Well-regulated militia


kbv

New member
I was thinking (scary idea!) that if a group of shooting enthusiasts were to find a suitable site for target parctice (50-100 M into a huge, dense hillside or some other gepgraphical formation that would stop bullets without danger or ricoche, get permission from the land owner to use it, and meet there regularly ( weekly, monthly, whatever) with the policy that you are a member if you say you are, it could be called a militia, especially if the occassional expert were to drop in and give a talk or supervise an excercise.

The only reason needed to justify something like this would be to protect the constitution; yeah, yeah, we've all heard that one. Here's the difference: we would allow local LEOs to watch, even participate, but we would NOT be affilliated with Law Enforcement in any sense. Available in an emergency? Negotiable.

These would be independant social organizations of like-minded people getting together to ensure the first half of the 2nd Amendment gets its equal respect. We could have a simple website tying us together throughout the country, and stay out of the political debate; just adhere precisely to the tenets of the 2nd Ammendment. It never says WHO is to regulate the well-armed militia, but communication and traing sound well-regulated enough to me, as long as we didn't turn into vigilantes. "The rightr of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." is enough for me, but a "well-regulated militia" takes all the steam I can see out of their argument. You wouldn't even have to sign up; you are if you say you are. Any feedback?
 

Cooter

Liberty or Death
Sounds great to me, but the way the world is right now probably won't take kindly to it just like in the '90s. It is clear that the founding fathers didn't want a standing army, they wanted the people to be armed and ready to fight in case of war.

Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state. -Thomas Jefferson

The way things are, the media may label your group as an extreme right-wing, racist, anti-government, militant, terrorist group or something. The word "militia" is scary to people nowadays. I would call it something like a gun club, or shooting practice.

Militias in the '90s tried to reach out to the local community and LE, but in most cases they were just demonized and most of them went quiet. I still am yet to find an instance where LE requested the help of any militia.

I am all in favor of groups of "civilians" practicing shooting, tactics, communication, etc. So I'm not saying not to go for it, I'm just saying tread carefully. :wink:
 

Invisible_Dave

New member
If the gun grabbers won't honor the "right to keep and bare" section, why would they honor the "a well regulated militia" part?
 
The thing to look at here is that you may be giving in to the idea that a militia is an organized group (i.e. the reserves or guard). This was not the case when our founding fathers wrote that. The thought then was that the militia consisted of "all able bodied men". We do not need to stray from the fact that the right to keep and bear arms is a right of the people.
 

kbv

New member
Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of a social organization, like Knights of Columbus or the local country club, consisting of citizens sharing a common interest: firearm safety. No maneuvers, no LE, just a group that meets a couple times a month to discuss gun safety, laws, etc, and possibly do some shooting. Have a guset speaker from the NRA, LE, Handguns Inc. (defusing the "us against them" mindset), hopefully with the cooperstion of local LE. Already thought about possible ramifications; LE knowing who has what, that sort of thing, bu if you are a legitimate gun owner, they probably already know anyway.

The goal is to provide an alternative view of the much-demonized "gun nut", dressed in camo, arguing the 2nd Ammendment with anyone who will listen, skulking around in search of someone to shoot and get away with it. The group I have in mind could sponsor public gun safety seminars, perhaps even working with the schools in some capacity. The major focus would be on gun safety and responsible use/ownership. No "tactical field training, public demonstrations, keep it as a-politcal as possible. Perhaps an occassional letter to the paper, carefully written so as not to alarm the dis-armers.

If we are going to keep our guns legally, we dare not sit on our haunches and wait for someone else to win the battle. We need to show the avrage gun owner as they really are; the next-door-neighbor, football coach, accountant, EMT, doctor, and so on, not just the Freemen of Montana, Hinkleys and Chapmans, and gang-bangers. We need to take a firm stance against vigilanteism, armed citizens patrolling the neighborhoods, and so on. We have police, etc, for that.

I have sworn to uphold the Constitution and protect our country from all enemies, outside or in. That doesn't mean I am going to, at any point, declare "open season" on criminals, corrupt politicians, et al. The rule "Never surrender your piece" has one exception: I will allow a duly-appointed law enforcement officer, on request, temporary control of my weapon, no sass, back-talk, or 2nd Amendment lectures. I do not care for all the laws on the books, and i know there are plenty of :bad cops"; however, when they put on their uniform, don their badge, and go into harm's way as a way of life, I have to respect not only their courage, but also their right to do their job with the least amount of danger possible.

I have always been told, when asked to surrender my weapon, that it is for my own safety. I believe it, because if the roles were reversed, that would be my policy. who in their right mind would run a wants and warrants check on a person they know to be armed? If you come up clean, they have to give it back; if you are not comfortable in a situation, request a field supervisor be present. 99% of the police I have dealt with return respect with respect, attitude with attitude, and hostility with concern for their lives. They will not hesitate to use force to ensure their safety, which could very well jeapardize your own.

I believe the thing we, as responsible gun owners, need to do is to "de-scarify" ourselves. Show the non- and anti-gunners that, as a group, we are not much different than they, other than we have made the decision to follow the Constitution. The only way to accomplish this is through education and example. If 'Jorac Obamden" get their way, the popint will be moot in under four years; not a lot of time to undo generations of horror stories, inflated statistics, and the general "loose cannon" stigma that goes with owning a handgun and being willing to use it.

One last thing: ammo has gotten pretty scarce most places, and what good is a firearm without anything to fire from it? Write letters to Congress (be extremely careful how you word them), newspapers, etc, voicing your opinion on this matter. Word I've gotten is Obamden put a new policy into effect, forbidding the sale of used military brass to ammunition manufacturers. at this point, that is all I know, and I can't swear to it. Have been, and will continue to look for verification; have not found any yet. Something is going on, though. There are almost no bullets available online; temporarily out of stock, the say. And I can not find a box of primers anywhere. If there's nothing to shoot available, what good is a firearm? The all-out attack on the 2nd Amendment has begun; make no mistake. These people are doing their best to start a "revolution" that we cannot win; all they need do is stop the supply of oil. Stores will be empty within a week (ammo the first day), and how many of us have gardens or the skills necessary to survive without gas and electricity?

Thank you for taking the time to read this rather long message. What you do next is up to you. I am keeping my own counsel on my plans.
 

Ektarr

Dedicated Infidel
If we are going to keep our guns legally . . .

And there you have the crux of it, exactly. You seem to maintain the expectation that this is an option. I do not. Personally, I think that going 'public' with your activities and resources is exactly the wrong way to go. This has become a Government that cannot be trusted, and more and more all the time, and it's foolish to believe otherwise. Think 1939 Germany. Restate your idea in that context, then tell me it's still a good idea.
 

fuhr52

New member
Do not make the mistake of trusting this administration. They are not about to let the truth get in the way of their agenda. Just listen to the misinformation coming out of the town hall meetings on Obama Care.:angry:
 

Cooter

Liberty or Death
I agree, the government is untrustable. But I would like to add that it is not just THIS administration. Bush's agenda was the same as Obama's, as well as Clinton and Daddy Bush, etc. The policies never change, only the front men. Until we abolish rigged voting systems, and elect a President who stands for the People not just another NWO puppet, we will be in the same crap forever.
 

kbv

New member
And when they (whoever "they" are) kick our doors in some crystal-clear evening, demanding our guns with M-16s, AR-15s, tear gas, concussion grenades, and brute force, where will be then? I don't want to hear that is not an option, because that's what they did in Nazi Germany, the USSR, N. Korea, Viet Nam, Thailand, etc. You cannot own a "military" caliber weapon in Mexico (how many aren't?) or most South of the Border countries, but the streets are full of them.

If the ENTIRE population is not for the 2nd Amendment, how much support can we expect from our neighbors? In this stupid country, "they" could probably go state to state confiscating weapons, and what could we do about it? Start shooting cops and National Guardspeople? If you have a CCW, "they" know you probably have a handgun. You will be first on the list, whether you OC or CC. and unless someone has figured out how to keep the lights and gas on during a "revolution", "they" are going to prevail.

How many can afford to stockpile enough food and water to outlast the US Gov't? Where will you go? What will you do when "they" make posession of a handgun a "shoot-on-sight" offense? If memory serves, that's what happened in New Orleans, East LA, etc, though those were only in "extreme" situations. Was Vicki Weaver standing in her doorway holding her baby an "extreme" situation? It was to Ron Hariguchi, and Janet Reno backed him all the way."They" fried the Branch Davidians, men, women, and children; did anyone from the FBI, BATF, or any gov agency involved in that fiasco even get a slap on the wrist?

Link Removed
www.senate.gov/general/contact.../senators_cfm.cfm
Link Removed
congress.org/congressorg/home/

Here are four websites claiming to list the email addresses of all the Senators, Congresspeople, even the White House. I just Googled "congressional contact list"; there are a lot more, including state legislatures, but I can't do all the work around here, lol. Get a complete list, put it in you contacts folder in either your email provider or MS Outlook (Sorry, I don't know about Mac and Linux), write a WELL-WORDED, NON-THREATENING letter stating your concerns and the reasons for them, and CC it to ALL of them. You only have to set up the contact list once, though, if I know the Gov, that'll take a lot longer than it should. Send a copy to the paper while you're at it. Rolling Stone, Time, Life, TV networks, whoever you can think of. Do NOT use the word "revolution" or any similar term; keep in mind that these people are among the biggest cowards in history. They pay thugs (FBI, BATF, DEA, State, County, and Local LEAs) very well to deal with any conceived threat the the security of the "nation" or its elected representatives. And, please, I am not saying all LEOs are thugs. but if the word comes down, they will all be there to knock (kick?) on your door.

People are so wound up with the "War on Drugs", gang activity, and illegal aliens we often miss the bigger picture. can you say "Smoke and Mirrors"? magic works through distraction; so does the gov. Once "they" start kicking doors in, it will be too late; fight or flight will be the only options left. all of the "One World Government" plans (surely you've heard that term before) hinge on dis-arming the various populations, leaving guns and ammo solely in the hands of LE and the military.

Right now, I'm paying $30+ for a box of .45 FMJs here in AZ. Haven't seen a primer for sale in so long I forget what they look like. Google it, don't just take my word for it. .22s are all but impossible to find; WalMart is rationing ammo, and it sells out in hours, when available at all. Gun dealers have told me Obama just stopped selling used military brass to the ammunition manufacturers; I can't swear to it, but it sounds logical. Billions needed in bail-out money for the scum who worked the system under Pres. Bush to deregulate the banking business and rape the world economy, and the gov puts a halt to one of it biggest money-making ventures? Steel production has shifted from the US overseas, and polymers (the plastic used to make Glocks, etc) are made from oil.

Great Brittain and Australia, out of the blue, made firearm ownership of ANY kind illegal. Pistols, rifles, collector items, didn't matter. Did anyone else see the film of all those guns being destroyed? It took days using scoop shovels, car magnets, whatever, to destroy all those guns, but they're gone now. Those countries don't even HAVE significant gun crimes. I know there's a lot more going on, but I get depressed watching it. Half the cops in town are friends of mine; I'm supposed to open fire on them when (notice I did not say IF) the order comes down to go door-to-door collecting whatever guns are left after the "good citizens" have all turned theirs in? What, are we going to call one another to make a stand? Disappear into the desert at the first hint of confiscation? How many reading this can build a fire without matches or a lighter? Keep the bare necessities for survival (Buck knife, collapsable pliers tool, first aid kit, flash light w/extra batteries or self-powering, an extra can of gasoline, diesel, and water in your "emergency vehicle", rifle, shotgun, and pistol(s), etc) close at hand; even better, on your person?

This is not bragging, but I wrote about exactly what is happening today in a news letter ("The Monster Watch News") I published in the mid-nineties. Crushing all cars over the age of OnStar, LoJack, et al, getting the ammo off the streets first, making a decent firearm so expensive most people could not afford one. hiding gun legislation in budgets and health-care bills, then pushing them through so fast most legislators never have time to read them, adding to the "you can no longer own a firearm" list of laws. Damn near got killed for it, too. Had to "lie low" for the past 10 or 12 years until things calmed down. i broke no laws, didn't even "force" my views on anyone, but I was red-flagged in the city I lived in (minimum four cars responding any time my name went over the wire, cops claiming "probable cause" to enter my house without a warrant (they "heard" what sounded like a fight; it was a TV show), the fBI threatening to arrest me for false reporting or something after my 13 yr-old daughter ran off with a carney to a diferent state (the other carneys found out where she lived, called us, and sent her home). The LE community did nothing except raise their terrorism tactics on me until I left town. My wife banged her chin and I got arrested for domestic Assault; the arresting officer brought a real-estate agent to the jail for me to list my house with. State's Attorney took the case all the way to jury trial, even after several judges recused themselves from the case. after hearing testimony from the arresting officer and my wife, plus reading a deposition from the ER dotor that the injury could NOT have been caused by a blow from a hand, the Judge sent the jury home and gave me a directed verdict of "Not Guilty with Prejudice", meaning the charge could not be brought up again. My cost? $3500 and over a month in jail, then the strictest bail conditions allowable.

Through all of this, I somehow managed to keep my CCW! Cops would pull me over because my car was red, find a Condition One .45 on me and an SKS and pistol-grip Mossburg 12-Ga. in my trunk, and ask how someone like me could get a full-carry permit. Easy: I obey the law. I CC'd at the time; what good did that do me?

The kid with the knife is just an example of how things were in my neighborhood at the time, and my testamonial that just because you are carrying a gun doesn't make you "safe". If my friend Ed, may he rest in piece, hadn't seen the kid lunging at me and stopped him, I would have been dead, lying there with my .44 Redhawk in its shoulder sling, my Norinco .45 1911A1 on my belt, and my Kel Tec P-11 tucked behind my belt. Not to mention my Buck Knife, and years of martial arts training. Don't forget about watching one another's backs.

Next time I post. I'll print as well-worded letter to Congress voicing my opinion and explaining the 2nd Amendment word-by-word as I can, for anyone who wants to to copy and send to their representatives. One post I read suggested everyone send a copy of the 2nd Amendment the the entire Federal Government on July 4. In fact, if USA Carry will allow it, I will post my list of email addresses for the entire Federal Gov, in a format where you only have to send one letter; it will go to the entire list. Will that make it easier for anyone to voice their opinion where it might do some good? The individual states, who technically have no say in the matter, as it is covered in the Bill of Rights and therefore exclusive territory of the Federal Government, are up to you. Rather than support or bash me and my ravings, send an email to Congress; the whole damn bunch of them. What you think of me is so unimportant as to qualify as "Smoke and Mirrors". Even Jesus said, "A house divided against itself cannot stand. (sorry, I never can remember chapters and verses; maybe someone else would find that passage and post it correctly)".

Also keep in mind that the Founding Fathers were fighting a government on the other side of an ocean at war with France, received bookoo help from the French in the form of munitions and supplies, and had a whole continent to disappear into. who's going to help us? Where can we disappear to? For some reason (satelites, aerial surveilance, snitches, and so on), I don't see large groups of us "dug in" in some remote area for an extended conflict. act now, while you can, even if you believe it's already too late. Pray for a miracle, and don't shoot anyone unless you absolutely have to. Thanks. Keep your powder dry.

KBV
 

vn6869

New member
I agree, the government is untrustable. But I would like to add that it is not just THIS administration. Bush's agenda was the same as Obama's, as well as Clinton and Daddy Bush, etc. The policies never change, only the front men. Until we abolish rigged voting systems, and elect a President who stands for the People not just another NWO puppet, we will be in the same crap forever.

Sadly you are right, our rights and freedoms are being steadily eroded.
Obama and Clinton are just more direct (impatient) about it.
 

Spock

Venerable Sensei
We here in rural VA take our rights quite seriously

moonshinepic.jpg
 

AvidshooterTX

New member
If you are a male US citizen between 17 and 45 you are already part of the militia by US code.

TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > § 311Prev | Next § 311. Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia. Search this title:

Title 10 of the US Code as currently published by the US Government reflects the laws passed by Congress as of Jan. 5, 2009, and it is this version that is published here.
 

r4fthrs

New member
Here in Indiana we have had that concept since before I was born. They are called `sportsman' clubs they were in all most ever county and had range facilities for almost any shooting activity. Your motivation for belonging was entirely up to you, thus keeping it all below the liberal radar.
 

Bookwalter

Mandate church taxes!
Politics

Though Democrats may be more overt regarding weapons grabbing, it has been the Republicans who have more seriously eroded our economy, strengthening the 1% while making it more and more expensive for us average joes to get by. Did the assault weapons ban ever keep you from obtaining a weapon? Probably not, it just made them more expensive and fed the underground arms movement (criminals, thugs and thieves). Bush/Cheney bought their elections (the evidence is there, just look for it) and fought for the 1% and their associated oil/war buddies, which has, and continues to, do much more damage than the weapons ban ever did.

President Eisenhower said, in his farewell speech "Now this conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual --is felt in every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources, and livelihood are all involved. So is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."

Think Haliburton. Did you know Condoleeza Rice, Bush' Secretary of State, was a Director with Chevron, and has an oil tanker named after her? ( Link Removed ). There are many other instances I could rant about for days, and it's not just the Republicans. Our government is out of control.

Why do you suppose that we are taught to hate the French? We are told that they are unable to defend themselves, and are general whiners. But in France, the government fears their citizens. Without weapons or violence, the people gather together and stand against the government whenever they feel the government is overstepping their bounds. The people there have the ability to shut down the country, by simply organizing and demanding change. What a horrible example for us Americans. What shameful behavior by the French, standing up for themselves in the face of their government. We Americans and our freedoms could never stand for such civil disobedience. What do we think this is, a Democracy? This is a Capitalist country, no longer a Democracy. The government is bigger and has all the money, so they are in charge, who are we to question them? Get in line, and accept whats given to or taken from you. If you can't buy influence, don't expect to be heard, unless it's your dying squeal. Whats that, pry your weapon from your cold, dead hands? Sounds easier than taking it from a living, willful individual. Besides, what are you going to shoot with when there's no ammunition?
 

milkmood

Dodge this.
How The Swiss Do It...

Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state. -Thomas Jefferson

Yes...and this is how Switzerland functions even today. When a man leaves the military, he keeps the weapon(s) issued to him, and is expected to stand as a citizen military for a minimum of ten years after his departure from the Swiss military. It's just normal there.

Let Switzerland be an example. The twisty thing about that is...Switzerland is a socialist country. Read this:

Gun politics in Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

rayven

New member
The militia consists of all able bodied people who would be able to fight for the nation should it ever be needed.

The term "well regulated" means "well armed", based on the writing style of the late 18th century.

To pare the second amendment down to modern writing, it would read something like:

"A well armed citizenry, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the citizens to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
 

Piece Corps

New member
It was missed in the original post that a mere 3% of the population of the colonies at the time of the Revolution actually defended the country. Three per cent! Today, this would amount to around 3,000,000 people with guns. That is not a number to ignore, and the government knows these numbers very well.

And I don't think that Obama wants to start seeing shoot-outs at private residences when they come for our guns. Which WILL happen if they decide to go "Branch Davidian" on us. This won't be a replay of Nazi Germany, folks.

If Obama had the power that he thinks he has, we'd be mired in health care by now, there would be cap & trade, and the unions would control every job in America. Hasn't happened yet, and that is because the people are waking up and doing something about it. Why do you think Democrats are resigning left and right? Obama's fairy tale is crumbling, and if he want;s it to get worse, he can try to take our guns away.

I don't think that's gonna happen!
 

G50AE

Well-known member
Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of a social organization, like Knights of Columbus or the local country club, consisting of citizens sharing a common interest: firearm safety. No maneuvers, no LE, just a group that meets a couple times a month to discuss gun safety, laws, etc, and possibly do some shooting. Have a guset speaker from the NRA, LE, Handguns Inc. (defusing the "us against them" mindset), hopefully with the cooperstion of local LE. Already thought about possible ramifications; LE knowing who has what, that sort of thing, bu if you are a legitimate gun owner, they probably already know anyway.

The goal is to provide an alternative view of the much-demonized "gun nut", dressed in camo, arguing the 2nd Ammendment with anyone who will listen, skulking around in search of someone to shoot and get away with it. The group I have in mind could sponsor public gun safety seminars, perhaps even working with the schools in some capacity. The major focus would be on gun safety and responsible use/ownership. No "tactical field training, public demonstrations, keep it as a-politcal as possible. Perhaps an occassional letter to the paper, carefully written so as not to alarm the dis-armers.

If we are going to keep our guns legally, we dare not sit on our haunches and wait for someone else to win the battle. We need to show the avrage gun owner as they really are; the next-door-neighbor, football coach, accountant, EMT, doctor, and so on, not just the Freemen of Montana, Hinkleys and Chapmans, and gang-bangers. We need to take a firm stance against vigilanteism, armed citizens patrolling the neighborhoods, and so on. We have police, etc, for that.


The type of orginization that you are describing, already exists. It was founded shortly after the civil war by several Union Army generals, including its first president, Ambrose Burnsides. Today it is America's oldest and largest civil rights orginization. It's called the National Rifle Association. You should realy check them out. Their website is NRA
 

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