Wal-Mart local no CC nothin in Spokane, WA.

[Canis-Lupus]

Posting this to the WA state 2nd Amnd forum for obvious reasons.
Old thread/gripe that [IMHO] does not need a lot of feedback, just an optional
store boycott for WA concealed carry citizens in my a/o. Your call.
Each Wal-Mart does it's own thing when it comes to 'Gun-Free Zones'.
28 Jan went to the Wal-Mart on Airway Heights (HWY 2) just outside (west) of
Spokane city limits, a new (2008 opened) store. Was packing a Walther PPK S1
well out of sight under a heavy green (non-military issue) stylish field jacket,
also sporting a U.S. flag pin and some other patriotic stuff on my
U.S. Army Retired BB-cap, nice jeans and snow boots. 20F outside snow on ground. Brrr!
Walked up to the guy outside & asked if he worked there, kind of
easy to peg with his red/white clip-on Wal-Mart ID. Politely asked him:
"Can I enter to buy a Casio G-Shock watch?" after I told him
I was carrying a concealed pistol and was I allowed inside with a
small totally concealed pistol & a current/legal
WA state CCW permit, which I showed him, not a requirement I know, 10am.
He went inside and I waited outside looking for any 'No Weapons' signs, none posted of course.
10.10am: He came back out looking nervous and told me "No!" So I got in my car & went home,
then bought the same item on Amazon.com for $44.
Cheaper than the $60 they had theirs listed at by searching Wal-Mart.com!
It is something no one would have known if I hadn't asked (dummy!) and
just went inside. So I left in the snow, drove home and got the exact same model online.
They don't even sell real ammo or gun anything in there anymore,
just plenty of lo-grade BB guns & made in China archery equipment crap.
This is FYI and I didn't feel like pointing out that most other Wal-Marts in
state allow CCW's inside & invisible, someone even posted they went into one with an OC
and got good treatment. I think I would be posting this after I posted bail
had a store security goon had their X-Ray glasses on, suffice
to say even though it's the closest large W-M mega-store to my home,
I won't be going in there ever again. I should have told him that this
is an OC state, but I figured even lifting up my jacket & showing this fella my (no bulge) leather
custom wrap around belly holster closed would have had him calling 911 & diving for cover!
Wonder what they would have charged me with had they found me inside
packing if I had acted other than any other normal customer. Probably just told me to leave. :sad:
Or maybe sent me to 'Das Wal-Mart' weapons desensitizing camp in N. Alaska for customer 're-education',
some water-boarding 'fun' and volts 2 my nuts may have had me all sheeple-washed & back buying some
'dangerous' Easter Bunny slippers (made by child labor in Mexico)! :butcher:

Canis-Lupus

 

[LVLouisCyphre]

Now why did you ask if you could carry? If it's not a statutory prohibited area, it's legal. When you ask, you empower them with the ability to trespass you from the premises while having a lawfully concealed firearm. If you're going to ask all the time, then you might as well just carry openly because that's essentially what you're doing by asking.

 

[Canis-Lupus]

Curiosity, a sense of moral courage/duty to stay lawful, the right thing to do and many other reasons like many CCW citizens assume a place is CCW friendly until they find out the back part of the joint (Dennys maybe) sells alcohol, oops, can't go in there can U with any pistol! Then what? Or it's a coffee joint 95 meters from an adult educational facilty 3 stories up U never knew was up there. As a CCW Instructor U assme I should carry wherever the law says is legal knowing the fickle nature of Wal-Mart nationwide, hit some groups and read the state by state posts, check out their stories. Like I said this applies to one Wal-Mart in one small town that is getting a LOT of armed robberies in supermarket chains in Spokane, WA, maybe not in your OC/full-auto neck of the woods/state. Ignorance of the laws, rules and regs even private ones is seldome a good defense once the gun comes out of the holster. Thanks and don't bother with a retort unless U shop in the very same Wal-Mart I never will again.
And BTW it's a question I ask often if I don't know in many places I visit for the 1st time and 90% say "No problems, just keep it hidden." Where they know me well and know I pack it's not an issue. The others who say "No CCW's" I don't frequent. Try it. It may keep you out of jail! Much appreciated for your astute & generalized feedback.
WA state feedback is useful, the other 49 have many other places on USA Carry to surf/post. :victory:

C-L

 

[LVLouisCyphre]

The problem with the way you're doing it is in States where signage has force of law it prompts the business to post signage so guess what you ruined it for every other CCW holder (civilian and LEOSA holder) that may utilize that establishment as they may post or utilize metal detectors after your actions. Your actions may have further repercussions of having bills introduced in your State legislature adding prohibited areas because you're needlessly alarming the public and business owners.

I preach in my classes know the law; don't ask, don't tell. If you ask, the answer will 99% of the time be no. If you're concealing effectively they will not know.

It's your responsibility to know the laws regarding lawful CCW just as it is your responsibility to know the traffic laws in the area you're driving in. Asking if you can carry in an establishment that does not post or have metal detectors it just as asinine as asking a traffic LEO standing next to you if you can make a U-turn at a given controlled intersection.

If you don't know, ask someone who is knowledgeable or consult one of the many online resources. Unfortunately in the States that have no training requirement (NH and WA) or no license or permit required (AK and VT) there is a shortage of knowledgeable CCW holders because of the lack of training required to CCW. Fortunately in NH it's not an issue because there are virtually no prohibited areas for CCW.

The law for WA is the establishment has to be posted as 21 or over for it to be prohibited. WalMart has a corporate policy of allowing lawful CCW. If a store prohibits lawful CCW, make a call to Bentonville AR or e-mail WalMart corporate and it will get fixed because it was set by the store manager, not WalMart corporate. I also know that there is not a single Denny's in the entire US that has a liquor license, they did away with that several years ago.

The actual RCWs for where you cannot legally CCW in WA are 9.41.280, 9.41.300 and 70.108.150.

As a WA CPL holder, you should have those RCWs memorized or at the very least be able to tell any LEO, attorney or judge what they are and where you can and cannot carry as a WA CPL holder in addition to the federal prohibited areas. If you don't understand them that well then perhaps you deserve to wear an orange jumpsuit with matching wrist and ankle bracelets for up to 10 years.

Signage has no force of law in any of those instances on private property in WA. However that may change if you don't change your habits about how you CCW as you're not only ruining it for yourself but everyone else who has a CCW that is valid in WA State, WA resident or not.

 

[Canis-Lupus]

Hey Dude,
Just drop it 'K? U R not in my shoes. Outa state laws about guns I care less about.
If you walked your dog, would U ask 1st if you could bring your German Shepherd into any place, assuming it was OK and barge right in with Rover? Well buster U can't act like that without creating probs for you, the dog and the establishment/area or private property. NO U ask 1st, or U can get into problems. But asking may put more places posting 'No Pets' right? A dog can B a weapon. Don't drag me into your non-WA state mindset/state laws. Please leave this thread and go post to your own state CCW law thread.

C-L

 

[LVLouisCyphre]

Just drop it 'K? U R not in my shoes. Outa state laws about guns I care less about.
If you walked your dog, would U ask 1st if you could bring your German Shepherd into any place, assuming it was OK and barge right in with Rover? Well buster U can't act like that without creating probs for you, the dog and the establishment/area or private property. NO U ask 1st, or U can get into problems. But asking may put more places posting 'No Pets' right? A dog can B a weapon. Don't drag me into your non-WA state mindset/state laws. Please leave this thread and go post to your own state CCW law thread.

I wasn't referring to out of State laws. I was referring to your State laws. RCW stands for Revised Code of Washington.

If the person handling the dog is using it as a service animal yes they can bring it anywhere per federal law. Airlines cannot charge extra fees or fairs for service animals accompanying a ticketed passenger. Second of all it's a hassle to take a dog everywhere. If I had a dog, the dog's job would be to watch my castle at home especially when I'm not there. Once in a blue moon the dog would get a trip to PetSmart. In actuality most businesses do post no animals except for service animals in my experience.

 

[Canis-Lupus]

Good Bye netentity, I won't be replying to a thread U seem to want to keep me trapped on, so post away to your hearts delight after this. :thank_you2:
Oh and BTW I have yet to go into a Dennys in WA that does not serve alcohol, has a state liquor license # on the door to the lounge in the back, or off to the side (the part where the kids can't go to eat), sells booze & cigarettes but no inside smoking (18 and over sales by carding for smokes) most have a full service lounges in a separate section with a door between them, hard liquor, cocktails, to wine to beer and Happy Hours for anyone over 21 with the right I.D., shame I don't drink alcohol and haven't in a decade. Do you ever tell your students about packing under the influence of even Motrin or even OTC Cough Medicines (see side effects and look for ones that disqualify packing any weapon!) or just give them the 10-cent booze CCW laws? I know my state CCW laws inside and out and do not give a rat's ass about any other state's CCW anything unless I want to pack there, then I'll learn and test out to their state standards and get a non-resident CCW permit if they issue them to WA residents. Only had a WA CCW permit issued to me twice since 2001, full NIC each time when I was laid up in a V.A. hospital for surgery and my 1st 7-year one expired, so I had to get a new one, 30 days all the ABC's looking thru my life all over again good thru 2014, no study required in WA nor courses, true, but I did study and can quote every place or circumstance where using any weapon here is legal (Revised Code of Washington/RCW for weapons and much more like housing, threats, power-of-attorney, wills, estate planning, taxes, stalking, assault, battery, no-contact or restraining orders, emergency over-rides to some (risky) and criminal vs. civil laws) or a major felony about to happen. Training? Only a decade since I got out of 20 years of carrying a lot more full-auto fire-power than any citizen (not cop or security) in this nation legally carries or uses/trains with on a very regular basis, does that count? Plus I train here every few months when the mood grabs me inside a safe modern indoor pistol range. Your premise about don't ask and hope no one notices works fine, lets say I try that very dumb stunt next time I drive onto Fairchild Air Force Base while packing, 10 miles away, sure I may get lucky, and do what with a gun I am not even allowed to use or have on the base, use a gun on Federal grounds where my WA CCW weapon permit has no jurisdiction and face major felony charges if I get to be one of the unlucky 1 in 20 or 50 (depending on the threat level posted at the main gates) that the S.P.'s DO pull over and do a very thorough search on me and my vehicle too. Is that what you teach your students? Taking risks with felony charges and years in a pen?
My last post into this thread and hopefully we can close this 2-party chat for ever,
I am out of bouncing posts off your national standards with my WA city, county and state ones. Please spend your time out side of the WA State forum this is a matter of a more popular topic large forum I have no need to debate this on, or I would have posted it there under 2nd Amendment Rights or Off Topic (working dogs yeah)!!!!!!!!!!!!

Canis-Lupus

 

[rockwerks]

Curiosity, a sense of moral courage/duty to stay lawful, the right thing to do and many other reasons like many CCW citizens assume a place is CCW friendly until they find out the back part of the joint (Dennys maybe) sells alcohol, oops, can't go in there can U with any pistol! Then what? Or it's a coffee joint 95 meters from an adult educational facilty 3 stories up U never knew was up there. As a CCW Instructor U assme I should carry wherever the law says is legal knowing the fickle nature of Wal-Mart nationwide, hit some groups and read the state by state posts, check out their stories. Like I said this applies to one Wal-Mart in one small town that is getting a LOT of armed robberies in supermarket chains in Spokane, WA, maybe not in your OC/full-auto neck of the woods/state. Ignorance of the laws, rules and regs even private ones is seldome a good defense once the gun comes out of the holster. Thanks and don't bother with a retort unless U shop in the very same Wal-Mart I never will again.
And BTW it's a question I ask often if I don't know in many places I visit for the 1st time and 90% say "No problems, just keep it hidden." Where they know me well and know I pack it's not an issue. The others who say "No CCW's" I don't frequent. Try it. It may keep you out of jail! Much appreciated for your astute & generalized feedback.
WA state feedback is useful, the other 49 have many other places on USA Carry to surf/post. :victory:

C-L

I am a CPL Washington owner living on the Peninsula. Most of what you spout is pure crap. total SPOBI

I just called my sheriffs office and asked out distance from a school. They said (as does the state statute)

You can carry up to but not on the schools property, except if you are picking up your child (RCW 9.41.280)

You can carry in any Denny's, TGI Fridays or like as long as it is not a stand alone bar and you are not drinking, except for that area set aside as a bar.

Walmart is asking you to turn in those managers who restrict your CPL i their stores:

Wal-Mart's Policy About Concealed Weapons on Their Premises

For those of you who have encountered "NO CONCEAL CARRY" signs on your local Wal-Mart front doors. The reason why the signs are up is because they are in the computer. When a store manager orders new signs, if that manager is anti-gun, he can order those signs and put them up. The Wal-Mart corporate policy goes against these managers. You can call up Wal-Mart and tell them that said manager is going against the corporate policy and the signs will be taken down. I know because this has happened a couple of times here in South Carolina and it has been pursued and the signs have been removed.

wal mart corp hq 800-925-6278 - legal dept 479-273-4505 legal department

Walmart stores
702 south wewt 8th St
Bentonville Arkansas
72716-0215

Below is the letter I received from corporate HQ to confirm what I am referring to:

DATE: Friday, April 16,1999 2:13 PM

Subject: RE: Firearms

Thank you for contacting Wal-Mart regarding our concealed handgun policy. Wal-Mart was founded by Sam Walton on three basic principles. Strive for Excellence, Service to our Customers, and Respect for the Individual. It is that respect for the individual that led us to create the current policy pertaining to concealed handguns.

The following is our policy......If a Wal-Mart customer has been awarded a concealed handgun license by the state government, Wal-Mart will follow the direction of the state. However, if at anytime while on Wal-Mart property, that customer's concealed weapon becomes visible to Wal-Mart associates or customers, Wal-Mart reserves the right to ask the customer to either reposition the weapon so that it will not be visible, to remove the weapon completely or to leave Wal-Mart property, With the exception of law enforcement personnel, Wal-Mart does not allow any exposed weapons to be worn or carried in public view on Wal-Mart property or in Wal-Mart stores. Customers other than law enforcement personnel wearing or carrying a weapon in an exposed manner will be asked to leave the property immediately.

We appreciate your concern and trust that this message has addressed your concerns regarding this issue.

Thank you,

Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.

Why dont you read and know your rights

 

[astute]

Walked up to the guy outside & asked if he worked there, kind of
easy to peg with his red/white clip-on Wal-Mart ID. Politely asked him:
"Can I enter to buy a Casio G-Shock watch?" after I told him
I was carrying a concealed pistol and was I allowed inside with a
small totally concealed pistol & a current/legal
WA state CCW permit, which I showed him

Why would you do something like this. I'm a certified firearms instructor and one of the things we litterally try to embed in students heads is "CONCEALED MEANS CONCEALED" PERIOD!!! That means no announcements, showing or even hinting you might be carrying. Just go about your business and let it go. The only people who know I carry are fellow concealed carriers and some family and most of the time they don't even know I'm carrying. ****WHAT PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WON'T EVER HURT OR ALARM THEM*****
Keep it covered and keep it discret and you will find there are few if any places you can't carry.

 

[Canis-Lupus]

WHAT PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WON'T EVER HURT OR ALARM THEM
That has got to be one of the most ridiculous statements I have
ever seen posted to USA Carry.
And U just keep living that astute maxim as far away from me as possible.
Listen to my police scanner and find out how much dispatch can
pull up on anyone in 2-3 secs, the 'People' who can arrest U for
that mindset love hearing those words when they book-U.
I do agree that the replies posted into this mess as rockwerks
so eloquently puts it is pure crap. total SPOBI.
Anyone else got some junk-vice they want 2 pile on
top of this growing feces pile thread of ex-pertise?
Laterzzzzz...

C-L



C-L

 

[LVLouisCyphre]

Oh and BTW I have yet to go into a Dennys in WA that does not serve alcohol, has a state liquor license # on the door to the lounge in the back, or off to the side (the part where the kids can't go to eat), sells booze & cigarettes but no inside smoking (18 and over sales by carding for smokes) most have a full service lounges in a separate section with a door between them, hard liquor, cocktails, to wine to beer and Happy Hours for anyone over 21 with the right I.D., shame I don't drink alcohol and haven't in a decade.

None of the Denny's in Vegas or Arizona have liquor licenses. I would think if any Denny's would have a liquor license it would be the ones in Nevada, particularly Vegas since liquor is easier to get here than water. WA liquor laws are not too different from UT's as you have State run liquor stores. My information with regards to Denny's comes from a manager who informed me that none of the Denny's maintain liquor licenses. This is not to say they don't a business that they share the property with or an adjacent lounge that does serve alcohol. Denny's does make quite a bit of business from people who decide to have an early morning breakfast from people who are sobering up from a night of drinking.

Do you ever tell your students about packing under the influence of even Motrin or even OTC Cough Medicines (see side effects and look for ones that disqualify packing any weapon!) or just give them the 10-cent booze CCW laws?

I use the same abstract yardstick that works nationwide. If it's something you can get arrested for DUI for it will affect the merits of a justifiable homicide case or simple lawful CCW. That's common sense. Keep in mind that most States only codify the BAC for possession of a firearm under the influence.

Training? Only a decade since I got out of 20 years of carrying a lot more full-auto fire-power than any citizen (not cop or security) in this nation legally carries or uses/trains with on a very regular basis, does that count? Plus I train here every few months when the mood grabs me inside a safe modern indoor pistol range.

Being able to handle that fire power does not mean you know when and where it is legal to carry a concealable firearm.

Your premise about don't ask and hope no one notices works fine, lets say I try that very dumb stunt next time I drive onto Fairchild Air Force Base while packing, 10 miles away, sure I may get lucky, and do what with a gun I am not even allowed to use or have on the base, use a gun on Federal grounds where my WA CCW weapon permit has no jurisdiction and face major felony charges if I get to be one of the unlucky 1 in 20 or 50 (depending on the threat level posted at the main gates) that the S.P.'s DO pull over and do a very thorough search on me and my vehicle too. Is that what you teach your students?

I tell my students know the law, don't ask, don't tell. It's in my signature. I also inform my students of the caveats of carrying on Indian Reservations. They can confiscate your firearm and quite possibly your motor vehicle. It will literally take an act of Congress to get them back as you can not sue an Indian Reservation without Congressional approval. Obviously you can't carry on a military installation without approval of the Base Commander or Provost Marshall. I tell them if you do not have the approval of one of those two do not carry into a military installation. If you frequent military bases, know the policy of that individual base which from what I have heard varies greatly.

My last post into this thread and hopefully we can close this 2-party chat for ever,
I am out of bouncing posts off your national standards with my WA city, county and state ones. Please spend your time out side of the WA State forum this is a matter of a more popular topic large forum I have no need to debate this on, or I would have posted it there under 2nd Amendment Rights or Off Topic (working dogs yeah)!!!!!!!!!!!!

All of my posts with respect to this topic have been with respect to the laws that apply in WA State.

 

[rockwerks]

None of the Denny's in Vegas or Arizona have liquor licenses. I would think if any Denny's would have a liquor license it would be the ones in Nevada, particularly Vegas since liquor is easier to get here than water. WA liquor laws are not too different from UT's as you have State run liquor stores. My information with regards to Denny's comes from a manager who informed me that none of the Denny's maintain liquor licenses. This is not to say they don't a business that they share the property with or an adjacent lounge that does serve alcohol. Denny's does make quite a bit of business from people who decide to have an early morning breakfast from people who are sobering up from a night of drinking.

Tell your Denny's mamager he has his head up his ass, I have personally had a beer at 2 of the Denny's in AZ and in Henderson NV. The Denny's in East Flagstaff serves beer and wine, the one in Williams even has a complete bar. It is a personal choice for that Denny's owner.

 

[LVLouisCyphre]

Tell your Denny's mamager he has his head up his ass, I have personally had a beer at 2 of the Denny's in AZ and in Henderson NV. The Denny's in East Flagstaff serves beer and wine, the one in Williams even has a complete bar. It is a personal choice for that Denny's owner.

Hmm would you mind explaining to me why the two Denny's I called that have active Henderson business licenses stated they do not have liquor licenses? Denny's at one time did have liquor licenses at one time at the descretion of the individual franchise manager or owner but it's standard practice they don't especially the corporate locations. The former Denny's location at Pecos & Russell Roads between my home and the airport never had one either.

Sure it wasn't the Blueberry Hill on Green Valley Pkwy and Sunset Rd across from a Marriott and by the Green Valley Public Library? They do have a 24 hr lounge, serve alcohol and have a gaming license. People do tend to get the Denny's, IHOP, etc.and those types of restaurants confused.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I don't know. For me, I just carry my gun where it's legal to do so. Why should I have to ask any store owner/manager whoever if they "mind" if I carry in their store or restaurant. If I am legal to carry, I just carry. If they want to say something to me about it, let them. If they have heartburn about people lawfully carrying in their establishment, let them post the signs. I am not about to ask every dang manager or shop owner before I go in to their store if they mind if I carry.

What about shift change? What if the day shift manager has a heartache over people carrying guns, but the night shift manager does not? Do you ask each shift's managers?

 

[Split26]

Huh

Seems to be alot of pissing matches going on......Well I go to Air Way Heights or (Ghetto Heights) Wal-Mart all the time and I carry! Oh by the way they still sell ammo $14.95 for a box of CCI blazer Brass 45 ACP for you people that are interested.Just no weapons. Have to go to Wal-Mart on Wellsley for that.

 

[m1gunr]

Here is a couple of files on Walmart that should clear up and misunderstandings. There are also contact numbers. I am about to open a can of worms with my next comment " I OpenCarry" 99% of the time here in Washington. When I OC I expect to be questioned but when I do CC.. It's my business and no one else. Read up on the RCW's know them. You will always be legal.

RCW 9.41.270
RCW 9.41.290
RCW 9.41.300

Link Removed

Link Removed

 

[Stiofan]

I've been to all the Wallys in Spokane, the Valley and across the border in Idaho. I always CC. I've never been denied access to any of them, but I also don't advertise my CWP.

If you give someone information you give them more power to act. I prefer my carry status to remain unknown, but that's just my personal feeling. But going up to a store employee and announcing you are CCing? What's the point of Concealed Carry then? Why not just OC?

 

[JBinMontana]

Concealed means concealed, it doesn't mean kiss and tell. Even if your Wal-Mart has a sign, the most they can do is ask you to leave if they find out your carrying concealed. We have the same issue over here in my area at the local hospital, where they have posted signs. It is not a state violation, and if they spot it they can ask you to leave. No more, no less.

Don't create problems for your other conceal carry holders in your state.

 

[kengrubb]

The only alcohol and carry restrictions under RCW is that one cannot carry into any place the liquor control board has said is off-limits to those under 21.

Wife and I take the kids to places that serve liquor, I carry legally, and we simple don't go into the bar/lounge area. They have to post signs in those areas. No One Under 21.

RCW 9.41.300: Weapons prohibited in certain places ? Local laws and ordinances ? Exceptions ? Penalty.

(1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
...
(d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age;

 

[kengrubb]

WHAT PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WON'T EVER HURT OR ALARM THEM
That has got to be one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever seen posted to USA Carry.

Then you should know that carrying into a place with signs saying "No Guns Allowed", unless there's a restriction under state or federal law, isn't a crime to carry in there without telling anyone.