubbish.

He's free to leave if he doesn't like the policy.

Was he asked to leave? Prior to those Private Police with drawn firearms taking him into custody?

Same at my home.

Wrong. Private residences unlike businesses are not open to the public, hence the rules of trespass apply differently.

There is no first or second amendment for you on my property.

See above

Thank God I live in a country where, as a property owner, my rights prevail.

Seems you need to refresh your knowledge of the law in this area.

You think you have freedom of speech? You want a citation? People v. Larry Flynt is a great place to start. His case was tried in Judge Manual Real's courtroom where Flynt openly argued with the judge. Judge Real ordered the bailiff to gag Flynt. Someone found a roll of tape and sealed Flynt's mouth. Flynt promised to behave, but when the tape was removed, he shouted obscenities at the judge. He was subsequently sentenced to fifteen months for this. Kids are sent home from school every day in America because of something written on a T-shirt. You want a citation? Aren't you aware this is occurring all around you?

I asked for a relevant precedent to the incident under discussion and you pull another straw man rant ........

Denial of first amendment rights happens thousands of times per day in American courts. Don't take my word for it. Test it.

Having testified many times in a court of law I'm very familiar with the rules. However this is just a continuation of your straw man rant.

Life's a great teacher.

..........

..... we definately had different teachers

Head on down to the local mall, setup your soapbox and start speaking about politics, Zimmerman or any other topic. Mall security will ask you to stop. Ignore them and keep talking. Police will arrive and ask you to stop. Keep on talking. You'll be arrested for trespass.

And you are claiming this is what occurred in regards to the incident under discussion?

Now, when you get to your arraignment keep talking. You'll be cited for criminal contempt. But keep talking at your trial. Refuse to shut-up and you'll get banged again for criminal contempt. In fact they might even tape your mouth like they did to Larry Flynt. Think about this hard. If you do this on my property I'll forceably remove you. Period. Constitutional rights? Good luck. Once again, I may not agree with all of this but I'm merely giving you the factual and historical state of the law in present day America.

......... and you're back to your straw man rant.

BTW, since you called NY a "nanny state" I'd like you to show everyone your knowledge of NY law by stating exactly what you're referring to. This is no nanny state. CCW permit holders here have rights that far surpass most states. I want you to justify th statement. Don't deflect the question, answer it. You're gonna find your knowledge of NY is quite ignorant. But hey, it's fashionable to complain about NY.

NY is a liberal craphole state

with restrictive run laws and a subjective may issue Concealed Carry system.

May Issue: States that are May Issue have the authority to take judgment on whether or not they want to issue a concealed weapons permit to a private citizen even after they have met all requirements.

And as far as my attitude? My family will attend nothing other than a top 100 college, not Wyoming. We're an Ivy League educated family. I would not have my own kids pick a university based on the second amendment.

I don't care, and I doubt anyone else cares.

Now my question for you... what have you done to promote the second amendment? When you’ve handled as many permit applications as I have you can speak.

OMG .........

.... you actually believe the manure you've been spreading

........ and think you're somehow superior .....

..... and as to your question - I'm not going to answer as it's a deflection of the original incident under discussion. I'm not getting sucked into penise measuring contest with you, it's already apparent you will always be... uh.... have the bigger PENISE.

It would be ignorant sir to think you know me or my views.

I dare say you've made a pretty clear case of it here ........ sir

 

[BC1]

Please post the laws making what you've posted above to be illegal acts otherwise I have to call BS. College policy isn't LAW.

Listen, I'm not doing your homework for you. I've been emersed in this topic for years. Lived it. Taught it. Having a best friend and business associate who is a constitutional law professor and FOX News contributor this has been hashed over and over. To those educated on the subject you clearly have zero understanding constitutional law. And despite all my education I will never be able to provide anything that will convince you. Additionally, one business I'm a partner in does do business with the general public. And if you enter with a gun and I say no, out on your arse you go. If you enter with a green shirt and I say no, out you go junior.

If you choose to lift the shroud and do your own legwork you'll find that the statements I made accurately reflect the law in present day America. Not the law as you or I interpret it, but rather as the courts have interpreted it. I barely read your response as it's quite retentive so call B.S. all day long. I'm confident that my statements are accurate as they are directly from a noted constitutional law scholar. I forwarded a copy of the post to him. He responded asking me why I waste my time trying to explain this to anyone. He regarded you as "obtuse," which I thought was quite funny as I couldn't find an actual term to fit.

You're great at arguing, for sure. You convinced me to withhold judgment on Zimmerman until the facts are known but this is quite different (BTW, I called it on Zimmerman being charged). So I'll give you the last word on it. I won't have an ongoing, time consuming argument, there's no money in it.

BTW, don't get vulgar. There are ladies reading these posts. This has nothing to do with where one lives or p-e-n-i-s size. Once you threw those insults you lost the argument among decent people.

 

[BC1]

NY is a liberal craphole state with restrictive run laws and a subjective may issue Concealed Carry system.

May Issue: States that are May Issue have the authority to take judgment on whether or not they want to issue a concealed weapons permit to a private citizen even after they have met all requirements.

I just noticed this in your prior post. Having handled over 1,800 permits you again show zero knowledge to those of us immersed in the law. Pretty opinionated though. Since you won’t show your lack of knowledge on NYS I’ll do it for you.

Let's do a quick compare of concealed-carry in FL and NYS:

NYS licensing law is provided in Article 400 of the NYS penal Law. There is no arbitrary denial allowed.

Eligibility: From 790.06

FL requires the ability to handle a firearm safely. NY does not.
FL denies applicants who have had a sentence suspended in the prior 3 years. NYS does not.
FL denies those convicted of a controlled substance law. NY does not.
FL denies those with a prior record of alcohol or drug abuse. NY does not.
FL denies those with two or more DUI convictions in the previous 3 years. NYS does not. In fact I just landed a CCW permit for a gal with three DUI convictions.
FL denies those who fail to provide proof of proficiency with a firearm. NYS does not. There is no training or qualification requirement.
FL requires renewals. NYS does not. Permits are valid for life.

General Restrictions
FL does not allow carry in a police station. NYS has no such law.
FL requires notification to LE. NYS does not.
FL does not allow carrying a firearm in a bar. NYS has no law against this.
FL does not allow carrying of a firearm in a pharmacy (790.145), WTF is that? NYS has no such laws.
FL does not allow carrying of a firearm by any person under the influence of alcohol (790.151)l. NYS has no such laws.
FL requires firearm owners store guns in a securely locked box (790.174). NYS has no such laws.

Jeeze homeboy, you should think about moving from that restrictive state to NY. Do yourself a favor... don't respond. This argument is over. See you on the Zimmerman thread.

 

[Warbirds]

Question for you BC1, does NY state require a permit to own a gun or to hunt? Not a hunting tag, but a firearm license to own a gun or to carry a gun while hunting. And isn't it illegal in NYS to handle a pistol without having a permit? I am trying to compare what you are saying versus what I though I have read about NY.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[BC1]

Question for you BC1, does NY state require a permit to own a gun or to hunt? Not a hunting tag, but a firearm license to own a gun or to carry a gun while hunting. And isn't it illegal in NYS to handle a pistol without having a permit? I am trying to compare what you are saying versus what I though I have read about NY.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

No it is not illegal to handle a gun without a license. Yes, NYS requires a permit, as do most states, to carry a handgun while hunting. No different than me coming to Utah to hunt. We've halted Utah non-resident permit services and classes. We're now recommending FL instead. Too many requirements for Utah instructors.

 

[Warbirds]

No it is not illegal to handle a gun without a license. Yes, NYS requires a permit, as do most states, to carry a handgun while hunting. No different than me coming to Utah to hunt. We've halted Utah non-resident permit services and classes. We're now recommending FL instead. Too many requirements for Utah instructors.

Are there any permit requirements as to long guns?

And to clarify there is no requirement in Utah to have a permit to own or hunt with a pistol. You can openly carry a loaded gun if you are actively engaged in a hunt. The permit comes into play if you want to carry a pistol loaded outside of a hunt or conceal it.

I just don't understand where all the bad info regarding the permits in NYS is coming from, all the posts about judges granting limited hunting permits but not granting full carry permits, what is all that about.

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[BC1]

Are there any permit requirements as to long guns?

And to clarify there is no requirement in Utah to have a permit to own or hunt with a pistol. You can openly carry a loaded gun if you are actively engaged in a hunt. The permit comes into play if you want to carry a pistol loaded outside of a hunt or conceal it.

I just don't understand where all the bad info regarding the permits in NYS is coming from, all the posts about judges granting limited hunting permits but not granting full carry permits, what is all that about.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

There are some licensing officers who are anti-gun but it's not the norm. For example Dutchess County (40 miles from NYC) issues only unrestricted CCW permits and requires no education, training or qualifier. Federal district court rulings have decided that refusing to allow anyone in any state a CCW permit does not constitute a violation of the second amendment. So any person in any state can be denied a carry permit. However they cannot be denied the right to own a gun. The norm in NYS, with the exception of a few counties, is to grant the permit. Most other states use some form of smoke and mirrors to achieve the same end. They call themselves "shall-issue" but they reserve the right to deny certain classes of people (felons, psych cases, etc.). They have laws against carry in bars, restuarants, cars, churches, police stations, hospitals, doctors offices, public transportation, banks, pharmacies, etc. The end result is the same... restricted access and carry. Admittedly NY is wrong on the reciprocity issue but hopefully this will be worked-out in the future.

There is no registration for rifles, assault weapons, shotguns, etc. There is no limitation on the number of these types of guns owned.

Why does NY get such a bad rap? Well, it's the liberal enclave in NYC. They do bizarre things down there and the rest of the country sees it. . People equate NYC with the rest of the state. The image is one of strict laws and over-zealous LEO. Just an hour North of the city is a beautfull, mountainous, rural and secluded area. We live on secluded large property parcels in a mostly gun-friendly area. We routinely hear gunshots from the surrounding area.

Funny story that summarizes the thinking... My neighbor was shooting his new Les Baer 1911 behind his home. LE arrived and disarmed him. They had received a call of a madman with a gun. He explained he was on private property and has been doing this for decades. The LEO apologized and asked us to call the local PD when we're shooting so they can head-off any call. Then they went to see the lady who made the call. She was a NYC transplant just moving into a new home. In NYC they equate gun shots with crime. The police explained she has moved to gun country and would regularly hear shots. She was appalled. Her husband came home during this and learned he could get a CCW permit. He was at my door the next day looking for a permit. He got it and joined the local gun club. Eventually his wife came around and began to shoot as well. But the stingma continues in NYC.

BTW we regularly have students from NJ, VT, NH, MA, CT and PA at our PP classes. Non-residents are allowed to bring their gun into NYS for purposes of training. They are exempted from state laws under S265.20 of the penal law.

 

[SGB]

Listen, I'm not doing your homework for you. I've been emersed in this topic for years. Lived it. Taught it. Having a best friend and business associate who is a constitutional law professor and FOX News contributor this has been hashed over and over. To those educated on the subject you clearly have zero understanding constitutional law. And despite all my education I will never be able to provide anything that will convince you. Additionally, one business I'm a partner in does do business with the general public. And if you enter with a gun and I say no, out on your arse you go. If you enter with a green shirt and I say no, out you go junior.

If you choose to lift the shroud and do your own legwork you'll find that the statements I made accurately reflect the law in present day America. Not the law as you or I interpret it, but rather as the courts have interpreted it. I barely read your response as it's quite retentive so call B.S. all day long. I'm confident that my statements are accurate as they are directly from a noted constitutional law scholar. I forwarded a copy of the post to him. He responded asking me why I waste my time trying to explain this to anyone. He regarded you as "obtuse," which I thought was quite funny as I couldn't find an actual term to fit.

You're great at arguing, for sure. You convinced me to withhold judgment on Zimmerman until the facts are known but this is quite different (BTW, I called it on Zimmerman being charged). So I'll give you the last word on it. I won't have an ongoing, time consuming argument, there's no money in it.

BTW, don't get vulgar. There are ladies reading these posts. This has nothing to do with where one lives or p-e-n-i-s size. Once you threw those insults you lost the argument among decent people.

straw man

I just noticed this in your prior post. Having handled over 1,800 permits you again show zero knowledge to those of us immersed in the law. Pretty opinionated though. Since you won’t show your lack of knowledge on NYS I’ll do it for you.

Let's do a quick compare of concealed-carry in FL and NYS:

NYS licensing law is provided in Article 400 of the NYS penal Law. There is no arbitrary denial allowed.

Eligibility: From 790.06

FL requires the ability to handle a firearm safely. NY does not.
FL denies applicants who have had a sentence suspended in the prior 3 years. NYS does not.
FL denies those convicted of a controlled substance law. NY does not.
FL denies those with a prior record of alcohol or drug abuse. NY does not.
FL denies those with two or more DUI convictions in the previous 3 years. NYS does not. In fact I just landed a CCW permit for a gal with three DUI convictions.
FL denies those who fail to provide proof of proficiency with a firearm. NYS does not. There is no training or qualification requirement.
FL requires renewals. NYS does not. Permits are valid for life.

General Restrictions
FL does not allow carry in a police station. NYS has no such law.
FL requires notification to LE. NYS does not.
FL does not allow carrying a firearm in a bar. NYS has no law against this.
FL does not allow carrying of a firearm in a pharmacy (790.145), WTF is that? NYS has no such laws.
FL does not allow carrying of a firearm by any person under the influence of alcohol (790.151)l. NYS has no such laws.
FL requires firearm owners store guns in a securely locked box (790.174). NYS has no such laws.

Jeeze homeboy, you should think about moving from that restrictive state to NY. Do yourself a favor... don't respond. This argument is over. See you on the Zimmerman thread.

straw man Link Removed

You continue to deflect the discussion with pompus Bull and still haven't answered the question I asked Straw Man.

 

[Deserteagle]

People throughout this site write about problems in their "shall-issue" states. They're having problems carrying on public transportation, restuarants, etc. To me these are restrictive states.

Although these said restrictions do not apply to Colorado, another good example of a restriction is New York's magazine restrictions. At least in many shall issue states, we can carry more than 10 rounds in one mag.

Here's some info for ya. Colorado has 5.1 million total residents. NYS has 1.2 million CCW permit holders.

Not quite sure what you are trying to compare here. This is apples and oranges. Number of CO residents versus number of NY permit holders?

You also have to have a permit in NY to even buy a handgun.

 

[BC1]

Although these said restrictions do not apply to Colorado, another good example of a restriction is New York's magazine restrictions. At least in many shall issue states, we can carry more than 10 rounds in one mag.

How many CCW permits in CO?

You say "another" example of restrictions is mag capacity. I carry 15 in a subcompact and 17 in a full size 9mm. What are the other restrictive issuesw. I teach the penal law and there aren't very many gun laws on the books. You can't just make a generalized statement. Provide some specifics and I can address the misinformation out there. Most states require some type of permit or foid. Nonetheless we're very far from the bottom of the list on restrictive measures. If you have criticism it's best to cite specifically what the issue is so I can answer the question. This isn't a contest to see who's state is better. This is merely a statement that NY is very far from the bottom, contrary to the hype.

In the end all that matters is that I can carry the gun wherever and whenever I want, same as 1.3 million others.

 

[JimMullinsWVCDL]

I just noticed this in your prior post. Having handled over 1,800 permits you again show zero knowledge to those of us immersed in the law. Pretty opinionated though. Since you won’t show your lack of knowledge on NYS I’ll do it for you.

Let's do a quick compare of concealed-carry in FL and NYS:

NYS licensing law is provided in Article 400 of the NYS penal Law. There is no arbitrary denial allowed.

Eligibility: From 790.06

FL requires the ability to handle a firearm safely. NY does not.

Nonresidents are eligible to obtain concealed weapon licenses in Florida; not in New York. Florida has a broad reciprocity law that automatically recognizes concealed weapon licenses with any state willing to honor Florida licenses; New York does not recognize other states' licenses. Nonresidents have a realistic ability to provide for their self-defense while visiting Florida as do Florida residents; not so for visitors to New York.

Florida issues a single license valid for any firearm or other weapon; New York registers handguns, limits the license to the listed handguns, and does not permit a licensed individual to carry any handgun not listed on the license, including a licensed handgun on another person's license.

FL denies applicants who have had a sentence suspended in the prior 3 years. NYS does not.

How many individuals who have had adjudication of guilt withheld or imposition of sentence suspended on any felony or misdemeanor crime of domestic violence in the last 3 years get unrestricted, full carry licenses in NYS?

FL denies those convicted of a controlled substance law. NY does not.

Only if it was within the last 3 years. How many individuals with a drug conviction within the last 3 years get unrestricted, full carry licenses in NYS?

FL denies those with a prior record of alcohol or drug abuse. NY does not.

The "Prior record" is a commitment for drug abuse within the last 3 years or currently chronically and habitually uses alcoholic beverages or other substances to the extent that the person's normal faculties are impaired. How many people get unrestricted, full carry licenses in NYS with a commitment for drug abuse treatment within the last 3 years or current, uncontrolled alcoholism or drug abuse?

FL denies those with two or more DUI convictions in the previous 3 years. NYS does not. In fact I just landed a CCW permit for a gal with three DUI convictions.

How many of those were from within the last 3 years?

FL denies those who fail to provide proof of proficiency with a firearm. NYS does not. There is no training or qualification requirement.
FL requires renewals. NYS does not. Permits are valid for life.

If NYS did not require a license merely to possess a handgun, might be a point of comparison. Unfortunately, not all of NYS issues lifetime licenses.

General Restrictions
FL does not allow carry in a police station. NYS has no such law.
FL requires notification to LE. NYS does not.

Incorrect. FL only requires the licensee to "carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer."

FL does not allow carrying a firearm in a bar. NYS has no law against this.
FL does not allow carrying of a firearm in a pharmacy (790.145), WTF is that? NYS has no such laws.

Fla. Stat. § 790.145 does not apply "[t]o any person licensed to carry a concealed weapon." It is merely a redundant, piling-on charge for criminals.

FL does not allow carrying of a firearm by any person under the influence of alcohol (790.151)l. NYS has no such laws.

Not quite. Fla. Stat. § 790.151 only
prohibits the "use [of] a firearm" while under the influence. Under this statute, "to 'use a firearm' means to discharge a firearm or to have a firearm readily accessible for immediate discharge. . . . For the purposes of this section, 'readily accessible for immediate discharge' means loaded and in a person’s hand." Additionally, "[t]his section does not apply to persons exercising lawful self-defense or defense of one’s property."

FL requires firearm owners store guns in a securely locked box (790.174). NYS has no such laws.

Only when the firearm is kept in a place where it could reasonably be accessed by a person under 16 years old. Fla. Stat. § 790.174. Since I assume you agree even that is too broad, count yourself lucky NYS hasn't copied it.

Jeeze homeboy, you should think about moving from that restrictive state to NY. Do yourself a favor... don't respond. This argument is over. See you on the Zimmerman thread.

 

[SGB]

 

[Caribou]

Boy, this thread sure got hijacked.

Look at the bright side, the guy can buy a lot of guns, ammo, and other fun stuff with the proceeds from the false arrest case. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but I have never heard of any laws or rules against empty holsters. Guns yes, but the holster I doubt it. The holster was no different than a sign in this case. As the guy was protesting, this is a first amendment issue. The school fuz didn't like his protest so they busted him. They may continue to harass him till he takes some cash out of their budget.

I strongly believe that it should be legal to carry guns at schools if you can legally carry one. I think his protest is great. I don't think I would have chosen a Trevon Martin rally to air my grievances. That kind of crowd has the potential to turn violent.

 

[SGB]

Boy, this thread sure got hijacked.

First rule of the left, when you can't argue the facts deflect the discussion ...................

 

[Warbirds]

First rule of the left, when you can't argue the facts deflect the discussion ...................

I thought the first rule of the left was constantly fill your worthless posts with stupid smiley faces.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk

 

[BC1]

Some of the stats you ask for are not available as counties don't report the reasons for a denial to any state agency. Sorry for the long post.

How many individuals who have had adjudication of guilt withheld or imposition of sentence suspended on any felony or misdemeanor crime of domestic violence in the last 3 years get unrestricted, full carry licenses in NYS?

Any felony conviction prohibits the individual from obtaining a permit. Same as voting. Personally, having been through the experience of having a child murdered I believe strongly in this. I'm not giving a gun to a perp just because he served his sentence. In (some, not all) misdemeanor cases there need be a period of time before a permit would be granted, but there is no statutory requirement. Personally, I don't want to give a permit to someone who commits the crime of domestic violence. People give me flack on this all the time but they need to understand the victim impact some of us have been through. When you put your wife to bed crying every night for 12 years it's hard to have any sympathy for a felon.

Only if it was within the last 3 years. How many individuals with a drug conviction within the last 3 years get unrestricted, full carry licenses in NYS?

A considerable number of persons recently convicted of misdemeanor drug offenses have unrestricted permits. Permits are not routinely revoked upon a misdemeanor coviction unless it is a theft or person-onperson charge. We've handled permits for business owners with minor drug convictions but a felony conviction is a show stopper for handguns. Rifles/shotguns are OK with a certificate of relief.

How many people get unrestricted, full carry licenses in NYS with a commitment for drug abuse treatment within the last 3 years or current, uncontrolled alcoholism or drug abuse?

There is no way for a licensing officer to know if someone has voluntarily sought inpatient drug/alcohol treatment unless it was in a state facility or the confinement was a result of a court order. No way to know if someone is a habitual drunk unless they're busted. Voluntary admissions to rehab aren’t recorded. There is no statutory requirement that a certain period of time elapse before applying, but an interview is conducted by a local police agency to asses if there is still a substance abuse issue. A young lady recently received her unrestricted permit through us despite three convitions for DUI in the past six years, of which two were within three years. Another gentleman received an unrestricted permit after accepting a violation level harrassment plea from a simple assault charge (misdemeanor). Both were business owners.

If NYS did not require a license merely to possess a handgun, might be a point of comparison. Unfortunately, not all of NYS issues lifetime licenses.

We’re not comparing what state is better. We're merely trying to dispell some myths about permits on the state (not NYC) level. It’s not really a unique issue for NY as many states require a permit to own. Presently I believe only two counties in NYS require renewal. And renewals are the norm in many gun-friendly states such as TX.

FL does not allow carry in a police station. NYS has no such law.
FL requires notification to LE. NYS does not.

Incorrect. FL only requires the licensee to "carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer."

The information on FL was obtained from the application documents provided by the FL Dept. of Agriculture and Consumer Services Division of Licensing. Any incorrect facts contained therein are the responsibility of the state of FL.

Not quite. FL prohibits the "use [of] a firearm" while under the influence. Under this statute, "to 'use a firearm' means to discharge a firearm or to have a firearm readily accessible for immediate discharge.

Got it. But we don’t have any similar law. So in FL one can carry the gun without breaking the law but can't use it while under the influence? Why would they have it on them? Once again, many if not most states prohibit the possession of a weapon while intoxicated and some even in a restuarant receiving +51% of proceeds from alchohol.

Only when the firearm is kept in a place where it could reasonably be accessed by a person under 16 years old. Since I assume you agree even that is too broad, count yourself lucky NYS hasn't copied it.

Yes! We’ve been lucky. There have been a few attempts to do this that met with resistance.


FYI… FL state permits number roughly 924,000 in a population of 19,000,000 (4.8%). NY state permits number roughly 1.3 million in a population of 11,000,000 (11.8% of population, excluding NYC where CCW permits are not issued). I think the numbers bear out pretty well. But NYS has a very bad record when it comes to non-residents. Somehow the notion that a person's good nature changes when they cross a state line is crazy to me. If there were anything I would want to see changed it's that issue.