Updates on H. 3930

[Reba]

South Carolina House passes bill granting carry of handguns without a permit


COLUMBIA — The South Carolina House of Representatives on Wednesday approved a bill that would allow residents to carry a gun, openly or concealed, without getting a weapons permit.

The controversial bill passed the chamber 64-46 after more than three hours of debate.

If approved by the Senate and signed into law, anyone who is legally allowed to buy a gun to do so without getting a state permit. The bill would keep the states concealed weapons permit program in place so South Carolinians could carry their guns in other state. . .

The House also approved a bill 80-8 that would allow first responders to carry guns on school property after a one-week training program....

The rest of the story:

House passes bill for handguns


I wonder how it will do in the Senate?

I would feel safer if more people carrying in SC were better trained. Without the minimal training that we undergo to get a CCP, we'll have even more careless people handling guns. We need to start safe gun handling training of school age children, and bring back the high school gun clubs.

 

[Reba]

More updates:

South Carolina Gov. Henry McMaster supports bill that would grant carry of handguns without a permit

"Gov. Henry McMaster said Friday he would sign a law granting open, permit-less carry of weapons if it passes the General Assembly...."

Gov. McMaster supports bill


Constitutional carry bills have South Carolina restaurant and bar workers, law enforcement worried


"Grant Brown is worried. On any given night he deals with the possibility of rowdy crowds and intoxicated patrons at the Palace Hotel and The Commodore — popular East Side Charleston bars where he heads security. The last thing he wants is for weapons to be thrown into the mix.

A trio of laws being proposed in the S.C. General Assembly that would allow for the permitless carrying of firearms, if passed, could do just that...."

SC restaurant and bar workers are worried

 

[Reba]

Bill granting permit-less gun carry advances in South Carolina Senate while legislation closing 'Charleston loophole' stalls for the year


May 2, 2017
COLUMBIA — A bill that would allow South Carolinians to carry their guns openly without getting a permit continued through the Legislature Tuesday, while a proposal aiming to close the so-called Charleston loophole that is supposed to keep guns out the hands of criminals has stalled for the year....

More:

Bill granting permit-less gun carry advances in South Carolina Senate while legislation closing 'Charleston loophole' stalls for the year | Palmetto Politics | postandcourier.com

 

[BluesStringer]

I would feel safer if more people carrying in SC were better trained. Without the minimal training that we undergo to get a CCP, we'll have even more careless people handling guns. We need to start safe gun handling training of school age children, and bring back the high school gun clubs.

You'd be hard-pressed to demonstrate via statistical data the premise in bold above. "Minimal training" isn't training at all. It amounts to little more than proving to someone who's own qualifications to "train" should be suspect, that the "trainee" knows which end to hold, and which end to point away from themselves. And while that line is intentionally sarcastic, it is not much, if any, of an exaggeration.

"Careless people" will still be careless people after they've received "minimal training." Minimally trained is untrained. The only way to train carelessness out of careless people is repetition, which can't be achieved if either the "curriculum" or the time allotted is minimal in its scope.

I was on the last-ever rifle team at my high school. I'm all for bringing firearms and safety classes and shooting team sports back into schools. I'm not sure if your suggestion above is to mandate training of children in schools, but if that is what you mean, I don't think that's the way to go. The team I was on was completely voluntary and team members had to have permission from their parents to participate. Mandates reduce parents' rights. Voluntarism protects those rights.

To be clear - it's not that I'm against training in any way, shape, manner or form. It's that I'm against government inserting itself between our rights and our ability to exercise them. Unless there is compelling statistical data showing that the minimal training is effective at reducing negligent discharges, injuries or death such that it should impair or impede the right to keep and bear arms, then mandatory training is nothing less than an unnecessary roadblock to enjoying our rights as we, individually, see fit. I believe if you'd research it to the best of your ability, you'd find no data demonstrating anything of the kind.

Blues

 

[Reba]

You'd be hard-pressed to demonstrate via statistical data the premise in bold above. "Minimal training" isn't training at all. It amounts to little more than proving to someone who's own qualifications to "train" should be suspect, that the "trainee" knows which end to hold, and which end to point away from themselves. And while that line is intentionally sarcastic, it is not much, if any, of an exaggeration.

I get what you're saying. By minimal training I mean at least they are taught (in the classes that I've observed) basic safe handling of guns and basic "mechanics" of gun operation.

"Careless people" will still be careless people after they've received "minimal training." Minimally trained is untrained. The only way to train carelessness out of careless people is repetition, which can't be achieved if either the "curriculum" or the time allotted is minimal in its scope.

Got it. My point is, without some kind of instruction, novice gun owners don't even know which behaviors are careless or not. Yes, there are people in this society who don't realize (without instruction) that it's dangerous to hold a gun with finger on trigger, that it matters which ammunition you load, that just sticking a gun into your waistband without a holster is fine, or just toss it loose into a purse, that guns never need to be cleaned, and brandishing is hunky-dory. Sure, careless people will continue to do stupid stuff after instruction but at least conscientious people will at least try to do things correctly if they are taught what that means.

I was on the last-ever rifle team at my high school. I'm all for bringing firearms and safety classes and shooting team sports back into schools. I'm not sure if your suggestion above is to mandate training of children in schools, but if that is what you mean, I don't think that's the way to go. The team I was on was completely voluntary and team members had to have permission from their parents to participate. Mandates reduce parents' rights. Voluntarism protects those rights.

I would like to see instruction as highly encouraged but voluntary.

My high schools also had girls and boys rifle teams.

To be clear - it's not that I'm against training in any way, shape, manner or form. It's that I'm against government inserting itself between our rights and our ability to exercise them. Unless there is compelling statistical data showing that the minimal training is effective at reducing negligent discharges, injuries or death such that it should impair or impede the right to keep and bear arms, then mandatory training is nothing less than an unnecessary roadblock to enjoying our rights as we, individually, see fit. I believe if you'd research it to the best of your ability, you'd find no data demonstrating anything of the kind.

Blues

Ideas on how to increase safe gun handling without government intervention (which I'm not promoting)? Maybe positive incentives?

Maybe there is nothing that can be done about non-motivated gun owners? I don't know.

 

[BluesStringer]

Ideas on how to increase safe gun handling without government intervention (which I'm not promoting)? Maybe positive incentives?

Maybe there is nothing that can be done about non-motivated gun owners? I don't know.

Well, the easiest thing I've found that I can do is to open carry. I can't say for positive that it has any affect, but just like it being a possible deterrent to victimizers, it has the potential to destigmatize guns to the public. Seeing someone walk around with a gun showing like it's as natural as wearing pants certainly has the potential to destigmatize and normalize guns, and the more people who do it, the more potential for those positive effects coming to fruition there is.

I'm not a fan of NRA, but since they're around and generating millions of dollars in revenue per year, it seems to me that its members should be trying to get them to advertise youth training programs, maybe even fund them in totality in poorer neighborhoods. I started taking NRA safety courses at age 8, as did all my neighborhood buddies. The courses we attended were sponsored by the YMCA, and held at the City police shooting range, which itself was open to the public for regular posted hours, which I believe was six days a week. Police training hours were either morning or night, and public hours were in between. GOA and SAF should combine forces with NRA and make youth programs a ubiquitous feature of American life if they really cared about two things; educating and making gun owners safer from very early age, and normalizing the idea of guns as being a positive thing for our society. But see, I don't think they care that much about that kind of stuff. For them, gun rights is a business, and as long as government keeps the clamps on those rights, business is good. Guess that's kind of another topic, but generally-speaking, the .orgs that portray that they're for our rights should be doing more to educate youngins' about those rights.

I think there's lots that can be done about non-motivated gun owners. I just don't think government is what should be the answer, and I also don't think the kind of minimal training that I've read about in other states, which we don't have a requirement for here in Bama BTW, does a lick of good even if it were voluntary and devoid of government mandates. Real training is fun as all get-out, but it's too expensive for a lot of people to afford. It would be less expensive if more people were taking courses, but other than making sure that shooters in a given area knows there's a good local training academy, I don't know how to make taking the course more attractive to more people. But then, I'm not a marketer. Surely there are ways, I just don't know what they are. Anything that has people and/or private .orgs cooperating to make training easier to find, affordable, and most of all, voluntary, is a step in the right direction. It was easy and safe for me to get started very early in life. I see no reason why it couldn't be again for this and upcoming generations.

Blues

 

[Bikenut]

↑↑↑ Well said Blues!! ↑↑↑

 

[AndeyHall]

Any updates on the likelihood of this going through?

 

[Reba]

Related poll:

https://www.usacarry.com/forums/sou...enate-april-2017-a-post621664.html#post621664

 

[Old_Coyote]

South Carolina House passes bill granting carry of handguns without a permit

...
I would feel safer if more people carrying in SC were better trained. Without the minimal training that we undergo to get a CCP, we'll have even more careless people handling guns. We need to start safe gun handling training of school age children, and bring back the high school gun clubs.

I might be inclined to agree with you if South Carolina was an urban, gun controlled state, where firearms familiarity had vanished from common knowledge. Without common knowledge, there can be no common sense. But, SC is not such a state. I do agree if this passes, the should be a public service ad campaign promoting firearms safety, and familiarization with the laws, perhaps this will bring back increased interest in firearms related activities at school, and prompt firearms safety classes in primary school. All of these would be good things, but most folks in South Carolina are at least passingly familiar with them already. Those who will abuse their rights already do so. Just look at the crime rates in Charleston, Columbia and Greenville metro areas and SC, suburban Charlotte. They already give South Carolina a black eye.

I say it is about time. There has been one version of this bill or another in the Judiciary committee for over 15 years that I know of. Sadly, it won't be happening now, but this will energize a push for next year. Incrementally, taking back our rights.

 

[bornthor]

So I see this is still waiting in the Senate. Is there any way to tell what is happening or what's keeping this from going forward?

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