Use Of Deadly Force : Justified or Not


dc1263

New member
Simple assault is not a justified use of deadly force, I understand that.

Are broken bones and blood beyond reasonable force and justification for the use of deadly force ?

What if a dude twice my size pushes me around then punches me in the mouth and breaks my jaw ?

Or say he knocks a couple of teeth out of my mouth and bloodies my nose

Would that be considered "Serious Physical Injury" or "Great Bodily Harm" as defined by The Law ?

Can anyone here point me to the laws pertaining to the "Use of Deadly Force Against A Person"

I recently took the Concealed Carry Class here in NC ( I've had my CT permit for 20+ years now) and was surprised that the only place I can find reference to these laws of self defense was in the training handbook,
Thought there would be a statute or some other reference to the Common Laws ?

You guys are great, Lots of good info here.
 

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mistertaco

New member
I could not find specifics in the General Statutes for serious bodily injury, etc either. There must be some information from public records of court cases related to use of deadly force. I'd like to know also.

The terms are subjective and to what level of injury, we don't know. It's up to the arresting officers, I suppose. And the jury if it gets that far. The criminal records of the person, eye witness accounts, etc.

It gets really messy.

The aftermath of using justified deadly force scares me more than actually using a firearm. One guy in class actually said, Shit, I'm just gonna carry mace." Not that he was serious about doing do, but did show how confusing the entire subject is.
 

2beararms

New member
If you honestly FEAR that your life is in danger your check list is complete. If you are going to try to analyze the situation in terms of if your legally justified, the outcome will most likely be that you will be seriously dead.

If the dude breaks your jaw that may not be justification for deadly force, however if he is winding up to hit you AGAIN then it may be. It is what MAY happen, not the blood that has been spilled.

This is DEFENSE not vigilantism or getting even. If he breaks your jaw and walks away and you shoot him that is murder. If he breaks your jaw and reaches for a pipe and you shoot him that is self-defense.

The reason you are in the fight in the first place may well play into the story, never in your favor. If bar fights are your thing then don't be carrying a gun, you will wind up in deep.

It is really all common sense.
 

astute

New member
The use of deadly force may or may not be good in the cases you cite. One can only act on what he feels at the time and if deadly force is applied, then keep your mouth shut and let your lawyer sort it out with the authorities. Even the most justifiable defense can be turned into a murder charge and visa-versa by prosecutors.
 

GeneralSumter

New member
Is NC a "stand your ground" state?

The reason I ask is because my instructor, here in SC where we are a stand your ground state, said that many factors are judged in the use of deadly force. The fists of a 250lb man can be considered deadly weapons and if he has the potential to knock you out AND take your gun, then he has the potential to use lethal force on you. Therefore, our instructor, a cop, told us to shoot before he does that.

I believe that is a very loose interpretation especially when the determination will be left to the jury, not the cop. I would recommend loud verbal commands to the assailant prior to drawing such as "STOP" or "BACK AWAY". This will get the attention of possible witnesses prior to an incident and will hopefully prove you to be the defender, not the instigator.

Then, if possible, present your weapon prior to firing. I believe it's only brandishing if you present your firearm in an offensive manner (at least in SC). This case would be defensive and is sometimes effective in de-escalating the situation. If you have to draw your weapon and the BG retreats, call the Police anyway so that you can tell them the situation and why you presented your firearm. Otherwise the BG may try to turn the table on you (he pulled a gun on me!)

That's a long answer for, your fate is in the hands of the jury of your peers. But certain steps can be made in your favor.
 

dc1263

New member
Just a scenario ya know, because fear is not defined, it's a personal emotion.

Don't do the bar scene anymore, or clubs, or concerts, don't care for big crowds and lots of people.

I'll go out of my way to avoid conflict whenever possible, especially while driving !

Not looking for advise per say, Just like to know what other people are thinking.

I do not want to be responsible, either legally or morally for the death of another person

Thanks for your input
 

Red Hat

New member
GeneralSumter is correct. I don't think that NC has a Castle Doctrine so it would be hard to justify deadly force on an assault. In SC as other States that have a CD on the books if you have a right to be somewhere you have the right to protect yourself and others.
 

Ektarr

Dedicated Infidel
I do not want to be responsible, either legally or morally for the death of another person
Quite laudable . . . and might get you killed if you feel more strongly about that than you do your Right to protect yourself! The decision to 'stop the threat' at whatever cost necessary might need to be made in a nanosecond. If you're going to weigh how it might make you feel afterward, and whether it's moral, even if it is legal, it could be game set and match with you as the loser.
 

dc1263

New member
RE : I do not want to be responsible, either legally or morally for the death of another person

What I mean by that is, I wish to go through life peacefully, I don't look for trouble.

However, if trouble happens to find me, guess who's going down !

Your absolutely right though, If you have to think, your dead.

That is why we run through the scenarios, isn't it ? So we can think through the threat before hand ?

Then if something should happen, we can fall back on our training and "stop the threat", rather than try to think it through, or weigh how it's going to make us feel.

Cause we've already done that, right ? Please don't misunderstand me.

I feel very strongly for my right to self defense, but No, I don't "WANT" to kill anybody.
 
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Wolfling68

New member
Legally, what it will come down to is what the Jury feels. This is the legal system, right and wrong, truth and justice have nothing to do with it. It is about winning. Is your lawyer better than the prosecutor, does the prosecutor think he can win? Damn, I've become cynical.....anyway, the Florida statues say fear for your life or grevious bodily injury, or to prevent a major felony like kidnapping.
My personal feeling is I will not shoot someone unless I am willing to go to jail for the rest of my life. This means I am saving my life, or my family. Probably someone else's child. Someone's money, a bar fight, etc, just not worth it. Now, I will probably not go to jail for self defence, but I just might. It had better be worth it.
 

NRA UR2

New member
If you feel imperiled irregardless of the circumstances, then you must shoot. When the police arrive you must repeat this over and over with no alterations, aditions orchanges...Officer, I feared for my life. He was going to kill me....
 
Anytime you use deadly force you must be prepared to go to court and be judged for your actions. As stated before, if you truly feared for your life that's the statement you must make throughout the investigation and possible trial. While your attacker doesn't have to be armed the fact that they were, or weren't, will weigh heavily in anyone's decision.
 

tattedupboy

Thank God I'm alive!
These are all good answers. However, in the end, it will all depend on how well the defense and prosecution are able to convince the jury. The law, as well intentioned as it may (or may not) be, never is, never has been, nor will ever be a one size fits all guide for every situation. All I can recommend is that you use the minimum amount of force necessary to get out of any situation alive and just use your best judgment at all times.
 

HiCarry

New member
The definition of serious bodily injury can usually be found in the language of your state's statues. Here is the relevant language from Hawaii:

§707-700 Definitions of terms in this chapter. In this chapter, unless a different meaning plainly is required:

"Bodily injury" means physical pain, illness, or any impairment of physical condition.

[snip]

"Serious bodily injury" means bodily injury which creates a substantial risk of death or which causes serious, permanent disfigurement, or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ.

[snip]

"Substantial bodily injury" means bodily injury which causes:

(1) A major avulsion, laceration, or penetration of the skin;

(2) A burn of at least second degree severity;

(3) A bone fracture;

(4) A serious concussion; or

(5) A tearing, rupture, or corrosive damage to the esophagus, viscera, or other internal organs.
 

FN1910

New member
No matter what the law says, if you shoot someone you are going to have a few sleepless nights. If the DA thinks that he has a case then it will go to a jury. They will decide if if was justified or not. The laws may help the jury but it will come down to their opinion.
 

Lonewolf2810

Glock 27 Fan
Is NC a "stand your ground" state?

The reason I ask is because my instructor, here in SC where we are a stand your ground state, said that many factors are judged in the use of deadly force. The fists of a 250lb man can be considered deadly weapons and if he has the potential to knock you out AND take your gun, then he has the potential to use lethal force on you. Therefore, our instructor, a cop, told us to shoot before he does that.

I believe that is a very loose interpretation especially when the determination will be left to the jury, not the cop. I would recommend loud verbal commands to the assailant prior to drawing such as "STOP" or "BACK AWAY". This will get the attention of possible witnesses prior to an incident and will hopefully prove you to be the defender, not the instigator.

Then, if possible, present your weapon prior to firing. I believe it's only brandishing if you present your firearm in an offensive manner (at least in SC). This case would be defensive and is sometimes effective in de-escalating the situation. If you have to draw your weapon and the BG retreats, call the Police anyway so that you can tell them the situation and why you presented your firearm. Otherwise the BG may try to turn the table on you (he pulled a gun on me!)

That's a long answer for, your fate is in the hands of the jury of your peers. But certain steps can be made in your favor.


To answer is NC a stand your ground state? NO it is not you have the duty to retreat. I sure wish they would change that law it sure would help in the matter of protecting your self and family.
 

lasersights

LaserSights
I think along the lines of Ted Nugent's comments in this video

My thoughts reflect what has been stated here. However, at the end of the day, unfortunately it really comes down to who is your lawyer? Reality seems to have no place in a trial where our gladiators in suits fight on our behalf.
 

Lonewolf2810

Glock 27 Fan
Just who couldn't like that guy? He has always said it like it is and that is the way it should be. Why does this country have to always change something that works. You give the criminals more rights than the law abiding citizen and then you get the revolving door prison system. (Oh he didn't really mean to slaughter that family he was just mad at his mother or something like that) give me a break. We need to stand up for what our fore fathers fought and died for to keep us free. It is time we take back control of our rights before its to late.
Just my 2 cents on this matter. There I feel better now and thanks for listening.
 

agentduder

New member
our concealed carry instructor in SC to us "its better to be tried by twelve than carried by six." The key to anything is using common sense.
 

dc1263

New member
Lots of great insight from everyone, still cant find any reference to any statutes pertaining to self defense outside of the CCW training handbook, except for (NCGS 14-51.1 "Use of deadly force against an intruder")
 

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