good song kind of catchy .... United Breaks Guitars
United airlines....
- Thread starter Sheldon
- Start date
Just a little CNN Follow up:
YouTube - CNN: Man Goes After United Airlines On YouTube [United Breaks Guitars]
YouTube - CNN: Man Goes After United Airlines On YouTube [United Breaks Guitars]
mistertaco
New member
Dave Carroll seems like a nice guy and writes some good music; however, professional musicians have flight cases for there gear. His plight could have been avoided if he was wise to protecting precious instruments correctly. UA is getting sort of a bad rap on this one in particular.
Some how I doubt that, having flown multiple times I have witnessed how heavy handed baggage handlers can get, and have seen them open luggage on the line and paw through peoples belongings, that is why shrink wrapping luggage has become popular....
My daughter had new Samsonite luggage with the TSA locks when she departed for her duty station in Korea, the Baggage handlers ripped them off to see what they could steal and that act took at the very least a pry bar.... and no the airlines took no responsibility for this act her damaged luggage or missing stuff either....
some of them are honest but if you want a real eye opener go to the lost and damaged baggage claim some time and watch all the people there with complaints... I did while my daughter was home on leave last Christmas, they lost all her clothes for about a week, one gal was up here from the south and all her winter stuff was gone, she was in tears and her 3 year old had no coat here in Mi in the middle of December..... they were too bad for you, next......
My daughter had new Samsonite luggage with the TSA locks when she departed for her duty station in Korea, the Baggage handlers ripped them off to see what they could steal and that act took at the very least a pry bar.... and no the airlines took no responsibility for this act her damaged luggage or missing stuff either....
some of them are honest but if you want a real eye opener go to the lost and damaged baggage claim some time and watch all the people there with complaints... I did while my daughter was home on leave last Christmas, they lost all her clothes for about a week, one gal was up here from the south and all her winter stuff was gone, she was in tears and her 3 year old had no coat here in Mi in the middle of December..... they were too bad for you, next......
mistertaco
New member
No doubt baggage gets tossed around. I'd like folks to look deeper into the situation and not make judgement calls based on personal experience with airlines, rather how they would have left their home with a delicate instrument in the first place.
Carroll was just using a regular hard shell case with "padding". This is not sufficient for touring or travel (obviously). Flight cases, which he wasn't using, protect to a much higher degree and are lockable. We can sit, stand, tip 'em over, drop them and the guitars inside are perfectly fine. But may go out of tune
It's akin to a nylon/zipper gun bag to a pelican case. And sticking a delicate instrument in the nylon one and expect it to be fine after being handled by airlines, trains or even roadies!
Here's what gets me. Personal responsiblity. If Dave Carroll took measures in advance, by using equipment that other professionals use, he'd be fine. Instead, he's exploiting what we already know is an industry sore spot to people for personal gain.
Carroll was just using a regular hard shell case with "padding". This is not sufficient for touring or travel (obviously). Flight cases, which he wasn't using, protect to a much higher degree and are lockable. We can sit, stand, tip 'em over, drop them and the guitars inside are perfectly fine. But may go out of tune
It's akin to a nylon/zipper gun bag to a pelican case. And sticking a delicate instrument in the nylon one and expect it to be fine after being handled by airlines, trains or even roadies!
Here's what gets me. Personal responsiblity. If Dave Carroll took measures in advance, by using equipment that other professionals use, he'd be fine. Instead, he's exploiting what we already know is an industry sore spot to people for personal gain.
+1! There is absolutely no respect for other peoples property. We have had "Stuff" stolen and luggage damaged to the point it had to be replaced. :angry:
The luggage my daughter had was brand new, I had bought her Samsonite some of the toughest stuff on the market and they destroyed it the first time she used it....
So just what chance would a hardened guitar case have.... The one in the video was just a prop so how do we know he did not use one.....
mistertaco
New member
Right, right. His post on his blog said, "... my hard case out of the padded protective exterior case ..."
Dave Carroll on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Downloads
The padded exterior case he mentions is a nylon cover.
Basically, he had this (the hard case):
SKB 18 Dreadnought Case from zZounds.com!
Inside of this (the padded protective exterior case):
Gator GLDREAD Lightweight Case from zZounds.com!
When he should have used this (FLIGHT cases; what we would use for amplifiers and speaker cabinets too)
ProStageGear PSAFC Acoustic Guitar Flight Case with Gig Bag from zZounds.com!
These flight cases are great and withstand a lot of abuse of harried roadies and specifically baggage handlers; while still protecting the contents inside. My bicycles have a similar case style. Very, very rugged. Yes, they can be thrown, dropped, etc ... which is why we use them for travel.
Regular hard shell cases are thin plywood. They can't be thrown or dropped without ruining the integrity of the case. The nylon covers are soft and don't provide any protection other than dust and light scratches.
Dave Carroll on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Downloads
The padded exterior case he mentions is a nylon cover.
Basically, he had this (the hard case):
SKB 18 Dreadnought Case from zZounds.com!
Inside of this (the padded protective exterior case):
Gator GLDREAD Lightweight Case from zZounds.com!
When he should have used this (FLIGHT cases; what we would use for amplifiers and speaker cabinets too)
ProStageGear PSAFC Acoustic Guitar Flight Case with Gig Bag from zZounds.com!
These flight cases are great and withstand a lot of abuse of harried roadies and specifically baggage handlers; while still protecting the contents inside. My bicycles have a similar case style. Very, very rugged. Yes, they can be thrown, dropped, etc ... which is why we use them for travel.
Regular hard shell cases are thin plywood. They can't be thrown or dropped without ruining the integrity of the case. The nylon covers are soft and don't provide any protection other than dust and light scratches.
mistertaco
New member
Hahaha. Don't buy into the musical instrument marketing crap now TSA locks are locks and that's all; they don't offer protection from damage. If you even look at OEM cases they break. Believe me. I know (and so does Dave Carroll now)
He did not pack well for this trip.
P.S. I'm not disputing UA was rough on the baggage. I'm just saying it could have been prevented by using industry standard measures like Flight Cases, which is made specifically for flight.
Or are you just breakin' my balls on this? I'm not part of the airline industry for sakes!
TSA locks are locks and that's all; they don't offer protection from damage. If you even look at OEM cases they break. Believe me. I know (and so does Dave Carroll now)He did not pack well for this trip.
P.S. I'm not disputing UA was rough on the baggage. I'm just saying it could have been prevented by using industry standard measures like Flight Cases, which is made specifically for flight.
Or are you just breakin' my balls on this?
I'm not part of the airline industry for sakes!
come-and-take-it-FL
Member
I think the point is... Carroll took measures to secure his equipment for travel and while in transit UA baggage handlers destroyed the contents of the secured package. UA has some responsibility in the matter, just as Carroll had a responsibility to secure his gear.
I too travel a great deal with my 614-CE Taylor—and DO NOT check my guitar for fear of this sort of situation. I have done tours internationally and across the UK as well as all over the United States and have never had an issue with my guitar—but, it’s typically in a coat closet inside the cabin and has been handled with care from start to finish!
I’m guessing Carroll may have learned some lessons and will likely take extra precautions in packing his gear next time. BUT, more than likely those precautions will most definitely include NOT traveling via UA ever again!
UA should have done more to bring the matter to a healthy conclusion for Carroll as well as for the sake of their own reputation! Not only have they lost Carroll as a customer, they’ve likely lost a whole bunch more by their handling of this matter.
I too travel a great deal with my 614-CE Taylor—and DO NOT check my guitar for fear of this sort of situation. I have done tours internationally and across the UK as well as all over the United States and have never had an issue with my guitar—but, it’s typically in a coat closet inside the cabin and has been handled with care from start to finish!
I’m guessing Carroll may have learned some lessons and will likely take extra precautions in packing his gear next time. BUT, more than likely those precautions will most definitely include NOT traveling via UA ever again!
UA should have done more to bring the matter to a healthy conclusion for Carroll as well as for the sake of their own reputation! Not only have they lost Carroll as a customer, they’ve likely lost a whole bunch more by their handling of this matter.
Btdt
TSA locks are usually only placed on containers that are intended for items that are to be sent by air such as luggage, otherwise it is an added expense to the cost of the case.
Yes I know all an TSA lock is one that has a key override so it can be opened and inspected by a authorized person, but it still adds expense to the end cost and companies interested in the bottom line will not add cost to a product on purpose.
But there was a time not so long ago that people used plastic trash bags to ship their stuff by air and it would arrive undamaged and whole, not so today, so they are either using new equipment, or they are treating people stuff as roughly as we assume they are.
Having flown enough times and watching the baggage handlers there is no excuse for rough handling of luggage, even the toss they do is not that abusive and would not damage anything packed in any reasonable manner, a taped cardboard box could easily survive this, and to with such air carriers as FEX EX, UPS, and USPS air.... and they handle mass quantities of items by hand daily.....
That case with yet a inner case should have been enough to protect what it was designed to. I have seen cases such as these (happened to me) fall out of a unsecured cargo van (idiot forgot to lock the door) at 50+ MPH crash roll and skid across the pavement and yet leave the contents undamaged!!!
So what does this say as to just what United's monkey crew did to his case??? They beat the living daylights out of it with out regard or just to see what was in it and if it was worth becoming "lost luggage".... Well maybe it was before but it wasn't after they beat it open.....
I guess my primary point here is the airlines as a whole are hiring a larger number of unskilled labor that often uses their job to supplement their income, yes they have been caught and it makes the news, but only after so many have raised so much noise to they actually investigate and find out their people never ran an background check on the bozo before they hired them, and often have a criminal record.
AKA Dropped it, whoops, dropped it again, whoops, damn it didn't open slam dropped it again whoops it opened, now I have to inspect it...... and they work in gangs like this..... after all robbery doesn't always happen just in the parking lots....
TSA locks are usually only placed on containers that are intended for items that are to be sent by air such as luggage, otherwise it is an added expense to the cost of the case.
Yes I know all an TSA lock is one that has a key override so it can be opened and inspected by a authorized person, but it still adds expense to the end cost and companies interested in the bottom line will not add cost to a product on purpose.
But there was a time not so long ago that people used plastic trash bags to ship their stuff by air and it would arrive undamaged and whole, not so today, so they are either using new equipment, or they are treating people stuff as roughly as we assume they are.
Having flown enough times and watching the baggage handlers there is no excuse for rough handling of luggage, even the toss they do is not that abusive and would not damage anything packed in any reasonable manner, a taped cardboard box could easily survive this, and to with such air carriers as FEX EX, UPS, and USPS air.... and they handle mass quantities of items by hand daily.....
That case with yet a inner case should have been enough to protect what it was designed to. I have seen cases such as these (happened to me) fall out of a unsecured cargo van (idiot forgot to lock the door) at 50+ MPH crash roll and skid across the pavement and yet leave the contents undamaged!!!
So what does this say as to just what United's monkey crew did to his case??? They beat the living daylights out of it with out regard or just to see what was in it and if it was worth becoming "lost luggage".... Well maybe it was before but it wasn't after they beat it open.....
I guess my primary point here is the airlines as a whole are hiring a larger number of unskilled labor that often uses their job to supplement their income, yes they have been caught and it makes the news, but only after so many have raised so much noise to they actually investigate and find out their people never ran an background check on the bozo before they hired them, and often have a criminal record.
AKA Dropped it, whoops, dropped it again, whoops, damn it didn't open slam dropped it again whoops it opened, now I have to inspect it...... and they work in gangs like this..... after all robbery doesn't always happen just in the parking lots....
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