Well that was fun, LEO Missouri


doublebarr

New member
Had a colt I took in this morning to have gelded. Got finished at the vets, loaded him back up and left for home slowly since he was still a bit groggy. About half way home (40 miles from vet) I see red and blue flashing lights in my mirrors. Yippie. I KNOW I wasn't speeding since I was taking it easy on the colt, and hadn't changed lanes since I left town so I was a bit worried that something was wrong back in the trailer and the horse was in trouble.

He gets out of the car right away and comes up to the door and I ask him "What is wrong?" thinking I was going to find something horrible when I go back to look in the trailer. He says, "Do you know your trailer tags are expired?" WHEW!!!! The horse is fine was my first thought, then it was "what the heck!". I told him I sure didn't. He said they were expired in 2010, LOLOLOLOL! Most of our trailers are lifetime licensed, but this one wasn't as it is an equine trailer and not a stock, so I guess about 2 years ago I forgot to get it taken care of (yeah, it's my job to keep the vehicles/trailers up to date so no one else to blame). So he asks me for my license and insurance and I hand them to him.

I am carrying, but MO is not a "notify" state so I say nothing about my pistol. Then he asks me to step out of the vehicle and come back to his car with him. So THEN I tell him I have a CCW and am carrying (I do that because it is my new pistol and I don't have a good holster for it yet and it will print though my shirt and I have no desire to end up on the ground with my face in the gravel because he might be one to "react" instead of think) and hand him my CCW permit. (before anyone goes off about calling it a CCW as they have done in the past, Missouri issues a CCW license and that IS what they call it, not a CC permit). He asks, "where is it now?" and I tell him it's on my waist and he asks me to take it out and lay it on my seat before I get out. So I do so, we walk back to his car, I get in and he does all his computer stuff and asks me while pointing at my expired trailer tag, "So I guess you haven't pulled the trailer for a while since it's been expired since Dec 2010?" I start laughing and tell him, "No, I drive it all the time, it just appears you are the first one that noticed, I didn't even realize they were expired and I load up back there all the time." He gets to laughing too and does write me for an expired tag, which I expected and deserved. Looks like I will be making a trip to the license office today too.

He then hands me the ticket and tells me he appreciates my informing him that I was carrying but would prefer to know right away. I look at him, since we seem to be getting along well, and ask him if he has a few minutes or if he needs to get moving. He looks at me funny and says he is in no hurry. So off I go, I tell him that since Missouri is not an "must inform" state, that I actually did not need to inform him at all. He replies exactly as I expected and was ready for, he says, "Actually, you are right but it is much safer for both of us if you inform me right away. I mean look, if I had left you in the vehicle and walked back here to write the ticket and then walked back up to you, while I was behind the trailer I couldn't easily see what you were doing and I wouldn't know if you had a weapon in your hands or not. 100% of the officers are just like me and would want to know as soon as we walked up to you."

So Here I go! I said, "Wait a minute. How is it safer for you to know that I have a pistol in my possession when I am a legal permit holder and never touch my weapon in your presence and do not intend to use it? When I know that I do not have a record and there is not one reason for you to arrest me? What part of knowing I have a pistol makes you safer in those circumstances? Now don't answer quickly, but think about it and give me an honest answer."

He again gives me that funny look, takes a minute and then says, "All I can say is 100% of the officers out here would prefer to know right away." I laugh and smile at him (nicely not snidely) and thank him for his honest answer but, "we both know what an answer like that means, don't we? But it does give you something to think about doesn't it? I'm glad to have had a chance to speak to you". So I tell him that is all I wanted to say and thank him for taking a few minutes to talk with me and get out of his car and go back to my truck and go on home to drop off the colt and have a bite of lunch before heading into town again this afternoon to fix the license issue.

However, the funniest part of this, I get home and look at the ticket and in the part that says, "Did then and there commit the following offense. The facts supporting this belief are as follows:" he wrote the following -

Failure to register motor vehicle annually with Department of Revenue: Trailer plate MO ***-***, Expired DEC 2012

ROTFLOL!!! Wonder if I can go into the department and tell them I'm not paying the fine since it's not DEC 2012 yet? LOL!
 

kerb

pinche gringo
Sounds like he was a pretty decent guy. I guess my response to him would have been that he should *always* assume people are carrying.
 

wolf_fire

New member
I'm glad you had a decent experience with the officer. I find when I give respect with officers, I get the same back.

You have made a very valid point about notifying the officer. (I too live in a state where you are not required to notify). I also know that for some reason, the officers want you to tell them right away. Well here's the deal... if I am a BG and I am carrying, I'm certainly NOT going to tell you I'm carrying and if I'm a GG, then I will tell if you ask. So what's the point in notifying at all? An officer has record that you are a holder of a permit/license (whatever they call it in your particular state), so he or she should be ready for you to have a firearm. *shrugs* I still don't get the whole "notify" issue.
 

CathyInBlue

Tool Maker
That slip of the pen might have been on purpose so you can get the ticket tossed and get a new plate without penalty.

I do dispute the "it is much safer for both of us if you inform me right away" crap, though.
 

BHG1978

New member
Because people who intend to shoot police officers don't mind breaking the "murder" laws but oh no they are going to be sure to follow law/ takethe time/money to get a concealed carry permit/license etc:yes4:


Patrol officers seem to love barking up the wrong trees on a regular basis rather than using common sense
 

Deserteagle

New member
Sounds like he was a pretty decent guy. I guess my response to him would have been that he should *always* assume people are carrying.

Agreed. If an officer is concerned about his safety, he should always plan for the worst, and that can include assuming everyone is armed.


What I am shaking my head at is the fact that he let the OP take the gun out of his waist and put it on the seat. I sure wouldn't want somebody handling their gun when I am investigating them.
 

NavyLCDR

New member
He replies exactly as I expected and was ready for, he says, "Actually, you are right but it is much safer for both of us if you inform me right away. I mean look, if I had left you in the vehicle and walked back here to write the ticket and then walked back up to you, while I was behind the trailer I couldn't easily see what you were doing and I wouldn't know if you had a weapon in your hands or not."

Well....hmmmm. Let's see. The ONLY reason you had any weapon in your hand in the first place was BECAUSE you told the cop you had a gun and he told you to handle it The safest place for my gun is in the holster on my belt. PERIOD. The most assured way I have of keeping the gun in my holster on my belt is to keep my mouth shut about it when in the presence of ANY stranger, including those who wear a uniform and a badge.

Personally, I think you handled the situation exactly right - keep your mouth shut about your gun until such time as the officer is going to more likely than not find it anyway. I've been asked to exit the vehicle once while open carrying, but the officer never gave me a chance to tell him about my gun before he walked back to between our vehicles where we met. Since I could not legally leave my gun in the car, I simply got out and walked back to meet him. Not a word was said by either one of us about my openly carried Taurus PT-145.

Good for you, sounds like you gave the officer something real to think about.
 

Billy_B

New member
As a retired officer in Mo from one of our larger Cities I think that most officers make stops assuming that the stopped person is armed. In Mo any non felon and person of age can carry in the glove box of the car even if you are not a card carrier, and many do. Most of the officers that I know would appreciate knowing if there is a legal gun in the car or on a person. Illegal guns will never be spoken about by the carrier and usually will be found in a search under PC. If a person is carring legally and tells an officer about the weapon The Officer will usually go about his business without the lingering feeling is there something I'm missing on this stop, is there PC for me to do a search ect ect. If stopped at some point, early on, I will tell him I am carring.
 

NavyLCDR

New member
As a retired officer in Mo from one of our larger Cities I think that most officers make stops assuming that the stopped person is armed. In Mo any non felon and person of age can carry in the glove box of the car even if you are not a card carrier, and many do. Most of the officers that I know would appreciate knowing if there is a legal gun in the car or on a person. Illegal guns will never be spoken about by the carrier and usually will be found in a search under PC. If a person is carring legally and tells an officer about the weapon The Officer will usually go about his business without the lingering feeling is there something I'm missing on this stop, is there PC for me to do a search ect ect. If stopped at some point, early on, I will tell him I am carring.

There are so many other things I can do to indicate to the officer that I am not intending to harm them, telling them about a gun that I lawfully posses and carry with a 99% chance they will never see or have reason to discover just isn't at the top of that list.
 

Fallschirmjäger

New member
What is the rationale between having to disclose to the officer that you're carrying a perfectly legal item and yet NOT having to disclose to the officer that you have 2kg of cocaine in the trunk or that you just kidnapped a 16yro cheerleader and are taking her to your evil hideout?

Anyone wanna take a crack at that?
 

NavyLCDR

New member
What is the rationale between having to disclose to the officer that you're carrying a perfectly legal item and yet NOT having to disclose to the officer that you have 2kg of cocaine in the trunk or that you just kidnapped a 16yro cheerleader and are taking her to your evil hideout?

Anyone wanna take a crack at that?

Because a law requiring a persom to confess to criminal activity to the police is a violation of the 5th Amendment. A law requiring a person to inform a police officer of perfectly legal activity does not violate the 5th amendment. The criminal has much more protection of their rights than law abiding citizens do. Isn't that the entire point of gun control laws? To hinder those people who obey laws from being a danger to society by possessing firearms that they would not use to commit a crime with anyway?
 

eagleeyes

New member
you have that right navylcdr! seems everything really is backwards these days

we have a 'criminal justice' system that ironically gives criminals more rights so long you part of the big agenda
education system keeps us dumbed down and docile
religious systems selling snake oil
medical systems keep us consuming drugs we could do without
governments that destroy our rights........
all that just makes me smh however
hearing the ops story and ones like it bring joy to my heart and sooths the soul and better than all the violent 'news' they use to make folks overly suspicious of everyone and all......not saying we should let down our guard but trust more your gut and instincts too
 

Billy_B

New member
For the many reasons stated above Missouri does not require disclosure and Thats Good. My reply was baised only on my prespective as a Ret. officer. I have not been stopped yet after retirement and I guess the attitude of the officer may indicate what I will tell or not tell. One thing for sure pryor to a search of myself and my car I will disclose and show my card.
 

lselph

New member
My guess is it is totally opposite of what he thinks he is saying. If you tell him up front you are a legally licensed person to carry a concealed weapon and are in fact doing so at that moment my guess is he would be LESS worried about what you are doing because not only are you capable of being licensed but you are also being up front and honest and that probably puts him at more ease than wondering if you are a BG or GG. But I agree the notify thing is a mess. My guess is you would get more negative reactions than positive ones. I honestly would never say anything until they asked me to leave the car at which point I would just for everyone's safety.
 

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