Using deadly force to protect your pet


Treo
Random Internet Tough Guy

I would say that description fits you well. While you are trying to kick one pit bull or mastiff or whatever the other one is going to be pulling the leg you are standing on from under you and having fun with your third leg. :biggrin:

Man, don't you know you're talking to the Caucasian Jackie Chan? If it's two dogs (which should be your handle BTW) I'll just unleash (pun intended) my Kung Fu skillz on them
 

That whole bit about being judged by 12 sounds applicable here. The dog all ready has tasted blood, maybe next time it will be a toddler, infant, preggo mom, who knows? I have called the cops on dogs out of their yards (AFTER they attacked my kids) By the time LEO arrived, the offending animal had gotten back inside its fence. I told the Neighbor and the Cop next time that dog got out of the yard it was being put down. Amazing enough, I have yet to see them even outside without my neighbors being home, unless they were chained up.
 
I had this very same thing happen here in High Point a couple months ago. a Pitt rot mix broke his chain and jumped my Basset hound while my roommate was out walking him also bit the roommate. I was not home but when the cops got there they told the pitt/rot owner he would have to pay for my dogs vet visit and that if the dog got off his chain again and i shot it he could not do a thing. now when i walk my dogs i have a 45lc on my belt.
 
I live in a rural part of Tennessee, where all of the dogs roam around the neighborhood without a leash. Dogs that belong receive petting and usually some doggy treats. Dogs that don't belong and act aggressively are the main reason almost everybody has an H&R singleshot .410 or 20 gauge hanging up in the garage. I've never even come close to needing my .410 Pardner. Most of our dogs are retrievers and hounds. The only threat is getting licked to death!
 
The just had an incidednt here in the Springs where a 140 pound Bull Mastiff dragged it's owner across the street to latch on to a 70 pound Greyhound. The Greyhound's owwn did every thing he could to get the Bull Mastiff off his dog then told the Bull's owner "If you don't get your dog off mine I'm going to kill it"

When the Bull's owner didn't repond he drew his pistol (CHP Holder) and shot the dog.

No charges were filed
 
No matter what really happened, if a dog attacks your dog it also "bared its teeth, growled loudly and angrily and my presumption was that I was about to be attacked. I was truly frightened for my own safety and the dog presented what I considered to be an imminent threat to my life". That is why you shot it--period/end of story.
 
KELCARRY: I could be wrong but I think you are saying you would dispatch the animal. Can't say I blame you and would do the same. Especially if there were children in the vicinity. I read the other day where a woman was killed by her own two Rotweillers who were running loose. Animals like Rots and Pit Bulls should never run loose. Those blood lines could run out for my part. I can not see a need for that kind of animal.:no:

I have a Rottie. You stand a better chance of being licked to death than being bit by him. As with all breeds of dogs, it depends on who trains them and how. I had a Beagle that was more vicious than my Rottie, Shep/Dane, and Dobbie combined.
 
Does your dog bite? No, my dog doesn't bite anyone. Grrrrrrrr, chomp................... I thought you said your dog doesn't bite? I did, that's not my dog:sarcastic:
 
Way back about the crack of the dawn of time when I lived in Fla. I was out in the front yard working on a car when two JWs came walking up the street.

I had 4 dogs ( two Pits and two mutts) running around the yard.

The JWs stooped at the drive way and asked

"Excuse me, do your dogs bite?"

"Yup" ( they didn't)

Could you put them up please? We'd like to give you a magazine."

"Nope"

Short visit :biggrin:
 
At least, if you don't agree with me, please don't be mean and say nasty things. My dad taught me "if you have nothing nice to say, keep your mouth shut".

My dog is very much part of my FAMILY. He is a 2 year old beagle/boxer mix. He is very loyal and my best friend.

That being said, if I was out on a walk with my dog, and another dog, pit, doberman pincher, shepherd, whatever starts to attack me or my dog, I WILL shoot to protect us.

By the way, this thread almost could give pit's a bad name. I know many pit's that are excellent dogs. They used to be called the nanny dogs because in the old days, families would get them to protect their babies. <not harping, just want to let others realize, pit's to chihuahua to beagles, if it has teeth, it can bite>. :)

I should check our laws to see if I would be screwed if I do, if so, I will still shoot the attacking dog and hope for a jury full of animal lovers.
Daven, I am sorry that person could not discuss that topic with respect . I have a Doberman and get dirty looks all the time ! He is like me we love all people and animals until you try to do us HARM ! God Bless .
 
This question has prompted some interesting discussion. However I would like to point out one distinction. The agressive agent in this scenario is a domestic animal and not a human being.

Most of the deadly force statutes address deadly force against other people and not animals. Therefore they do not apply. As has been previously pointed out with the exception of a few states domestic animals are considered property.

In most cases a dog acting agressively toward another dog or even a dog simply acting lethargic (might be rabid) could be dispatched. Now in some jurisdictions you may face charges for discharging a firearm in a public place but not assault and certainly not homicide. Additionally you would still be liable for any stray rounds or collateral damage to property.

This scenario changes significantly if you come upon an attacker "kicking the snot" out of your dog. Obviously as has been pointed out we form strong emotional attachments to our dogs. However, If you were to employ deadly force against your dog's attacker without a clear threat to yourself or another human being you would be in the wrong and liable to be charged with manslaughter at the least or second degree murder at worst.

It does not matter how you felt at the time the only thing that matters is if 12 people would agree that a reasonable person might have felt in "fear of death or greivous bodily harm". There are some of us who may feel that our dog's life may be worth prison time. I am not among them.
 
Hey Doc: If you want a jury to believe you, you had better have a mindset that very clearly, from minute one, made you believe and presume that you yourself were in imminent danger as your pet was being attacked. The attacking animal had clearly shown an aggressive attitude not only to your pet but to you, as well, and it was a clear presumption on your part that once the animal was "done" with your dog either by killing it or having you separate them, it was going to attack you. Just like with the two legged "dogs" running around, the key is "presumption of imminent death or great bodily injury" that will allow you to discharge your firearm in defense. Here in SC, case law has bent over backwards to protect the CCer when presumption is there.
 
Maybe it's me but, I don't understand the need for a gun in this situation. I have never met a dog yet that I couldn't kick silly.

Some pit bulls can get pretty d@mn big. I've seen pictures of pits that easily had to top 150 lbs. Some of the Michael Vick pits were supposed to be even bigger than that.

Most large breeds (labs, even German shepherds) could probably be stopped with a good kick or two, but a large pit or rottweiller would be more than I would want to take on unarmed. One of them snarls at me, I draw my gun. He (or she) charges me, I shoot him.

There are some strays that wander around my neighborhood but none of them seem very agressive so I don't usually pay them any attention unless my son is outside the house. As he gets older (he's 10 months so if he's outside it's because we are loading him into or out of the car) this will likely change, and could result in a reduction in the dog population of Oconee county, SC (though I hope not since I really don't want to shoot a dog if I don't have to).

We did lose a cat to a stray dog (I think - couldn't really tell) but he was in a neighbor's yard so that would have been hard to justify killing the dog.
 
Per Treo's comment, In addition to some well placed kicks, I would also think that in the heat of a dog attack, especially if it turns on you, it may be difficult to accurately discharge a firearm. I would think that a serrated knife would probably serve you better.
 
Hey Doc: If you want a jury to believe you, you had better have a mindset that very clearly, from minute one, made you believe and presume that you yourself were in imminent danger as your pet was being attacked. The attacking animal had clearly shown an aggressive attitude not only to your pet but to you, as well, and it was a clear presumption on your part that once the animal was "done" with your dog either by killing it or having you separate them, it was going to attack you. Just like with the two legged "dogs" running around, the key is "presumption of imminent death or great bodily injury" that will allow you to discharge your firearm in defense. Here in SC, case law has bent over backwards to protect the CCer when presumption is there.

I had two points in my message and I think you addressed both. For Clarity:

1. "Deadly force" laws normally only apply to human attackers. There are different laws that apply to animal attacks.

2. Your own feelings can contribute to your arguement for the justification of of the use of deadly force but are not the standard. What matters is if a reasonable person in your place would have acted similarly.
 
I had two points in my message and I think you addressed both. For Clarity:

1. "Deadly force" laws normally only apply to human attackers. There are different laws that apply to animal attacks.

2. Your own feelings can contribute to your arguement for the justification of of the use of deadly force but are not the standard. What matters is if a reasonable person in your place would have acted similarly.

You are correct about the laws for attacks on and by animals and on and by people vary and vary greatly from state to state. Not only that but the kind of animal matters also therefore we can't make any blanket statement. Your comment about a reasonable person is right on the money as many cases are just that when it is turned over to the jury. What would a reasonable person have done in this case.

As some have pointed out that in some states dogs are considered property just like your automobile. If you saw a car rolling down the hill toward your car would you have the right to shoot out the tires on it to prevent it from hitting your car? I know this is a wild comparision but both are property so we can make some comparision. But no matter whether it is an animar or person the key is normally what would a reasonable person do in the same situation.
 
Here in Charleston South Carolina there was a news report this week of a pit bull that was roaming a neighborhood in West Ashley and attacking other dogs. One lady watched as the Pit Bull tore in to her weiner dog and killed it. The pit bull came out of the woods and attacked the dog with no cause. Then later on that afternoon the pit bull showed up in a park not too far away and did the same thing to another dog.

The thought running through my mind was this. If that pit bull had attacked my dog for no apparent reason other than to be vicious I would have put an end to that problem very quickly. The next thought was a question that I would like to pose to you. If I use deadly force to stop a vicious animal from tearing into my pet will I go to jail for discharging my firearm in public?

Yes, I know I need to research the local laws here. I would imagine that the City of Charleston does have ordinances against discharging a firearm in the city limits. Any pet owner that is a CWP holder and carrying concealed would certainly be tempted to protect their pet.

I had a friend of mine, who was working private security many years ago, that got mauled by a pit bull at an apartment complex. He was walking by a gate at the back of an apartment and the dog broke its chain and jumped the fence and attacked him. My friend was armed but it happened so quick he was not able, or decided not to use deadly force. I am thinking that I would have fed the dog the business end of his .357 and pulled the trigger.
Here in Ohio you cant kill a dog thats attacking your dog.
You can kill a dog who is making you think he's going to bite you, however.
Lawriter - ORC - 955.28 Dog may be killed for certain acts - owner liable for damages.
I dont think too much trouble is going to come if you put down an out of control pit bull. No big loss there.
 
Hey Doc and FN: We are playing with words here. If I have an imminent danger to myself, it is damn well certain that it is a reasonable presumption of imminent danger of great bodily harm. They, IMO, are one and the same. That goes for any animal, 2 legged or 4 legged. Some replies, however, do meet your distinction on "reasonable" with their guns ablazing attitude about anything running toward them.
 

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