Vermont Open Carrier Illegally Handcuffed, Detained by Police

[opsspec1991]

Vermont Open Carrier Illegally Handcuffed, Detained by Police

Openly carrying a firearm in Vermont is completely legal. In addition, the Supreme Court of the United States has found that the mere presence of a firearm is not enough of a reason to detain someone. That means, unless a police officer suspects someone is committing a crime, he cannot detain someone simply because they have a firearm.

However, that’s exactly what happened to Joshua Severance, a former service member of the National Guard.

Severance was walking down a Vermont street on the way to his father’s house, openly carrying his 9mm handgun in a holster on his belt.

Police in the area approached Severance, told him to put his hands on the police cruiser, seized his weapon, handcuffed him, and placed him the back of cruiser for at least 15 minutes. This is clearly a detention under the law.

Video:

 

[logunowner]

I just don't know how this kind of thing can continue to happen. The police admit he is during nothing wrong, yet they detain him. It has to stop.

 

[buckey01]

It happens when men believe that they are above the law and the Constitution. It is called a police state and is the enforcement arm of a tyrannical government. If we do not yet live in a tyranny, we are getting dangerously close. While most LEOs are good men doing a difficult job, there are always a few who are susceptible to the corrupting influence of power.

 

[w8asa]

Clear abuse of power. Unlawful detainment. Maybe kidnapping?

 

[gejoslin]

Did anyone expect to hear the Sargent say that the cops were in the wrong?

 

[CharlesMorrison]

Rutland is a hot bed of drug crime. It seems that the gang bangers from NY cross over to us in Vermont to conduct business.
They can pack heat and not face gun charges because Vermont is a no permit state.
However, what the police are doing is a blatant violation of our GOD GIVEN rights and this is not the first time, nor will it be the last time that the Rutland cops have overstepped their authority.
Rutland has tried to create and enforce their OWN laws that have been continuously struck down by the courts.
Rutland is non friendly to gun owners and they have no problem in proving it.

 

[dogshawred]

Rutland is a hot bed of drug crime. It seems that the gang bangers from NY cross over to us in Vermont to conduct business.
They can pack heat and not face gun charges because Vermont is a no permit state.

This is happening everywhere in the country. Vermont with their pure constitutional adherence to 2A on the other hand give the BG an edge. BUT, what BG is his right mind is going to draw attention to himself by carrying his piece open and deliberately walk past a patrol car? When he could have just put his shirt back on and they would not been able to see the weapon.
~
Common sense regarding this kind of situation just isn't being used effectively, once they was in possession of the gun what threat was he to them, of course he wasn't but yet they will by matter of course intimidate those they are wishing to convince they shouldn't be exercising their legal rights under the law. They are hired to enforce the laws not interpret them to their way of thinking.
~
Sorry to hear there was a shooting just prior this incident and hope that no one was killed, but like the law abiding citizen said at the very end "what does that have to do with me"

 

[SR40c]

The cops are wrong. The Sargent is wrong. They (the cops) say treating people like this is "normal" and is most definitely wrong. Getting real tired of the "Storm Trooper" mentality of the Police.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Vermont with their pure constitutional adherence to 2A on the other hand give the BG an edge.

Seriously?!? Would you care to share with us exactly how Vermont's lack of gun control laws gives the BG an edge?!?

 

[MI .45]

It happens when men believe that they are above the law and the Constitution. It is called a police state and is the enforcement arm of a tyrannical government. If we do not yet live in a tyranny, we are getting dangerously close. While most LEOs are good men doing a difficult job, there are always a few who are susceptible to the corrupting influence of power.

These days, it's a lot more than a few...

 

[dogshawred]

Seriously?!? Would you care to share with us exactly how Vermont's lack of gun control laws gives the BG an edge?!?

Ones ability to blend into their environment, provides them an edge that they would not have elsewhere.
~
You may not like the implication but it is logic, a BG guy with a gun in a crowd with law abiding citizens with guns is not going to be as readily noticeable. After all, what does a BG look like when he isn't actually doing something BAD. Looks just like everyone else in the crowd, you, me or the next guy. Plus the more people who exercise their rights give the BG more people to blend into.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Ones ability to blend into their environment, provides them an edge that they would not have elsewhere.
~
You may not like the implication but it is logic, a BG guy with a gun in a crowd with law abiding citizens with guns is not going to be as readily noticeable. After all, what does a BG look like when he isn't actually doing something BAD. Looks just like everyone else in the crowd, you, me or the next guy. Plus the more people who exercise their rights give the BG more people to blend into.

Let me try to explain this in simple terms. A bad guy doing something bad in a crowd of people carrying guns in Vermont is likely to be only one of a few who end up lying on the ground in a pool of blood while the group of armed intended victims stays standing.

A bad guy doing something bad in a crowd of people in a state with strict gun control laws is likely to be only one of a few who end up standing while the unarmed victims are lying on the ground. In that state they blend in just as much when not doing something bad because they keep their guns hidden; but they still possess them, regardless of the laws the government passes making it illegal and the no guns signs that people put up.

The "edge" the bad guy gains by "blending in" is minute compared to the edge the law abiding citizens gain by not having to jump through hoops and pay fees and obey silly restrictive laws in order to defend themselves.

 

[N R A]

Like it or not, police officers work on appearances, called profiling. The guy in the video would set off a couple warning flags for his looks.

Police officer encountered this guy walking shirtless with a ball cap in a position favored by inmates, wearing a gun, in a residential neighborhood, walking around.

He was within his rights. Fine. He could have also gone concealed, another right he enjoys in Vermont. Had he chosen to not alarm his community with his choice of constitutional rights, he would not have been detained while police did their job making sure the public is safe.



I would expect anyone acting like they wanted attention, as in this situation, to get what they wanted.

 

[BluesStringer]

Like it or not, police officers work on appearances, called profiling. The guy in the video would set off a couple warning flags for his looks.

Police officer encountered this guy walking shirtless with a ball cap in a position favored by inmates, wearing a gun, in a residential neighborhood, walking around.

Excuse me, but what is odd or alarming about the way this guy is wearing his cap?

The cap is in the position favored by baseball players, security personnel, heck, it's even basically the same position favored by jack booted thugs invading a Boston suburb while violating everyone's rights because of one bomber who wasn't even in the perimeter they invaded!

What is odd or alarming about a guy wearing shorts with no shirt when it's hot outside?

What is odd or alarming about a guy wearing a weapon on his belt in a state that has zero laws prohibiting open or concealed carry?

He was within his rights. Fine. He could have also gone concealed, another right he enjoys in Vermont.

And you could've posted something intelligent and supportive of others' constitutional rights, but you chose instead to post this nonsense.

Had he chosen to not alarm his community with his choice of constitutional rights, he would not have been detained while police did their job making sure the public is safe.

Had the cops chosen to respect, defend and uphold his rights as they are sworn to do, you wouldn't have had to watch the video of a free man standing up for his freedom.

I would expect anyone acting like they wanted attention, as in this situation, to get what they wanted.

Your idiotic post is getting a bit of attention too, which you could've avoided by not exercising your right of free speech, even stupid speech.

See how that works? When you criticize the exercise of freedom, you leave yourself open to criticism of your own exercise of same.

You'll find that a majority of posters here support freedom. Your boot-licking of cops who are caught suppressing it will get you negative attention every time, which, if you do it after being informed, must mean you enjoy negative attention.

Blues

 

[dogshawred]

Just trying to stay on topic.

Vermont Open Carrier Illegally Handcuffed, Detained by Police

Openly carrying a firearm in Vermont is completely legal. In addition, the Supreme Court of the United States has found that the mere presence of a firearm is not enough of a reason to detain someone. That means, unless a police officer suspects someone is committing a crime, he cannot detain someone simply because they have a firearm.

However, that’s exactly what happened to Joshua Severance, a former service member of the National Guard.

Severance was walking down a Vermont street on the way to his father’s house, openly carrying his 9mm handgun in a holster on his belt.

Police in the area approached Severance, told him to put his hands on the police cruiser, seized his weapon, handcuffed him, and placed him the back of cruiser for at least 15 minutes. This is clearly a detention under the law.

Video:

Let me try to explain this in simple terms. A bad guy doing something bad in a crowd of people carrying guns in Vermont is likely to be only one of a few who end up lying on the ground in a pool of blood while the group of armed intended victims stays standing.

A bad guy doing something bad in a crowd of people in a state with strict gun control laws is likely to be only one of a few who end up standing while the unarmed victims are lying on the ground. In that state they blend in just as much when not doing something bad because they keep their guns hidden; but they still possess them, regardless of the laws the government passes making it illegal and the no guns signs that people put up.

The "edge" the bad guy gains by "blending in" is minute compared to the edge the law abiding citizens gain by not having to jump through hoops and pay fees and obey silly restrictive laws in order to defend themselves.

Had the OP been about a BG in a crowd I would have to concede to you post. But trying to stay on the subject at hand Severance was not doing anything illegal at the time he was stopped and detained by police.
~
It was under that set of circumstances that I proposed my idea of a BG having an edge in a crowd of armed citizens. I guess I have to spell out the fact that as Severance, he (the BG) wouldn't be doing anything illegal to draw attention to himself. Didn't think I really needed to be that obvious, but here you go.

Ones ability to blend into their environment, provides them an edge that they would not have elsewhere.
~
You may not like the implication but it is logic, a BG guy with a gun in a crowd with law abiding citizens with guns is not going to be as readily noticeable. After all, what does a BG look like when he isn't actually doing something BAD. Looks just like everyone else in the crowd, you, me or the next guy. Plus the more people who exercise their rights give the BG more people to blend into.

Implications are that until a BG acts out in a crowd, he is just part of the crowd. In other words, as stated before he will be able to blend in by looking like and acting like the rest of the crowd (BG have moments when they are NOT being bad, when they are think about what BAD thing they want to do next). If BGs acted out all the time they would be real easy to spot and much easier for LE to apprehend, but that would make to easy, HUH.
~
I had no intention of setting anyone off with my posts as they in no way reference Vermont's gun laws as being good or bad, simply that a BG would be able to use there permissiveness to their advantage and that would give them the edge of being able to blend into society easier if they so desired. I you can not see and accept that, sorry for any ire I may have raised.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Had the OP been about a BG in a crowd I would have to concede to you post. But trying to stay on the subject at hand Severance was not doing anything illegal at the time he was stopped and detained by police.
~
It was under that set of circumstances that I proposed my idea of a BG having an edge in a crowd of armed citizens. I guess I have to spell out the fact that as Severance, he (the BG) wouldn't be doing anything illegal to draw attention to himself. Didn't think I really needed to be that obvious, but here you go.



Implications are that until a BG acts out in a crowd, he is just part of the crowd. In other words, as stated before he will be able to blend in by looking like and acting like the rest of the crowd (BG have moments when they are NOT being bad, when they are think about what BAD thing they want to do next). If BGs acted out all the time they would be real easy to spot and much easier for LE to apprehend, but that would make to easy, HUH.
~
I had no intention of setting anyone off with my posts as they in no way reference Vermont's gun laws as being good or bad, simply that a BG would be able to use there permissiveness to their advantage and that would give them the edge of being able to blend into society easier if they so desired. I you can not see and accept that, sorry for any ire I may have raised.

It just doesn't make any sense to me. Why is it easier for a bad guy to blend in in Vermont than in New York or California? All they have to do is hide their gun. That's it. Period. Nothing else. Law abiding citizens hide their guns every day, even in Vermont.

 

[LDaniel]

I have a problem with the police, but also the guy they detained. He said it would okay if they stopped him and check and see if the gun was stolen. If I was open carrying, I would have a problem with that. If I am not doing anything illegal, leave me alone. What evidence do they have to believe the gun I am carrying might be stolen?