Wasp spray

[walt629]

I've read often about the carry of less than lethal means of personal protection and usually the discussion turns to sprays. We've all hear of the wide selections of pepper spray and all the derivatives.

But here is one I personally never heard of until I read an article written by a woman about self-defense. I'll have to see if I can find the article and post it, but anyway, my wife and I were talking about a friend that is totally against firearms but has two small girls and spends time home alone with them because her husband has to travel for his job.

My wife brought up the article and the use of common 'around the house' remedies for home/personal defense. One common household ingredient that is often over looked, readily available and absolutely no law prevents the transport of it.

Wasp spray. The kind that shoots a pressurized stream about 25 feet. Readily available at any home improvement or home and garden store.

The big can is kind of cumbersome but what do we think about the use / carry of a can in the car or keeping one handy around the house?

 

[eXGee11]

Read the label. Using it contrary to directions is a crime and you will be prosecuted if you use it like pepper spray. Mostly because it can permanently blind someone. Now if you just happened to have some...

 

[luv2shoot]

I get the wasp spray email/spam often and here's my standard response:

If one is trying to use a non-lethal form of defense, pesticides are worse than OC spray as they are poisonous and can be lethal and less effective. There has been no testing on humans so they're effectiveness is unreliable. We know how effective OC is with the worst assailants; it's a better option. OC canisters can spray just as far or further and you can get a stream, cone, or fog pattern.

With a pesticide can, you have to KNOW you have the nozzle pointed in the right direction. How easy is that with any spray can without looking first? Might you spray yourself in the face in an emergency? OC canisters are made so you can't accidentally spray yourself.

If the over-spray gets in your face, would you rather have poison or something you know won't permanently damage you?

You can't just spray someone who is 20' away from you because at that distance, you most likely won't be in immediate fear for your life (the law defines what constitutes this). If your attacker starts at 20' away, then suddenly rushes you, he'll reach you in under two seconds. Will you be able to accurately wield that spray can and hit the bad guy in the eyes? The same question applies to any weapon, but some are better than others for quick defense. This only highlights the need to be prepared for hand-to-hand defense and probably a more effective (quickest stopping effect) tool beyond hands for when you're attacker is right on you.

Your workplace, or federal or state laws, may not allow you to have a pesticide out in the open.

If one is not wanting to buy OC because of it's price, it isn't that expensive (how much is your life worth?) - $9 for a 25-shot keychain canister. Also, trying to carry a pesticide concealed is difficult and unsafe (OC canisters have a safety).

You can be prosecuted for purposely using a pesticide as a weapon.

Just because a cop says something, doesn't mean it's true. Many cops don't know all laws and/or are not up-to-date. Lawyers and judges know the law, prosecutors decide whether to charge you and for what, and juries can get a piece of you after that.

Everyone should know federal, state, and local laws regarding the use of any weapon, what is legal, when they can use it, and what constitutes a legal defense situation. This is really the most important thing to know before you choose a weapon for self-defense.

OC is available from many sources, but you have to know where it's legal to use it and what volume you can have in certain places. You can get large sizes for your home. If you want to use it for travel, you have to check the laws for the state/localities you'll be in.

 

[Keykutter]

I get the wasp spray email/spam often and here's my standard response:

If one is trying to use a non-lethal form of defense, pesticides are worse than OC spray as they are poisonous and can be lethal and less effective. There has been no testing on humans so they're effectiveness is unreliable. We know how effective OC is with the worst assailants; it's a better option. OC canisters can spray just as far or further and you can get a stream, cone, or fog pattern.

With a pesticide can, you have to KNOW you have the nozzle pointed in the right direction. How easy is that with any spray can without looking first? Might you spray yourself in the face in an emergency? OC canisters are made so you can't accidentally spray yourself.

If the over-spray gets in your face, would you rather have poison or something you know won't permanently damage you?

You can't just spray someone who is 20' away from you because at that distance, you most likely won't be in immediate fear for your life (the law defines what constitutes this). If your attacker starts at 20' away, then suddenly rushes you, he'll reach you in under two seconds. Will you be able to accurately wield that spray can and hit the bad guy in the eyes? The same question applies to any weapon, but some are better than others for quick defense. This only highlights the need to be prepared for hand-to-hand defense and probably a more effective (quickest stopping effect) tool beyond hands for when you're attacker is right on you.

Your workplace, or federal or state laws, may not allow you to have a pesticide out in the open.

If one is not wanting to buy OC because of it's price, it isn't that expensive (how much is your life worth?) - $9 for a 25-shot keychain canister. Also, trying to carry a pesticide concealed is difficult and unsafe (OC canisters have a safety).

You can be prosecuted for purposely using a pesticide as a weapon.

Just because a cop says something, doesn't mean it's true. Many cops don't know all laws and/or are not up-to-date. Lawyers and judges know the law, prosecutors decide whether to charge you and for what, and juries can get a piece of you after that.

Everyone should know federal, state, and local laws regarding the use of any weapon, what is legal, when they can use it, and what constitutes a legal defense situation. This is really the most important thing to know before you choose a weapon for self-defense.

OC is available from many sources, but you have to know where it's legal to use it and what volume you can have in certain places. You can get large sizes for your home. If you want to use it for travel, you have to check the laws for the state/localities you'll be in.

Man, what a party pooper :lol:

KK

 

[walt629]

The whole concept of the article (still haven't found it and I gave up searching) was methods that the average housewife/woman could use to defend themselves in lieu of deadly force. I thought the wasp spray was a good idea.

And who the heck reads or adheres to the government warnings on the can?

 

[Treo]

The whole concept of the article (still haven't found it and I gave up searching) was methods that the average housewife/woman could use to defend themselves in lieu of deadly force. I thought the wasp spray was a good idea.

And who the heck reads or adheres to the government warnings on the can?

What part of it IS deadly force do you not get?

 

[walt629]

What part of it IS deadly force do you not get?

Actually it is not lethal to humans in the dose an attacker would get hit with if the wasp spray was used in a defensive fashion the same way one would use OC, Spray and run. Now if one were to hold down the perpetrator after he/she was incapacitated and the entire contents of a 20 ounce can was sprayed directly into the lungs, that would be a different matter all together.

This has part of the article I was referring to in the OP. snopes.com: Wasp Spray

Follow the links to additional information. Someone already said the there are regulations mandating the use of the product so I understand that aspect. But judging by some of the responses here, it tells me wasp spray would work real well as a defensive devise in a pinch.

 

[walt629]

WASP Injection Systems, Inc. - WASP Injection Knife

A diver friend of mine has one of those. It is just NASTY! He tried it on a fare size copia he landed and it exploded the fish. Might come in handy in a shark attack. Hate to see what it would do to a BG!

 

[luv2shoot]

WASP knife...I'm thinking there's got to be a law against that form of dispatch. If I can get a knife that far into the BG, do I really need to blow him up?

walt629...you may be correct. But since we KNOW the effects of OC spray, why take a chance with bug sprays? What if someone is allergic enough to insecticides to die from a smaller dose? If there's a chance of death, then the person who wants a NON-LETHAL method can't be guaranteed one with insecticides.

Not being trained or fully informed on OC spray, I also wonder if a non-direct exposure to it is more effective than a non-direct exposure to insecticides. I spray wasps/hornets during the summer and that stuff gets in my face (eyes closed by the time it reaches me) cause I have to spray up in the air and have to be almost underneath it (25' my butt! - maybe an effective 10'). I've never had a reaction to it. I don't know if the same can be said of OC spray. So...if wifey isn't well-trained in it's use, how effective will she be and will the BG just haul butt through it and knock her down and pound away?

Larger bear spray (which don't appear very effective on humans (youtube)) and OC spray canisters can produce a much more effective projection of their contents. I would still recommend them over insecticides.

More food for thought.

 

[walt629]

If one is trying to use a non-lethal form of defense, pesticides are worse than OC spray as they are poisonous and can be lethal and less effective. There has been no testing on humans so they're effectiveness is unreliable. We know how effective OC is with the worst assailants; it's a better option. OC canisters can spray just as far or further and you can get a stream, cone, or fog pattern.

Okay. I AM going to be argumentative here. What I have read on line (no I don't have a can of wasp spray in my hand right now to read) tells me the key ingredients in today's wasp sprays is a combination of natural compounds that are not lethal to humans. (No I did not review every single wasp spray on the market)

With a pesticide can, you have to KNOW you have the nozzle pointed in the right direction. How easy is that with any spray can without looking first? Might you spray yourself in the face in an emergency? OC canisters are made so you can't accidentally spray yourself.

Every can of wasp spray I have seen (limited) is absolutely directional. Only a complete idiot could shoot themselves with one. But then again the same can be said for OC dispensers.

If the over-spray gets in your face, would you rather have poison or something you know won't permanently damage you?

Actually, neither.

You can't just spray someone who is 20' away from you because at that distance, you most likely won't be in immediate fear for your life (the law defines what constitutes this). If your attacker starts at 20' away, then suddenly rushes you, he'll reach you in under two seconds. Will you be able to accurately wield that spray can and hit the bad guy in the eyes? The same question applies to any weapon, but some are better than others for quick defense. This only highlights the need to be prepared for hand-to-hand defense and probably a more effective (quickest stopping effect) tool beyond hands for when you're attacker is right on you.

L2S, the OP was regarding a stay at home mom who is adamantly against guns in the house with her 2 young girls. Wasp spray and OC are a survivable accident in the hands of an 8 year old versus a .40cal gun.

If she were at home in her kitchen and some bad guy kicks in the back door, a 20 foot long squirt is a darned good idea. In fact a 30 footer would be better in my book but I doubt you can expect that even out of the best OC unit available.

Not everyone that needs to be protected has a combat mind set but they very well may have a "protect the kids" mindset. And at that time when the back door goes crash, I don't think negative consequences to the bad guy's health is going to come to mind, do you?

Your workplace, or federal or state laws, may not allow you to have a pesticide out in the open.

Too true, but the question was not posed with any particular place in mind. The OP question was about the effectiveness of the use of wasp spray as a deterrent.

If one is not wanting to buy OC because of it's price, it isn't that expensive (how much is your life worth?) - $9 for a 25-shot keychain canister. Also, trying to carry a pesticide concealed is difficult and unsafe (OC canisters have a safety).

This wasn't about the cost of what someones life is worth to them. But you're right, if a house wife want to be prepared, a good OC unit would be best to have handy. As far as concealing the larger OC units, try concealing the one that is as big as a small fire extinguisher! LOL!

You can be prosecuted for purposely using a pesticide as a weapon.

True. But in a situation that would force one to grab a can of wasp spray in self defense, prosecution for the misuse of a product would most likely be the last thing in ones train of thought.

Just because a cop says something, doesn't mean it's true. Many cops don't know all laws and/or are not up-to-date. Lawyers and judges know the law, prosecutors decide whether to charge you and for what, and juries can get a piece of you after that.

Where did the cops come into this?

[qoute]Everyone should know federal, state, and local laws regarding the use of any weapon, what is legal, when they can use it, and what constitutes a legal defense situation. This is really the most important thing to know before you choose a weapon for self-defense.[/quote]

Can you tell me what the law is regarding the use of a very sharp lead pencil as a defensive weapon? The OP was about using house hold items as defensive weapons in a pinch. Knowing the legal ramifications of using a sharp pencil, a rolling pin or a can of wasp spray in a defensive situation is ridiculous.

When the police arrive after the 911 call and find a hysterical, crying mother clutching to her 2 young girls, see the smashed in back door and hear how she defended herself and children from attack with a can of wasp spray, I doubt they will arrest her for using the product in a manner it was not intended for.

OC is available from many sources, but you have to know where it's legal to use it and what volume you can have in certain places. You can get large sizes for your home. If you want to use it for travel, you have to check the laws for the state/localities you'll be in.

No doubt you are absolutely correct about this. I would much rather see OC used in a "mother at home" situation but going back to the OP....

 

[walt629]

WASP knife...I'm thinking there's got to be a law against that form of dispatch. If I can get a knife that far into the BG, do I really need to blow him up?

walt629...you may be correct. But since we KNOW the effects of OC spray, why take a chance with bug sprays? What if someone is allergic enough to insecticides to die from a smaller dose? If there's a chance of death, then the person who wants a NON-LETHAL method can't be guaranteed one with insecticides.

Not being trained or fully informed on OC spray, I also wonder if a non-direct exposure to it is more effective than a non-direct exposure to insecticides. I spray wasps/hornets during the summer and that stuff gets in my face (eyes closed by the time it reaches me) cause I have to spray up in the air and have to be almost underneath it (25' my butt! - maybe an effective 10'). I've never had a reaction to it. I don't know if the same can be said of OC spray. So...if wifey isn't well-trained in it's use, how effective will she be and will the BG just haul butt through it and knock her down and pound away?

Larger bear spray (which don't appear very effective on humans (youtube)) and OC spray canisters can produce a much more effective projection of their contents. I would still recommend them over insecticides.

More food for thought.

Hey L2S, I'm not arguing the benefits of OC over wasp spray. The OP question was how do you think it would work as a deterrent. Judging by some of the responses the OP has gotten, we are in consensus that it would work but the consequences for the bad guy could possibly be worse than if he got hit with OC.

Yeah, I think the only wasp spray that lived up to it's 20 foot claim was the one with the shield on the label (can't remember the brand name). And that sucker not only went a good 20 feet but it darn near knocked the nest off the tree branch! I can only imagine what that would do to some BG!

Thanks for the spirited discussion!

 

[luv2shoot]

There are many situational possibilities and I see all the points offered here. My original response wasn't restated to address only the OP - although I guess it should've been. However, I left it as is to address many situations because the wasp spray thing comes up usually because of the spam thing that snopes was referring to. I was trying to kill several birds with one stone.

I'll add that if the housewife purposely plans to use wasp spray, how does "in a pinch" look then? The pre-meditated intent of protection is, IMO, a plan of combat whether defensive (protecting the kids) or offensive. Granted, she doesn't have to admit such to LE post-incident. However, we don't need to get into semantics as I understand the generalities of what is being said here.

I'll adjust my future responses though as you've added some good things.

As for the WASP knife, that was more of a tongue-in-cheek thing. Don't we all like to blow stuff up?!

 

[Deserteagle]

Wasp spray sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen, including paying medical bills. Remember the burglar that fell on the home owner's knife in the kitchen? The home owner had to pay the burglar's medical bills.
Regarding wasp spray specifically, I spray that on big bee hives all the time at work and it takes forever to actually kill a bee, so why would I assume it is going to save my life against an aggravated human, possible one high on drugs?
This is the way I see it with all less than lethal options: Our job is not to detain anyone like police. If a situation is bad, escape it, call police. If a situation is life threatening, escape it, call police. If you cant do escape, use lethal force.

 

[mike2010]

Wasp spray for self defense is a bad idea. It is a myth! Stick with the Pepper Spray. Wasp spray is unproven and has never been tested on humans. Wasp Spray will NOT work on those who cannot feel pain i.e. drugs or alcohol. Pepper Spray is an inflammatory which will cause the eyes to slam shut no matter the situation. That’s why over 40,000 law enforcement agencies carry it nationwide and even the smallest canisters will fire 10 ft while the larger canisters will fire 25 to 30 ft.

 

[kelcarry]

Hey Y'all: Let us say that wasp spray works effectively but its use is firmly determined as being for the killing of wasps. What are the odds that you will EVER use the spray? I do not know where many of you live and sometimes I think many of you live in central downtown Baghdad, but will you ever use the spray? So I spent a few more dollars and I purchased a cannister of bear spray---it is a repellant, it sprays to 30 ft, it will stop a bear, it is not a pesticide that has its own rules for use and potentially damaging physical and legal consequences, and, as told to me by law enforcement and mentioned in replies, using a non-pesticide/pepper based spray (legal or otherwise, depending, usually on the size of the cannister) when in
imminent danger is preferred to discharging a firearm causing big time injury or death.

 

[golddigger14s]

My daughter has OC spray, but if she was attacked and used WASP spray, I would sell the house to defend her. But the lady should just get some OC spray, it's so cheap to get a key chain one these days.