Use of Audio/Video recorders


clofwv

New member
How many of you have given any thought to using an audio or video recorder if and when pulled over or stopped by a LEO? I personally think this may be a good idea. A do not think most LEO's have any problem with just doing thier job, but once in a while?
 

highland

highland
Is it legal?

There are some jurisdictions that consider recording or taping an officer as obstructing the officer from doing his duties and they will arrest you if you don't cease & desist when ordered.
 

Anthony_I_Am

New member
It depends on the state. Your state may be a one-party consent or an all-party consent state. If your state is a one-party consent state then you can legally record without the officers knowledge.

Can you cite the "obstructing" law? Simply having a recorder on and not turning it off is not interfering at all with a cop doing his job. The only way it could be remotely stretched into "obstructing an officer" would be if you are videoing some traffic stop as a spectator and do not leave when told to do so.

I was a victim of a police incident in Houston about 1995. I was pulled over by a deputy in precinct 5 in SW Houston about 3 AM. I was a security guard doing patrol at various apartment complexes and had a pistol on me. The deputy took my weapon, unloaded it, and dissasembled it and searched my vehicle, all the time my recorder running, unbeknowsnt to him. Then he gave it back to me at the end of the traffic stop in about 15 pieces. He had something against security guards. He was talking shit the whole time.

When I went to the constables office and spoke with the constable. After telling my story he called the deputy in off the street. When he got there he told a different story. He told the constable I was using abusive language and being a smartass when In fact I was just yessir, nosir, etc. After the deputy finished his story I took out my recorder and laid it on the chiefs desk. Then I asked him if he wanted to stick with that story. His face turned beet red and he got up and walked out.
 

BigSlick

New member
Good for you Anthony. Would like to hear about what happened to him after he walked out. Seems like you had him backed into the corner with no way out. The LEO community would be better off without those “bad apples”. If the LEO is respectful and professional then more power to him or her. If not then you have documentation for abuse and need to report incident. After all don’t they have cameras installed in their cars for the very same reason? I have considered keeping a small video and audio recorder in my car for just the same reason. Haven’t purchased one yet but considering it. Many states consider your car an extension of your home.
When I was in Australia last year for a business trip I noticed that every taxi cab had video and audio recorders installed on the roof of the vehicle (both sides). When I asked the driver about them he said they were required by law and recorded persons entering and exiting the vehicle as well as any conversations taking place inside the taxi.
 

RRGlock23

New member
I have seen most OCers always using audio and video of their right to open carry firerarm in their states. LOL I loved them.
 

Anthony_I_Am

New member
These following states require the consent of all the parties being recorded for it to be legal. If your state is not listed here than you can legally record in public without the consent of the other parties.

ALL PARTIES IN THE CONVERSATION MUST CONSENT:
California
Connecticuit
Florida
Illinois
Maryland
Massachusetts
Michigan
Montanna
Nevada
New Hampshire
Pennsylvania
Washington

ONE PARTY IN THE CONVERSATION MUST CONSENT
All the others







Source: Link Removed
 

Unfettered Might

Μολών λαβ&
That was great Anthony, kudos!

Thanks for the list of states too.

I've thought about taking the whole idea to the hilt. Something along the lines of a DVR along with an inverter and multiple mini cams and audio recorders at strategic points around the car. Keep the DVR locked in a metal box mounted to the car, in the trunk, so there can be no removal of evidence by an unscrupulous LEO. It would also be beneficial in a SD scenario involving your vehicle, if you are charged.
 

Anthony_I_Am

New member
That was great Anthony, kudos!

Thanks for the list of states too.

I've thought about taking the whole idea to the hilt. Something along the lines of a DVR along with an inverter and multiple mini cams and audio recorders at strategic points around the car. Keep the DVR locked in a metal box mounted to the car, in the trunk, so there can be no removal of evidence by an unscrupulous LEO. It would also be beneficial in a SD scenario involving your vehicle, if you are charged.

My dad has something like that in his truck. He does escort service for oversize loads across the country. One recorder faces backwards and the other faces forward and there is audio recording. He communicates by CB radio with the oversize load truck driver. The audio recording protects my dad in case he tells the driver the bridge or power lines is too low, or something like that. If the driver causes a mess and then claims my dad didn't tell him, there is evidence.

The video recorders cover his ass in case of an accident, he has it on video. He had one of those magnetic signs made for the back of his tailgate that says "Smile, you're on camera."
He actually used it once when a lady in a Buick tried to pass him and the tractor trailer hauling the oversize load. she run off the road into the ditch, no personal injury luckily. Then she claimed he ran her off the road and filed a claim against his insurance. He emailed the video to his insurance company and never heard from her again.
 

Ropadope

eHarmony Reject
A close friend of mine, ret U.S Army Special Forces, keeps a small tape recorder with him at all times when carrying openly.

You should hear a couple of his encounters on that little audio recorder. :pleasantry:
 

dvnfly

New member
about the states that require duel conscent. Think of it this way, if the courts won't use it the press most definetly will. Either way the bad apple will be exposed and I don't know of anyplace that will ignore the public outcry and push for charges. You could always say your press, 1 Amendment etc...
 

rayven

New member
These following states require the consent of all the parties being recorded for it to be legal. If your state is not listed here than you can legally record in public without the consent of the other parties.

ALL PARTIES IN THE CONVERSATION MUST CONSENT:
California
Connecticuit
Florida
Illinois
Maryland
Massachusetts
Michigan
Montanna
Nevada
New Hampshire
Pennsylvania
Washington

ONE PARTY IN THE CONVERSATION MUST CONSENT
All the others







Source: Link Removed

My state (Pennsylvania) is listed here, and what you say isn't accurate. All parties must be informed if there is no reasonable expectation of privacy. In public, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy, so you can record audio and video, especially if the other party knows about it.

There was a case in a place called Carlisle, PA where the passenger of a car was recording a cop during a traffic stop. He was arrested, and the charges were eventually dropped. The police later stated that a person has the right to record police since police have the right to record citizens.

Washington had a similar issue. A man recorded a police chief as the chief sat in his car talking to dispatchers and was arrested for the same type of law. It went to federal court, and here is a quote from that case "Wardlaw (the judge) also held that Nelson (the police chief) had no reasonable expectation of privacy because he knowingly exposed his conversation to the public. " Here's a link: Link Removed

So yes, while you risk arrest, it likely won't hold and you would then be able to sue for violations of 1st and 4th amendment rights, among others. If the officer has no reasonable expectation of privacy, and considering that he is an on-duty public officer doing public things, you can audio and video record without permission in any state.
 

Saber

Dan Ortego
Yes, it would be nice to have a recording device in those rare instances. Unfortunately, the cost and upkeep is simply not feasible for me. However, I know several users on the various speed radar forums that have these in numbers. I suppose it’s all about priorities and favorite past-times. I seem to be one hobby short of the poorhouse so I’ll just stick to guns n’ roses and lay low.
 

ramrunnr

New member
I carry a small Olympus digital recorder everywhere I go and I have it running all day. (it will record about 260 hours) If nothing happens I just erase it and go again tomorrow. I can trim the recording and burn it to CD with my computer if I need to save something.
 

nhcruffler

New member
First of all I want to say Hello from New Hampshire. Looks like you guys have a nice forum here. I have had my CCW ( we just call it a pistol permit ) for ten years now. Never had to pay a dime to exercise my 2nd Ammendment right. As for this topic. From personal experience I think this would be a great idea. There are way too many cowboys out there that do not give a hoot about your rights as a citizen. Don't get me wrong. One of my brothers has been a city cop for 20yrs, another has been a part time city cop for 25 yrs, another brother has been a Corrections officer for 10 yrs as I was also. But , as most of us know, there are those that give all a bad name. I can personally tell at least three stories that I was minding my own and was unduly harassed by local cops. Am I a criminal because I "accidentally " left the recorder on? I find it hard for anyone to expect privacy when two people are talking along side the road.
 

eagleks

New member
Long story I won't bore you with, but a case I worked and several conversations were recorded because some State Rep's (not law enforcement) were way out of line and destroying some people's lives in the process. So, when in Court, and after they had "told their story" on the events, findings, recommendations, etc. to the Court, the atty asked them if they had ever threatened X, Y, Z, etc... if they didn't comply with what they wanted, and asked if have they ever said this or that.... and on and on... to which they adamantly denied ever doing. I mean , who could even suggest such a thing ?

Then the attorney asked if they would like to change any of their testimony and if it was all accurate. They had all stated "of course it was". After questioning the last one of them, the attorney pulled out 12 double sided tapes .... informed the present witness of what perjury was and the penalities, and that he would submit them for evidence as well as the transcripts of them, with certain "highlights" which proved that they all actually did ALL of the above and lied about it all on the stand. This person retracted their statements immediately, fessed up and told how the DA, a State worker and them had conspired.... lied, made up stories, threatened folks if they didn't "go along", etc. One person they had been threatening to make life tough for was a Doctor, if they didn't testify and say what they wanted them to in certain court cases. The Doctor, with our evidence, would have lost their license if they did not tell the truth and come clean .... as we had set them up with some examinations where the individual was then examined after their visit with this Doctor, by 3 other independent Doctors, who's findings were quite different than what the Doctor was reporting. This Doctor was writing what she was told to write by these workers. It got interesting. All due to taping some conversations and meetings.

They all lost their jobs, and several other cases they had been involved in where the findings depended upon their testimony were reviewed, and reversed.

Some times there are 'a few' bad people in the system, and sometimes, it is great to watch true justice and the "truth" come to the surface.
 

ems_kws

New member
I have thought about one of those digital recorders. I usually give a LEO my license, CCW permit and attorney's card. Maybe I should print up a little card informing them that they may be recorded. I would think that since the supreme court has ruled that there is no expectation of privacy, if a lower court ,even in an all parties must consent state, throws out the recording a higher court could side for the recording. Case law seems to go a long way even if it was contrary to the written law on the books. Just hope I'm not the one that has to fight that battle. There is a lot of food for thought in this thread.
 
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Chief_Engineer

New member
Oregon law is a little more complex than stated. Be very careful when recording in this state. the law that can become an issue has been listed. There are a few other exceptions. There are also Cities that have what could be considered as having more stringent criteria.

ORS 165.540 Obtaining contents of communications.
(1) Except as otherwise provided in ORS 133.724 or 133.726 or subsections (2) to (7) of this section, a person may not:

(a) Obtain or attempt to obtain the whole or any part of a telecommunication or a radio communication to which the person is not a participant, by means of any device, contrivance, machine or apparatus, whether electrical, mechanical, manual or otherwise, unless consent is given by at least one participant.

(c) Obtain or attempt to obtain the whole or any part of a conversation by means of any device, contrivance, machine or apparatus, whether electrical, mechanical, manual or otherwise, if not all participants in the conversation are specifically informed that their conversation is being obtained.

(5) The prohibitions in subsection (1)(c) of this section do not apply to:

(a) A person who records a conversation during a felony that endangers human life;

(8) Violation of subsection (1) or (2)(b) of this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
 

VAPA

New member
Having digital recorders is a necessity that some call the "right to keep and bear camera." Unfortunately it's not a case of one or two bad apples and those who don't record instances with LEO do so at their own peril. All it takes is one LEO's "bad day" or need to make a quota to result in severe harm to you. Happens all the time. The website VeteransAgainstPoliceAbuse.Org discusses some good car recording devices and you can see one of those camera systems catching LEO's in that act of a fourth amendment violation below. The Border Patrol agents in this video called the driver's military supervisor and sent a three page letter complaining about the driver's actions. The driver would have been defenseless explaining the situation had it not been for five cameras installed in his vehicle.

YouTube - Border Patrol (Uvalde, TX) Violation of Fourth Amendment - 18 March 2010
 

Mobuck

New member
I'll bet if you ask the cop if he consents to being recorded, a lot of crap will cease. That's what I did when the Hwy Patrol was hassling me about overwidth loads.
 

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