Very Interesting Article On Dateline, Self Defence Implications?

[Treo]

Originally posted on THR 05/26/2008

I was watching Dateline last night, in honor of the holiday they did a story W/ a military theme. What I found interesting, and some thing that I think those of us who carry a weapon for personal protection need to keep in the back of our mind, was a statement made during the interview by Ltc. Peter Kilner (Professor of Military Ethics USMA). Kilner said;"That the single greatest factor into whether a Vietnam war veteran experienced symptoms of post traumatic stress disorder was whether they had killed someone".

Kilner went on to point out that this was actually a sign of good moral health because it indicated the Service Member's conscience
were troubled by the unpleasant necessity of taking lives in combat.

Something else that Kilner pointed out was that when a police officer is involved in a shooting as soon as is feasible he has another officer W/ him validating the necessity for the shooting & telling the officer that he did the right thing & that he's not an evil person for taking a life in the course of his duties. The point is that the officer unlike the soldier (or the civilian) who takes a life is offered imediate physcological support.

Kilner then stated that Chaplins of all faiths were beginning to recognize the theraputic fatcor in such actions & are offering soldiers of all denominations rituals of absolution appropriate to their belief.

This brings up a point I never see mentioned here, we talk a lot about protecting our selve legally after a shooting, has any body given any prior consideration to spiritual / physcoligical help after a shooting

Do you think that Professor Kilner's theory is valid & what implications do you think it has in a SD shooting situation? Do you think that calling your clergy as well as your lawyer is a valid response?

Have at it

 

[eagleeyes]

''has any body given any prior consideration to spiritual / physcoligical help after a shooting ''

yes i have no doubt about it. another reason i wouldn't want to join the military and shoot innocent lives in a foreign nation for media lies or ordered to do so ...i for one wouldn't consent anyone to put me in a country where i'm not welcome and have to shoot just to stay alive. that is insanity in my opinion ......a depraved disinformed soul imo
however on my own turf and my own ground i will not hesitate to protect myself from someone trying to harm me or anyone in my company at the time even if it meant i had to fire a fatal shot ..i wouldn't like to have to do it but if a situation called my ass or your ass you better bet your ass i'm going to try and save my own ass the best way i can and my conscious and soul will not suffer for it

'thou shalt not kill , unless absolutely necessary to stay alive' is my motto when it comes to the psychological and spiritual ramifications of doing otherwise
now as for me i wouldn't have a clear conscious knowing i just sent a bomb into some hospital or mosque or building full of foreign or domestic folks who don't even know my name or have no personal vendetta against me i simply would refuse to do such an evil thing against innocent life. but that's just me as i let my conscious be my guide not the government not the military not religious cults because i have to answer to myself above and before anyone else for my actions

 

[eagleeyes]

ps i won't call any clergy but if i'm involved in a shooting i certainly will call a good lawyer

 

[USN2Pulpit]

I can comment from the clergy side of things...I have offered such support, and it seems to be something that is well recieved.

 

[JimPage]

Eagleeyes: we disagree again. I spent a lot of time in combat and killed many. No feelings of remorse. Of course, I don't swallow the media's and left wing's contention that I was killing innocent civilians any more than I think Superman is real. I was there, I know what was dying. Perhaps as Kilner implied I reflect an unhealthy moral character. I don't buy that one either. I have a clear conscience and do what I need to do.

So I would not seek counselling, but I would have counsel

 

[eagleeyes]

war is not good for the soul or any living thing imo
innocent men women and children don't deserve to get blown away just because your government labeled them as terrorists in iraq today doctors are telling women to have an abortion rather than carry their pregnancies to term as the depleted uranium is causing gross deformities and imo there is no freedom so long as certain groups are being demonized and systematically killed ...not to mention the many thousands of our own soldiers commiting suicide and or coming back with mental and physical ailments if they make it back alive in the first place.......our enemies are not over seas they are right here in dc!
i find it repulsive we justify mass genocide under the cloak of 'war' and 'protecting our freedoms' when fact is we are not being protected by slaughtering millions in other nations but rather a disservice to humanity in general esp those young kids sent to kill innocent lives for media lies false flags flying to sell the war and the idiots who buy into all that propaganda and willingly go off meaning well but fact is they been deceived! even the bible says don't be decieved and yet so many young kids are being deceived or forced to join the ranks as other jobs are not available ugh don't get me started on this topic rotflmao i could rant on forever but it won't do me or you any good for we all have our opinions and i will never condone war the mass killing of lives for false flags flyin
our soldiers are protecting crown interests like gold opium and oil whilst americans are being stripped of their rights on their own turf if anything the military should oust all the corporate crown asskissers up in dc and throw them all out of our country and use our military to rebuild america at home rather than destroy others nations so the crown can take over
sorry but that's my pov and i'm sticking to it
i have family in the military and many retired from it as well and they know it's a racket unlike so many others who just allow themselves to be manipulated and controlled by this criminal syndicate
war is not natural in my opinion and very harmful to sanctity of our very soul call me a pacifist if you will i don't care who you are i will not condone these violent senseless diabolical war games there is no reason for them but the greed and want of the worlds control freaks to keep their power and control over nations governments and its citizens
saved by the phone bbl

 

[Treo]

war is not good for the soul or any living thing imo

Why don't you ask the residents of the Warsaw ghetto how they feel about that?

 

[eagleeyes]

hi treo my grandfather died in germany during the holocaust
hitler flew his false flags too and german soldiers were rounding up and killing their own citizens as well neighboring nations citizens.....the pope was a nazi student swartznigger come from nazi elite roots as well grandaddy bush helped fund it and made tons of money too ......ibm and many now american based corporations migrated from germany here as well the pope ratlined many scientists and higher up military from there to here
the story we were told in highschool history class is but most a big deception as well remember those who win the war also rewrite our history
i feel deeply for those systematically murdered in those concentration camps and the same thing happened there could just as easily happen here if folks don't wake up realized they being lied to and do their homework

 

[carracer]

Periods, spaces and paragraphs would make this a lot easier to read. But, then again, I'm not so sure it would be any better.

 

[eagleeyes]

true that
lolz

 

[BC1]

The instructor course syllabus for NRA Personal Protection courses covers the psycholgical aspects of the aftermath. It includes the possible affects on the shooter and recommendations such as seeking affirmation from family, clergy or counseling.

 

[SGB]

I believe PTSD results due to being unprepared to deal with violence. I have only used lethal force when I've been forced to do so by the actions of another, and I've never had so much as a bad dream as a result.

 

[Treo]

I believe PTSD results due to being unprepared to deal with violence. I have only used lethal force when I've been forced to do so by the actions of another, and I've never had so much as a bad dream as a result.

I have a theory concerning PTSD, I believe that a large number of cases are caused by the person having it being conditioned to believe that it's inevitable.

It may sound weird but I believe that you can talk yourself into having it

I have occasional bad dreams and i think I've mentioned that I shoved my wife out of bed one night because I heard machine gun fire in a dream. but I don't believe I have any PTSD

 

[eagleeyes]

we are not born violent killers! we are born empathic beings
we are conditioned and trained to obey orders without question......and that goes against our true nature.
those who are more empathic and compassionate for the sanctity of life are the ones most afflicted with ptsd my heart goes out to those who have a distaste for war and all the diabolical deeds associated with it......i simply could not or will not kill innocent lives or take or follow orders to do so. i would rather die than kill innocent men women and children
what part of thou shalt not kill don't folks understand?
the only way i see a killing justified is in self defense on ones own turf as in stand your own ground......all that other nonsense and war games are just pawns on the ruling corporates chess board to keep them in their untouchable status and i will not be a pawn for their bloody sacrificial rituals they use armies to protect their power and corrupt criminal syndicates and will stop at nothing to stay rulers of the world and as time goes by each war they orchestrate only gives them more power and control over more peoples and real estate and resources on this globe

 

[Rayb]

Periods, spaces and paragraphs would make this a lot easier to read. But, then again, I'm not so sure it would be any better.

Agree on the first, and no it would not be any better no matter how you wrap it.

 

[eagleeyes]

sorry i missed a few periods oh gads i hope i not pregnant
heheh peace

 

[fudo]

we are not born violent killers! we are born empathic beings
we are conditioned and trained to obey orders without question......and that goes against our true nature.
those who are more empathic and compassionate for the sanctity of life are the ones most afflicted with ptsd my heart goes out to those who have a distaste for war and all the diabolical deeds associated with it......i simply could not or will not kill innocent lives or take or follow orders to do so. i would rather die than kill innocent men women and children
what part of thou shalt not kill don't folks understand?
the only way i see a killing justified is in self defense on ones own turf as in stand your own ground......all that other nonsense and war games are just pawns on the ruling corporates chess board to keep them in their untouchable status and i will not be a pawn for their bloody sacrificial rituals they use armies to protect their power and corrupt criminal syndicates and will stop at nothing to stay rulers of the world and as time goes by each war they orchestrate only gives them more power and control over more peoples and real estate and resources on this globe

I'm going to have to disagree. Humans are very efficient killers, with the organizational, technological skills, and intelligence to murder any number of fellow humans, as long as we can justify it. Unfortunately, finding a reason to murder in this world has not been difficult.

 

[sig p6]

I think , "each" person will deal with this on their own ,no one really knows what that bad day might be like until it happens. Before you choose to strap on that side arm there are alot of the thing's you must think about . I beleive that there are few that look at just the legal end of a self defence shoot but never think of the aftermath.
This all come's down to why " YOU" carry a fire arm in the first place ,and are you able and ready to deal with the out come after a shoot happens. This may sound bad but it all come down to you ,

 

[eagleeyes]

yes fudo we are more than capable of killing and have created many weapons of mass destruction but i think you missed my point
being; we are not born killers we were conditioned and trained to kill!
we are the only animal on this planet who kills their own kind in the most ungodly ways and arrogant enough to think we are the most intelligent creature on top of that even

ps there is no ligit reason to murder millions of innocent citizens just because some talking head on tv claims they are our enemies or demonized them as terrorists witches savages less than human etc
nor is it just or acceptable to fly false flags to justify war
imho

 

[Wyldekard]

It's generational. You deal with it depending on how you were brought up like everything else. It used to be men didn't cry, talk about their feelings, or try to get in touch with their feminine side. That pendulum has swung far to the other side. Now the country is in decline.

On Nightline tonite there was a story about guys getting facials, manicures, hair removal, pedicures, and more crap like that. The only way some squirrel is getting that close to my nuts with a sharp object is if I have a bullet hole in my head. They can keep it. I prefer the old ways.