Wayne LaPierre SHOULD step down...

BluesStringer

Les Brers
Figured I'd play off the April Fools joke-thread and talk seriously about leadership at the N R A for a little bit.

So you guys and gals have heard of the NY SAFE Act, right? You may or may not be aware that there are some angry voices in NY demanding it be repealed, demanding Cuomo be run out of office on a rail etc. etc. In other words, they're engaging in political speech, not riots, not murder, not even more than politically rhetorical "threats" like the aforementioned. Whether or not they have the numbers to bring such threats to fruition is a political process question, not a question of manners, decorum, legalities or anything else. They're pissed, they're making some noise, end of story.

And what is the N R A doing to support their right to free speech to make that noise? Read it and weep:


BY Herschel Smith
April 1, 2014


"In my “Albany Insider” column today, I wrote how Tom King, the head of the state Rifle & Pistol Association, was critical of the increasingly angry and inflammatory rhetoric at pro-gun rallies. King said he fears that the ugliness that has popped up at the rallies is actually hurting the pro-gun cause. He also said it’s time to stop the rallies, arguing that they won’t result in a repeal of the SAFE Act. He wants to instead focus on trying to get the law struck down in the court …"



I won’t post his silly letter, but I thought it would be appropriate to highlight this paragraph.


"Fellow gun owners I submit this to you for your consideration. We will never convert the 22% rabid anti-gunners, we don’t have to convert the 32% avid pro gunners but we must convert a sizable portion of the 46% of those somewhere in between if we want to retain our 2nd Amendment Rights long term. These are the soccer moms, the guys who say I’ve never shot a gun but would like to try it and the people worried about their safety. How do we do that? Not by standing on stage screaming obscenities at Cuomo and certainly at large rallies where people stand on stage, pound their chest and tell the attendees to prepare for war. That frightens the very people we want to attract to our side, the people who will insure (sic) 2nd Amendment Rights for our grandchildren."


As a sidebar comment, the people he wants to attract will not insure (sic) 2nd amendment rights for our grandchildren. But second, this letter is as emblematic of everything that’s wrong with the NRA as I’ve ever seen. It’s the perfect example of how not to think about our rights.

The strategy he advocates is why we’re where we are, among other reasons like loss of our national moral conscience. He wants first to turn to the black robes, and failing that (as it certainly will fail and has already failed), he wants to turn to popular opinion.

Like so many other NRA board members, he wants to be oh-so-respectable and loved by the people. Don’t appear extreme and scary, says he. Never mind the warnings that should be issued to the collectivists should they continue with their pursuit of confiscation and onerous laws and harassment. Never mind that they could be declaring war as an unintended consequence of their lust for power. Don’t be scary to the people we want to persuade....

.....Until the NRA board of directors is as convinced of the foundations of their rights as I am, they will be a weak and neutered organization, fit for nothing much except a good magazine once a month.

(More at link)


So these weak-kneed powder-puffs who are too afraid to speak a terse word to tyrants are the "extremists" that are supposedly the "800 lb. gorilla in the room" standing firm against the gun-control tide? What has their appeasing drivel gotten us as far as restoration of the rights that they participated in stealing? JPFO has referred to them as "America's largest gun control organization." No less than the American Bar Association Journal exposed their duplicitous fund-raising strategy during the run-up to Heller being heard at SCOTUS. NRA's support for the NFA of '34 is now 80-year-old historical fact, and yet gun-owners whose rights keep twirling down the toilet that is the government overreach that gun-control act started keep sending the money year in, and year out. For what? So you can be lectured to about how to talk nice to tyrants and not scare the sheeple?

Maybe members should better understand N R A's fanatical support for Link Removed which regulates all manner of gun issues from "properly permitting" concealed carriers to regulating how parents must interact with their children on gun issues. When the "Winning Team" consists of the N R A combining with The Brady Campaign, doesn't that just make your member's innards all warm and fuzzy?

I say F the tyrants and F the sheeple. My rights are not up for compromise, and that's the only bargaining chip the N R A has ever played. They are now trying to talk NY gun owners out of the righteous indignation and anger they're perfectly entitled and well within their rights to express to the tyrants in Albany stealing their rights out from under them.

The April Fool's joke thread is only funny because Wayne LaPierre and the rest of the limp-wristed leadership of the N R A is such a joke.

And if you're in NY, go out and make some freakin' noise, as much in protest to your government's tyranny as to the N R A asking you to appease it.

Blues
 
Figured I'd play off the April Fools joke-thread and talk seriously about leadership at the N R A for a little bit.

So you guys and gals have heard of the NY SAFE Act, right? You may or may not be aware that there are some angry voices in NY demanding it be repealed, demanding Cuomo be run out of office on a rail etc. etc. In other words, they're engaging in political speech, not riots, not murder, not even more than politically rhetorical "threats" like the aforementioned. Whether or not they have the numbers to bring such threats to fruition is a political process question, not a question of manners, decorum, legalities or anything else. They're pissed, they're making some noise, end of story.

And what is the N R A doing to support their right to free speech to make that noise? Read it and weep:


BY Herschel Smith
April 1, 2014


"In my “Albany Insider” column today, I wrote how Tom King, the head of the state Rifle & Pistol Association, was critical of the increasingly angry and inflammatory rhetoric at pro-gun rallies. King said he fears that the ugliness that has popped up at the rallies is actually hurting the pro-gun cause. He also said it’s time to stop the rallies, arguing that they won’t result in a repeal of the SAFE Act. He wants to instead focus on trying to get the law struck down in the court …"



I won’t post his silly letter, but I thought it would be appropriate to highlight this paragraph.


"Fellow gun owners I submit this to you for your consideration. We will never convert the 22% rabid anti-gunners, we don’t have to convert the 32% avid pro gunners but we must convert a sizable portion of the 46% of those somewhere in between if we want to retain our 2nd Amendment Rights long term. These are the soccer moms, the guys who say I’ve never shot a gun but would like to try it and the people worried about their safety. How do we do that? Not by standing on stage screaming obscenities at Cuomo and certainly at large rallies where people stand on stage, pound their chest and tell the attendees to prepare for war. That frightens the very people we want to attract to our side, the people who will insure (sic) 2nd Amendment Rights for our grandchildren."


As a sidebar comment, the people he wants to attract will not insure (sic) 2nd amendment rights for our grandchildren. But second, this letter is as emblematic of everything that’s wrong with the NRA as I’ve ever seen. It’s the perfect example of how not to think about our rights.

The strategy he advocates is why we’re where we are, among other reasons like loss of our national moral conscience. He wants first to turn to the black robes, and failing that (as it certainly will fail and has already failed), he wants to turn to popular opinion.

Like so many other NRA board members, he wants to be oh-so-respectable and loved by the people. Don’t appear extreme and scary, says he. Never mind the warnings that should be issued to the collectivists should they continue with their pursuit of confiscation and onerous laws and harassment. Never mind that they could be declaring war as an unintended consequence of their lust for power. Don’t be scary to the people we want to persuade....

.....Until the NRA board of directors is as convinced of the foundations of their rights as I am, they will be a weak and neutered organization, fit for nothing much except a good magazine once a month.

(More at link)


So these weak-kneed powder-puffs who are too afraid to speak a terse word to tyrants are the "extremists" that are supposedly the "800 lb. gorilla in the room" standing firm against the gun-control tide? What has their appeasing drivel gotten us as far as restoration of the rights that they participated in stealing? JPFO has referred to them as "America's largest gun control organization." No less than the American Bar Association Journal exposed their duplicitous fund-raising strategy during the run-up to Heller being heard at SCOTUS. NRA's support for the NFA of '34 is now 80-year-old historical fact, and yet gun-owners whose rights keep twirling down the toilet that is the government overreach that gun-control act started keep sending the money year in, and year out. For what? So you can be lectured to about how to talk nice to tyrants and not scare the sheeple?

Maybe members should better understand N R A's fanatical support for Link Removed which regulates all manner of gun issues from "properly permitting" concealed carriers to regulating how parents must interact with their children on gun issues. When the "Winning Team" consists of the N R A combining with The Brady Campaign, doesn't that just make your member's innards all warm and fuzzy?

I say F the tyrants and F the sheeple. My rights are not up for compromise, and that's the only bargaining chip the N R A has ever played. They are now trying to talk NY gun owners out of the righteous indignation and anger they're perfectly entitled and well within their rights to express to the tyrants in Albany stealing their rights out from under them.

The April Fool's joke thread is only funny because Wayne LaPierre and the rest of the limp-wristed leadership of the N R A is such a joke.

And if you're in NY, go out and make some freakin' noise, as much in protest to your government's tyranny as to the N R A asking you to appease it.

Blues




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
There has been a infiltration of anti-NRA, anti 2nd Amendment Rights people on this sight. And we know who you are. You are being blocked by me and many others.
 
Anti N R A = pro gun, anti gun control.

Anti 2nd = anti gun, pro gun control.

Pro N R A = pro most guns, pro gun control.

Pro 2nd = pro gun, anti gun control.

Go ahead and cover your ears and close your eyes. Not like many of the N R A members were informed anyways.

I think project exile is the perfect name for N R A members.


Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
 
There has been a infiltration of anti-NRA, anti 2nd Amendment Rights people on this sight. And we know who you are. You are being blocked by me and many others.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oooo, that's scary man. "We" know who you are, eh internet tough-guy? Bu-bu-bu-but if you have us on "ignore," how do you know who we are? I'm trying n-n-n-not to st-st-sta-mm-mm-mm-er through my shaking in my boots that you know "who" we are! That is some hilarious stuff right there, SR9.

If it were actually true that a bunch of sheep-like, knee-pad-wearin' taint-lickin'-denizens of the N R A thought me effective enough at telling the truth about that train-wreck of a betraying .org that they couldn't stand to read anything I post about it, I would consider that a high accomplishment in life. But alas, the very fact that this N R A drone posted in direct reply to something I wrote, I know I have fallen short. I will continue to endeavor to earn your scorn, sheeple of the N R A, because as another true constitutional Patriot and unassailable warrior for the 2nd Amendment once said, "It is better to be despised by the despicable than to be admired by the admirable." - Mike Vanderboegh from the steps of the CT Capitol Bldg. - April, 2013.

Have you considered a career in comedy, SR9? Me "anti-2nd Amendment?" You wouldn't know the meaning of the 2nd Amendment if it shot you right between the eyes. But your little boy's level of understanding sure is cute as a button! HA!

Blues
 
I suggest we all just keep reading OUR "Bill of Rights" so we know exactly what our freedoms are in this country. I don't think they even teach much about the Constitution in schools any more. It's my opinion that the government is trying to "dumb down " society to program us to be dependent on them. We all still have our own opinions, but our written rights do not change!
 
So this is what the N R A is supporting by their refusal to participate in any demonstrations. Watch as a Patriot is "disarmed" of his toy AR-15 and a cardboard cutout of an AR-15. This is the kind of "increasingly angry and inflammatory rhetoric at pro-gun rallies" that the head of the NY N R A-affiliated Rifle & Pistol Association thinks should be tamped down. The cops should be arrested and charged with theft, and the NYR&PA should unload the dead weight of their current leadership and find someone willing to allow its membership the anger and indignation the State has wrought for itself.


 
you're a rather angry person today blues, why don't you relax and take a break from insulting random people on the internet. you'll be happier. :happy:
 
The N R A isn't a perfect organization, and lord knows I don't agree with everything I've read from them, but they are an organization doing something towards protecting our 2nd Amendment Rights, and I believe Something is better than Nothing.

What other National Organizations are working to this end that people like myself can consider donating towards?
 
you're a rather angry person today blues, why don't you relax and take a break from insulting random people on the internet. you'll be happier. :happy:

Do I know you? Or you me? What "random" people have I insulted? I posted an article that named the head of the NY R&PA who is withdrawing his .org's support for demonstrations because people are just a tad bit pissed off over having their rights trampled by the SAFE Act. Nothing random at all about the people I'm either casting insults towards, or that I am insulted by. As per usual, the N R A and its state-level affiliates' leadership are a bunch of spineless wimps, demanding that their membership talk nice to tyrants or stay out of sight. It's amazing that any and every gun-owner in America isn't incensed over such pusillanimity, but here you are bustin' my chops instead of the cowards of the N R A. What's up with that?

The N R A isn't a perfect organization, and lord knows I don't agree with everything I've read from them, but they are an organization doing something towards protecting our 2nd Amendment Rights, and I believe Something is better than Nothing.

Can you cite what it is they're doing towards protecting our rights? I can cite dozens of betrayals, and have done so many times over the last couple of years. They have one bargaining chip; our rights. They use our rights to bargain compromises. Is that what you pay them to do, compromise your rights away a little piece at a time? I paid 'em year in and year out for over 20 years until I figured out the truth about 'em. I get it. Something seems better than nothing, but when that something is over 100 years worth of compromising with our rights, it adds up to nothing but betrayal and our rights being reduced to nothing but permissions and privileges that constitutional usurpers control, not the Constitution or the true source of them, God Almighty.

I will give you some suggested reading, which can be found here, Link Removed, here and here just for a start, but there is, sadly, much more ugly truth to be told about "America's largest gun control organization."

If you've got cites to show what they've done "for" us, they will be dwarfed in significance by what you have before you in just those five links. Please review them before challenging me on that statement.

What other National Organizations are working to this end that people like myself can consider donating towards?

None are perfect, but there's a huge chasm between lacking perfection and being tied to the worst pieces of gun control legislation in this country's history. So I'll go with endorsing GOA, SAF and JPFO without any fear of someone coming up with an instance of them supporting gun control, even if they aren't as strong in voicing their opposition to it as I would like. There are others too, but I didn't start this thread to tell everybody which .orgs they should support, I started it to tell folks (again) which phony gun rights .org doesn't support us.

Blues
 
So I'll go with endorsing GOA, SAF and JPFO without any fear of someone coming up with an instance of them supporting gun control, even if they aren't as strong in voicing their opposition to it as I would like.
SAF (Gottleib) supported Manchin-Toomey, a bad amendment to a bad bill. That is pretty much the definition of "supporting gun control." I am not suggesting you become anti-SAF, but this fact does contradict your statement.

http://youtu.be/9E_z1mynceY
 
---- Snip snip snip ------
None are perfect, but there's a huge chasm between lacking perfection and being tied to the worst pieces of gun control legislation in this country's history. So I'll go with endorsing GOA, SAF and JPFO without any fear of someone coming up with an instance of them supporting gun control, even if they aren't as strong in voicing their opposition to it as I would like. There are others too, but I didn't start this thread to tell everybody which .orgs they should support, I started it to tell folks (again) which phony gun rights .org doesn't support us.

Blues

That may be so, but when you disillusion us so thoroughly as you did with the links I snipped out, it always nice to have something with which to replace them.

My N R A membership is paid up until March of 2015, but in the meanwhile, I will certainly look into adding at least one or two of these others you have suggested when my funding will allow it. When I do, my by line will reflect it.
 
The rally was more impressive than the news outlets would have you believe. And Tom King, in my opinion should not be allowed to speak for gun owners anywhere. The guy was on a local talk radio show a few weeks back talking about the "Safe-Act" when a caller asked about registering his SKS. First thing is that the SKS with the fixed 10 round magazine doesn't need to be registered, no "pistol grip" and no detachable magazine. But it does have a bayonet lug, and that was the point that Mr. King played up. "Just grind off the bayonet lug", he says, "and you'll be OK." In other words, knuckle under peon. And then as Blues pointed out, King doesn't like the "rhetoric" at the rallies protesting the legislation. So, Tom King, stay away. Of course if we don't get all the apathetic voters who are gun owners out to vote this November, we'll have nobody but ourselves to blame. And in the next round of NRA board elections Tom King should be voted out. Along with Wayne Lapierre, but his position is probably untouchable.
 
That may be so, but when you disillusion us so thoroughly as you did with the links I snipped out, it always nice to have something with which to replace them.

"I" disillusioned you? Why is it not the liars and betrayers of the N R A who disillusioned you? All I did is provide you with exactly what you asked of me in answering who I think does a better job, and prior to that, challenged you to substantiate something you said. Instead of doing the latter, you put it on me that the N R A's failures and betrayals has caused you to become disillusioned with them. That's just weird.

SAF (Gottleib) supported Manchin-Toomey, a bad amendment to a bad bill. That is pretty much the definition of "supporting gun control." I am not suggesting you become anti-SAF, but this fact does contradict your statement.

The Second Amendment Foundation explains why it supported the Manchin-Toomey proposals - YouTube

I stand *technically* corrected. I also think both Heller and McDonald were argued from a much weaker position than the words of the 2nd Amendment would dictate, but nevertheless, SAF largely funded both of those cases and established themselves as being on the pro gun rights advocacy side of the equation. N R A's advocacy and propaganda support among its membership for NFA34, GCA68, FOPA86, as well as its complacency and cooperation with implementing Link Removed (AWB) makes your example of Gottleib's stumble rather pale in comparison to my way of thinking. I will concede however, that technically, you found an example that contradicts a previous statement of mine.

That said, while I fault Gottleib for supporting background checks in private sales in any way, didn't he say at the beginning of that video that his support for Manchin-Toomey was only offered as long as the proposals included several provisions about restoration of rights and limiting returning combat veterans' imposed status as mentally ill if they sought any kind of counseling after coming home? From the first question asked, it didn't sound like he supported the final draft because his proposals were "forgotten" to be included in it. That's why I say it's a "technically" correct mistake on my part. At one point he did support a gun control measure, but not at the point at which it was defeated is what I got from that interview. Read the links in my previous post and you will find that the N R A has no such inconsistencies. They have supported gun control since their inception according to one of their own VPs.

You'd have made more headway with me if you had actually addressed the links and my attending accusations of the N R A's betrayals, than going searching for a minor stumble by Gottleib in a supposed "gotcha moment" about a bill that never passed, and doesn't appear to have had Gottleib's support by the time it was defeated anyway.

Blues
 
"I" disillusioned you? Why is it not the liars and betrayers of the N R A who disillusioned you? All I did is provide you with exactly what you asked of me in answering who I think does a better job, and prior to that, challenged you to substantiate something you said. Instead of doing the latter, you put it on me that the N R A's failures and betrayals has caused you to become disillusioned with them. That's just weird.

Heh... The links you provided did the disillusioning ok? You are a very knowledgeable person in gun rights. Please take that as the compliment it was intended and not as an insult.
 
And I said YOU did the disillusioning, because you presented the N R A's failures and betrayals all in one neat little package for me to read!
 

New Threads

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
49,523
Messages
610,661
Members
74,992
Latest member
RedDotArmsTraining
Back
Top